House of the Dragon Flood Gates Open

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

That's a rather huge leap of logic since we only know that Aegon relented after a ten year war when he received the letter that caused him to bloody his own hands. I believe the theory the Dornish threatened to execute his child with the Faceless Men. It wasn't for lack of trying to conquer Dorne that Aegon gave up.

He was just beaten and realized he had no avenue of success.

That's a ridiculous assertion. Aegon offered him a perfectly valid marriage proposal in his kinsman and second in command. And I'm getting some weird back and forth here. "Aegon is never the kind of guy to freak out/No sane man would do what Aegon did."

Luck had nothing to do with sensible tactics. The Targaryens just had to lure their enemies on the open field of battle and then fry them. They only had to make a few careful examples like Harrenhal to show they had no defense. Which is basically the situation with all of the lords. The targaryens can destroy any and every noble house of Westeros. It's only Dorne where they can hide indefinitely.

And the Vale's situation is that they had the heir. If they didn't surrender, well, they had the heir.

 

I think that there are ways of fighting dragons, but you have to take advantage of terrain, weather, be willing to take casualties, and be in it for the long haul, and from the POV of most lords, why bother? If the Targaryens are willing not just to tolerate, but to convert to your religion, and confirm your titles and estates,  pledging fealty is the best option.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

@SFDanny The official character description on the HBO website reads:

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Of Dornish descent, Ser Criston is the common-born son of the steward to the Lord of Blackhaven. He has no claim to land or titles; all he has to his name is his honor and his preternatural skill with a sword.

They keep the same backstory as the in the books but added that somehow Criston has some Dornish blood in him. We don't know to what extent, maybe his mother was dornish, maybe his grandfather, etc. That should be explained by the show itself in due time.

The actor playing Criston, Fabien Frankel, has a french mother and an english father originally from india, maybe they just wanted his character to reflect his mixed background ? I don't know.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

8 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Culturally and politically all of Westeros is a savage backwater wilderness.

As others have pointed out, it didn't stop William the Conqueror from invading England.

Couldn't Aegon have wanted to turn the backwater Westeros into a flourishing empire?

[C.T. Phipps]

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

As others have pointed out, it didn't stop William the Conqueror from invading England.

Couldn't Aegon have wanted to turn the backwater Westeros into a flourishing empire?

Which they did, I point out.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

As others have pointed out, it didn't stop William the Conqueror from invading England.

Couldn't Aegon have wanted to turn the backwater Westeros into a flourishing empire?

England in 1066 was rather more advanced than Normandy was.

[C.T. Phipps]

10 minutes ago, SeanF said:

England in 1066 was rather more advanced than Normandy was.

England was also a backward possession of the French Plantagenet dynasty.

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think it could work in the books because it would mean Aegon tried to save the world only for his family to destroy itself. In the show it doesn’t work because the realm didn’t need to unite to defeat the WW. All they needed was for Arya to wander home before the attack started. Daenerys ended up—inadvertently—helping the WW by bringing them a dragon.

In retrospect, the most narratively satisfying way to defeat the Night King would have been for Jaime to have killed him while defending Bran. He was the only person convinced by the wight hunt to go north.

Was that the worst part of the entire series?  The notion that an existential threat, against which all political concerns were supposedly trivial, could be destroyed by a teenager springing out of a tree?

The books only make sense if the threat from the Others is the real deal.  And the character arcs of Jon and Dany (and the story of the Starks and Targaryens) only make sense if they both have some big part to play in ending that threat.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

14 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

What I find interesting (I guess) in all this discussion is that it all started with GRRM himself.

 

13 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

What if GRRM was planning this for years?

That doesn't make the idea itself any better. Aegon being an altruistic savior of mankind instead of an ambitious warlord isn't going to sit well with everyone.

[C.T. Phipps]

50 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Was that the worst part of the entire series?  The notion that an existential threat, against which all political concerns were supposedly trivial, could be destroyed by a teenager springing out of a tree?

The books only make sense if the threat from the Others is the real deal.  And the character arcs of Jon and Dany (and the story of the Starks and Targaryens) only make sense if they both have some big part to play in ending that threat.

I admit, this is my "I am a writer and I write things" but I thought it was going to be revealed Bran's attitude was because he was going to use himself as bait, let himself by killed by the Night King, and let that be the way the Night King was backstabbed by Faceless Arya.

Which would have lended it a sufficient gravity.

[SeanF]

3 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I admit, this is my "I am a writer and I write things" but I thought it was going to be revealed Bran's attitude was because he was going to use himself as bait, let himself by killed by the Night King, and let that be the way the Night King was backstabbed by Faceless Arya.

Which would have lended it a sufficient gravity.

The problem was Ding and Dong couldn’t write.

