Will Lady Stoneheart save Jon

[Jesse17Renee]

I've seen nearly nothing on any predictions outside of Melisandre to be the one to resurrect Jon Snow. So ... hear me out... In the books, it is made clear that Melisandra does not know how to resurrect the dead and has never succeeded in doing that. We know only one Red priest that has done that. He is now with Lady Stoneheart... who is about to cause the death of Jamie L and Brienne... But what if what Jamie is walking into right now is his dream from AFFC. He is with Brienne. Headed to a dark cave where death awaits him. What if "Rhaegars" ghost does appear.... in the form of Howland Reed. What if Howland Reed is the one to stop Caitlyn by telling her the TRUTH about Jon Snow. Jamie idolized Rhaegar... loved him as a brother... He finds out that the heir to the throne he swore an oath to lives... Or, well.. kinda as I doubt they would know that Jon has been killed. I always wondered if GRRM helped HBO write the scene in S3 where Caitlyn S discusses Jon as a baby and how "everything that has happened up to this point is because she couldn't love a motherless child." At this point she believes that Bran and Rickon were left to die in Winterfell by Theon because she had never accepted Jon... Theon would not have been at Robb's side had she accepted Jon. Bran would not have been alone, had she accepted Jon... At this point I believe that Howland will demand they go "retrieve" Jon, as he is the Targaryen Heir to Westeros and Robb's heir apparent according to the letter Robb sent out that showed his "will".. which Howland will have gotten ahold of. At this point I believe Jamie will be offered the Night's Watch... they will travel there... with Lady Stoneheart who will then give Jon the Kiss of life... or Lady Stone heart will stay in the Riverlands hunting the Freys and the Red Priest will travel North with Jamie and resurrect Jon.... If Lady Stoneheart does not go... I believe that her fate will lie in Arya's hands.... That Arya will return to Westeros and be the one to stop her mother's vengeful ways....  I've always thought that there are Three Princes that were Promised... Three Azor Ahais.... What if The whole point of all this is Dany... Jamie... and Jon..... The most complex characters... 2 of which are doomed by their past to eventual failure... and one who must "kill the boy"... what if when Jon is resurrected... the Jon we know is dead... This Jon is an actual leader... a strong one... because maybe... this Jon is a Dragon.. 

[Brother Seamus]

sound idea, but not my prediction. I think Arya will travel to westeros early in wow, reunite with Nymeria and through Nymeria have de facto control of the wolfpack. then she will find and join LS and her faction of the BWB. from there they will attack and massacre the freys at the Twins. Jaime will be spared because he will assist in this plan, probably by getting them into the twins.

LS will be killed in the course of the frey massacre, for good this time. arya will become the de facto leader of the LS faction of the BWB and lead them to winterfell upon hearing that rickon is there (having come back from Skagos, with Davos, at the time of or soon after Stannis and the northerners retake winterfell from the boitons).

 

 

[Kyll.Ing.]

I think the main problem here is distance. Lady Stoneheart and her posse are hanging out in the Riverlands, while Jon is at the Wall. Those are very far apart. About 1500 miles according to the map on the wiki, with chokepoints such as Moat Cailin (held by Bolton men) and Winterfell (which is currently experiencing a massive snowstorm, plus Stannis' army camping outside) along the way. It doesn't strike me as likely that Stoneheart and the Brotherhood could make it to the Wall in any reasonable timeframe.

[chrisdaw]

Stoneheart has nothing to do with Jon. These sorts of topics and thoughts only became a thing after the TV show.

[Garlan the Gallant]

Melisandre may not know how to resurrect the dead but Jon is different. His mind is in Ghost. If Melisandre repairs his body like Mirri did to Khal Drogo, he can warg back into his body. They both trained in Ashai, so presumably she knows how to do this. The question is just if she can figure this out, cares enough to help, and who she sacrifices.

[Gilbert Green]

If Jon gets resurrected by Stoneheart, he becomes a demonic zombie like herself.  But Stoneheart is in the wrong place for this.  So I don't expect that to happen.

Mel cannot resurrect.  But she can glamor.  And Jon can warg.  Feeble-minded humans can be warged, and Jon has a feeble-minded prisoner, with Stark features, on hand.   Jon, after receiving the pink letter, realized Mel was right.  The logical thing to do then was to take her warnings seriously, and conspire with Mel how to defeat the prophesy.   So Jon wargs Karstark, and Mel glamors him.  This may have occurred offscreen, during that conspicuous gap in the chapter.

