UK Politics: Come See The Clowns, And Their Lapdogs Too

[A wilding]

@Heartofice

So you would phrase the question as: why were disproportionately few of Johnson's senior cabinet members white men?

But I think you misread my post. I said nothing at all about "Tory voters". I was looking at the makeup of the actual Tory party, which is unquestionably overpopulated with white men compared to the rest of the country..

[Spockydog]

IT'S THE CUNTPOCALYPSE!

 

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

IT'S THE CUNTPOCALYPSE!

 

Good for them. Finally telling the truth. 

[Heartofice]

30 minutes ago, A wilding said:

@Heartofice

So you would phrase the question as: why were disproportionately few of Johnson's senior cabinet members white men?

What I'm getting at is that there was clearly a drive to increase diversity in the cabinet, and it was successful. It also doesn't seem to have created any sort of backlash or issues with voters or those within the Tory party, in fact it's an almost unnoticed fact. Which kind of chimes quite well with a more conservative view of equality, as in, to not concentrate on race or gender but judge people based on what they do and the quality of their character (though many of the characters within that party would fail any quality checks!) 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Not to mention the quality of their work and the character of the people in the cabinet. Which is quite an indictment for the conservative party.

[DanteGabriel]

12 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What I'm getting at is that there was clearly a drive to increase diversity in the cabinet, and it was successful. It also doesn't seem to have created any sort of backlash or issues with voters or those within the Tory party, in fact it's an almost unnoticed fact. Which kind of chimes quite well with a more conservative view of equality, as in, to not concentrate on race or gender but judge people based on what they do and the quality of their character (though many of the characters within that party would fail any quality checks!) 

 

So all those jackasses are at the top of government due to merit?

[Derfel Cadarn]

The cabinet has been quite diverse, however money seems to be the metric they look at. Either rich themselves (some are bankers who made a killing in the 2008 financial crisis) or married to lots of money.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

So all those jackasses are at the top of government due to merit?

Now let's be fair Dante, conservatives, both in the US and UK, seem to really find a lot of merit in minorities who are perfectly fine being super cruel to other minorities, see Patel and Rwanda relocation. 

[DanteGabriel]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Now let's be fair Dante, conservatives, both in the US and UK, seem to really find a lot of merit in minorities who are perfectly fine being super cruel to other minorities, see Patel and Rwanda relocation. 

I was going to bring up Clarence Thomas, myself.

But yeah, I don't see how "clearly a drive to increase diversity" works with "not to concentrate on race or gender." I thought diversity drives were only for woke cancellistas.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I was going to bring up Clarence Thomas, myself.

Thomas is a unique case. A retired law professor had the perfect quote about him (paraphrasing, wish I could remember his name), "Thomas is egalitarian in a sense, he hates everyone equally."

Quote

But yeah, I don't see how "clearly a drive to increase diversity" works with "not to concentrate on race or gender." I thought diversity drives were only for woke cancellistas.

Let's deconstruct this because it's important. Conservatives are very actively recruiting minorities to increase diversity, but they're very much looking for minorities who do not share the majority views of their communities. This is the slight of hand at play.

[Spockydog]

nvm

[Heartofice]

20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Let's deconstruct this because it's important. Conservatives are very actively recruiting minorities to increase diversity, but they're very much looking for minorities who do not share the majority views of their communities. This is the slight of hand at play.

Is it? Why pigeon hole peoples views based on the colour of their skin? Sounds pretty racist to me. 

[DaveSumm]

55 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

But yeah, I don't see how "clearly a drive to increase diversity" works with "not to concentrate on race or gender." I thought diversity drives were only for woke cancellistas.

I guess in theory it’d be “we’re overwhelming white and male > we shouldn’t be if we were merit based > let’s be merit based > more diverse Tory party”. Or more crudely, they just tried to stop being racist/sexist. You don’t have to use positive discrimination to get diversity (though I’m not claiming that’s not possibly a factor in this case).

[Heartofice]

My point was that Tory voters and party members are not put off voting for people from minorities or women, because they are mostly more interested in what those candidates do than their demographic.

I'm sure the diversity drive was a purposeful move to improve the Tories image above all things. I don't think we can blame such a drive for the poor quality of candidate though, it's not like there are a bunch of white male Tories who are obviously better than the ones we've been presented with.

[DanteGabriel]

36 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Uncle Tom's Cabinet.

In general it is wise to avoid use of that term, as it plays into the bad-faith arguments of the "no, the left are the real racists" crowd. To wit:

30 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Is it? Why pigeon hole peoples views based on the colour of their skin? Sounds pretty racist to me. 

Observing someone does not have the same views as the majority of their community is not pigeon-holing, but thank you for that utterly predictable attempt at "the people who notice race are the real racists" judo, one post after you spoke approvingly of a "clear drive to increase diversity."

[DanteGabriel]

14 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I guess in theory it’d be “we’re overwhelming white and male > we shouldn’t be if we were merit based > let’s be merit based > more diverse Tory party”. Or more crudely, they just tried to stop being racist/sexist. You don’t have to use positive discrimination to get diversity (though I’m not claiming that’s not possibly a factor in this case).

This all is a very reasonable explanation for what we have seen from the Tories, but it does seem to suggest that, in order to address racial inequality, one might have to pay attention to people's races, much to the chagrin of the "I don't see race and those who do are the real racists" crowd.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

36 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Is it? Why pigeon hole peoples views based on the colour of their skin? Sounds pretty racist to me. 

That's not how the word racist works, like at all.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

This all is a very reasonable explanation for what we have seen from the Tories, but it does seem to suggest that, in order to address racial inequality, one might have to pay attention to people's races, much to the chagrin of the "I don't see race and those who do are the real racists" crowd.

It's important to point out when one says they don't see race they're denying people their lived experiences as this sentiment pretty exclusively comes from a perspective that doesn't have to consider race because they're in the majority.

[BigFatCoward]

To be fair to sexist racists, this current tory party are kind of proving their point (or would be if the white men weren't also utterly shite). 

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's not how the word racist works, like at all.

Making sweeping judgements based on the colour of peoples skin? Yeah looks kinda racist to me.
 

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's important to point out when one says they don't see race they're denying people their lived experiences as this sentiment pretty exclusively comes from a perspective that doesn't have to consider race because they're in the majority.

Ugh.