[Lord Varys]

10 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

That's a rather huge leap of logic since we only know that Aegon relented after a ten year war when he received the letter that caused him to bloody his own hands. I believe the theory the Dornish threatened to execute his child with the Faceless Men. It wasn't for lack of trying to conquer Dorne that Aegon gave up.

He was just beaten and realized he had no avenue of success.

We don't know what was in the letter, so that's really idle speculation. Up until Rhaenys' death in 10 AC Aegon was pretty reasonably, sending effectively only two big hosts to Dorne, the Reach army under Tyrell, and Orys' stupid Stormlanders. Afterwards it was small scale warfare, interrupted by a few dragon attacks.

Aegon relenting despite the fact that they murdered his beloved wife also indicates he never was a guy obsessed with total war. He certainly didn't want to give in that easily after Rhaenys' death ... but he still did.

10 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

That's a ridiculous assertion. Aegon offered him a perfectly valid marriage proposal in his kinsman and second in command. And I'm getting some weird back and forth here. "Aegon is never the kind of guy to freak out/No sane man would do what Aegon did."

No, he did not. Orys Baratheon was an insult. I mean, not only was Orys Baratheon not a recognized bastard of Aerion Targaryen ... but there isn't any indication that he was of noble blood on his legal father's or his mother's side. There are no other Baratheons mentioned, so it seems they were not exactly a noble family.

Argella Durrandon was a royal princess and the only child and heir of the Storm King. A suitable match for her was high nobility or other royalty, not some alleged Targaryen bastard. Even Aegon of Dragonstone himself was pretty much a smaller lord compared to Westerosi royalty. The marriage to Argella would make him Storm King one day, but Aegon himself could only offer Argella some rocky islands.

10 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Luck had nothing to do with sensible tactics. The Targaryens just had to lure their enemies on the open field of battle and then fry them. They only had to make a few careful examples like Harrenhal to show they had no defense. Which is basically the situation with all of the lords. The targaryens can destroy any and every noble house of Westeros. It's only Dorne where they can hide indefinitely.

Being able to destroy castles doesn't win you the land ... as Dorne shows. The North especially could have also used Dornish tactics, but all the other kingdoms could have tried them. It may have been harder in the Reach, but the West and the Vale could have done that as well.

More importantly, Rhaenys' campaign in the Stormlands shows that strategy, weather, and geography is also very important for the dragonlord commanders. Orys could have defeated Orys and Rhaenys. He nearly did.

And the Field of Fire was only possible because terrain and weather greatly favored Aegon. The battlefield was a gigantic field, it was summer and had been dry for weeks so the dragons could actually create a huge fire. That is not a given in every battle scenario as later battles show - Maegor's early battles against the Faith Militant, for instance.

10 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

And the Vale's situation is that they had the heir. If they didn't surrender, well, they had the heir.

Lucky coincidence. If little Ronnel had been stupid enough to run outside the Queen Regent of the Vale may have never yielded. Sure enough, Visenya could have torched the Eyrie ... but so what? Does this mean the Lords of the Vale have to magically yield? Couldn't they be even more defiant over this atrocity? Sharra and her son could have even survived such an attack in the cellars of the Eyrie.

10 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

It's a Song of Ice and Fire so it's always been the Targaryens and Starks story. Honestly, I'm surprised George hasn't realized that should be the title for the Snow story. "A Song of Ice and Fire" because that's Jon. We also know there's always been the prophecy of the Targaryens and Starks defeating the Others because Rhaegar apparently found it and believed they had to breed with the Starks to produce the three-heads of the dragon.

It's just Rhaegar screwed it up.

If this is a retcon, it's just Martin extending the plot back to the beginning.

That was always a fannish interpretation. As things stand at this point, the prophecy about the promised prince was known to various Targaryens long before Rhaegar developed his Lyanna obsession. And nobody ever thought that the Song of Ice and Fire means that a Targaryen has to take a Stark bride or a Stark guy a Targaryen bride.

The prophecy angle there was always about the Targaryens, and no Stark ever thought that there were prophecies or special destinies about their scions in relation to some fight against the Others.

It is still clear that the Stark characters in the books are very crucial to the plot and will play important roles in the final battle ... but there are no prophecies about Bran, Arya, Sansa, Rickon, etc.

[Lord Varys]

9 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think that there are ways of fighting dragons, but you have to take advantage of terrain, weather, be willing to take casualties, and be in it for the long haul, and from the POV of most lords, why bother? If the Targaryens are willing not just to tolerate, but to convert to your religion, and confirm your titles and estates,  pledging fealty is the best option.

In some cases, yes, Sharra Arryn makes sense, the Riverlords even more, the last Durrandon is soundly defeated and the Targaryen power grap solidified by Orys' marriage, Loren Lannister had no other choice, the Tyrells and the Hightowers were smart.