But Karstark, glamoured to look like Jon, will rise as a zombie after Jon's spirit flees.  There will be complications.  I'm not sure what complications.  Maybe Karstark's zombie will take over the Night's Watch.  The Varamyr Sixskins chapter foreshadows this somehow, warning that warging humans leads to zombie complications.

[BlackLightning]

While I do believe that Catelyn and Jon will meet again, I don't think it will be anytime soon.

Although it is a quaint idea for Catelyn to be the one to give Jon the kiss of life and sacrifice herself so that he can live again and save the world, it would have been out of character for Catelyn to do that while alive, much less now that she is - more or less - a hateful zombie.

How would you even get a character such as Lady Stoneheart to develop to the point where she can let go of all her hate and rage and grief to do such a thing for someone who she has always been grieved and outraged by...when she is a character defined by grief, rage and hate?

Not only that, but they are way too far apart (as @Kyll.Ing. said) and their stories and those surrounding them are doing completely different things at the moment...all with different priorities (as @chrisdaw said)

I don't see them getting anywhere near each other until A Dream of Spring...at which point, Jon will alive again, making the whole point moot. In fact, if Jon is hailed as the King of the North and the Riverlands at the expense of the trueborn Starks, Stoneheart would try to kill him. It'd be her worst nightmare come true...and technically, it would be an injustice.

I really hope that that idea comes true just so we get to see how Sansa, Arya and Bran (and maybe even Rickon) will respond to such a crisis.

On 11/17/2022 at 11:21 PM, Gilbert Green said:

If Jon gets resurrected by Stoneheart, he becomes a demonic zombie like herself.  But Stoneheart is in the wrong place for this.  So I don't expect that to happen.

Mel cannot resurrect.  But she can glamor.  And Jon can warg.  Feeble-minded humans can be warged, and Jon has a feeble-minded prisoner, with Stark features, on hand.   Jon, after receiving the pink letter, realized Mel was right.  The logical thing to do then was to take her warnings seriously, and conspire with Mel how to defeat the prophesy.   So Jon wargs Karstark, and Mel glamors him.  This may have occurred offscreen, during that conspicuous gap in the chapter.

But Karstark, glamoured to look like Jon, will rise as a zombie after Jon's spirit flees.  There will be complications.  I'm not sure what complications.  Maybe Karstark's zombie will take over the Night's Watch.  The Varamyr Sixskins chapter foreshadows this somehow, warning that warging humans leads to zombie complications.

Good points.

Except I'm not sure that Stoneheart is a demonic zombie. Was Beric? It's his fires that fuel Catelyn's.

On 11/11/2022 at 2:42 PM, Garlan the Gallant said:

Melisandre may not know how to resurrect the dead but Jon is different. His mind is in Ghost. If Melisandre repairs his body like Mirri did to Khal Drogo, he can warg back into his body. They both trained in Ashai, so presumably she knows how to do this. The question is just if she can figure this out, cares enough to help, and who she sacrifices.

It's not about if she cares enough to help. Melisandre clearly cares. Nor is it a matter of if she can figure it out. I think she will eventually. She has books with her and it seems like she has had the training.

If you ask me, it is a matter of if she can do it correctly.

As for who she sacrifices....enter Princess Shireen. Or maybe it'll be the baby that she thinks is Mance Rayder's son when it's actually Craster's son. And since it is Craster's son, we are back at the question of if Melisandre can do it correctly. Which I don't think she can.

Melisandre is not a fraud. She's good but she's not THAT good. I think that she's going to fuck something up in the process (magic, in GRRM's world, is very difficult and always costly and never in the way that you would expect). I'm not saying that she will bring down the entire Wall but...

[Gilbert Green]

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Except I'm not sure that Stoneheart is a demonic zombie. Was Beric? It's his fires that fuel Catelyn's.

Yeah, i think Beric was a demonic zombie, more or less.  I think GRRM is following the "Pet Sematary" formula, where the initial zombie incarnations are not as obviously demonic.  Which is why humans keep falling for the trap.

GRRM has said that such fire wights are driven by their oaths and mission.  Beric's oaths were very wholesome oaths.  And I think the sinister force animating him did manage to twist and corrupt those oaths.  But it was still limited by them.   Which is why, when the sinister force found a more useful host, it moved on.