But Torrhen Stark is another issue. There was no fighting there and really no reason to submit. No way for Aegon to stop them if they just decided to march home and defy him on their own turf. Aegon could not just possibly try to torch an entire army for the crime of refusing to fight him.

I can certainly imagine that the strength of the dragons also helped to cow folks into submission ... but Aegon and Torrhen had secret negotiations going on and we have no idea about what was spoken there. If both Torrhen and Aegon believed the Others were a thing then Torrhen could have certainly believed the help of Aegon and his dragons would have been a great asset if they ever came back.

That could actually be a great reason why he would submit to Aegon, especially since his day-to-day rule wasn't affected all that much by the Targaryen overlordship.

7 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

As others have pointed out, it didn't stop William the Conqueror from invading England.

Couldn't Aegon have wanted to turn the backwater Westeros into a flourishing empire?

England was bigger than Normandy, but not a gigantic continent like Westeros. William invaded a kingdom lacking a clear heir, fancying himself the true heir of Edward the Confessor. He didn't try to conquer seven kingdoms at the same time.

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

That doesn't make the idea itself any better. Aegon being an altruistic savior of mankind instead of an ambitious warlord isn't going to sit well with everyone.

Aegon doesn't really strike us as an ambitious warlord in his historical portrait. He is more like Rhaegar than Maegor, Daemon, Daeron I, Daemon Blackfyre, or Robert Baratheon.

His take on legal matters also indicates he was more about keeping the peace in his domans than to create unified Realm. His grandson had to do this.

He is more a kind of steward to the people of Westeros than a warlord or a conqueror. He changed very little in the conquered lands, unlike William the Conqueror. And if you ask yourself why he would do that then it makes really little sense. No conqueror would have left all the old elites in power, wouldn't have created new great lordships for his most loyal followers, wouldn't have slowly pushed out people he didn't trust all that much.

There was no migration from Valyrian territories to Westeros, no continued use of Valyrian as language of the court, no introduction of Valyrian laws to Westeros, no continued practice of Valyrian religion(s), etc. The Norman Conquest (and the subsequent takeover of the Angevin dynasty) meant that the official language in England was Norman French for about 400 years. And Williams companions and friends all got a share in the spoils, while the native nobles were pushed back.

In Westeros you have nothing of that. It is all very strange. Aegon more or less looks like a guy who wanted to help the Westerosi smallfolk ... like Daenerys wants to help the Ghiscari slaves.

What is his motivation for this? The idea that his family has a special destiny in this Westeros certainly makes sense.

I mean, there are even subtle hints in that direction in TWoIaF with the talk that some Valyrians believed the doom of mankind would come from Westeros. If the Targaryens came to believe that they would have to face and defeat that ultimate doom then both Aenar's and Aegon's decisions make sense. If not, then their actions are pretty erratic and the fact that some of their distant descendants ended up believing they had a special destiny sounds all the more weird.

I mean, with this background Rhaegar's queer belief in prophecy makes much more sense, as does Jaehaerys II's decision to marry Aerys to Rhaella. If belief in prophecy was nearly as important to the Targaryens than their incestuous marriage policy, if they knew that many of their ancestors thought in such categories then especially Rhaegar's deeds make more sense.

And Dunk & Egg definitely point us in that direction - Daeron the Drunk and the second Daemon Blackfyre both make very crucial (political) decisions on the basis of prophetic dreams. Aerion Brightflame and Aegon V will do a similar things, the latter in combination with an interpretation of ancient prophecy and dragonlore.

It would be very fitting, natural even, to assume that some or many ancestors of Maekar and Daeron II were motivated by similar things.

Hell, the Young Dragon's obsession with conquering Dorne may have been started by a recurring dream about him being at Sunspear, accepting the submission of the ruling Prince of Dorne, his family, and great lords. Folks tend to be a lot more confident when they think they are destined to win ... and that, in turn, can have a positive effect on the war effort.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

No conqueror would have left all the old elites in power, wouldn't have created new great lordships for his most loyal followers, wouldn't have slowly pushed out people he didn't trust all that much.

But isn't that exactly what Robert Baratheon did, for example?

[The Bard of Banefort]

Going off of Reddit, it looks like HOTD is in full marketing swing, although I haven’t seen any ads where I live. I still haven’t heard anyone IRL talk about HOTD, but to be fair, no one’s mentioned TROP either.

My parents watched WOT and didn’t like it (I don’t think they even finished the first season). I know a bunch of people who love The Witcher though. It’s funny, because the impression I get is that The Witcher is very schlock-y, but that that’s what people like about it.

[Lord Varys]

8 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But isn't that exactly what Robert Baratheon did, for example?

Robert wasn't a foreign conqueror but a usurper supported by a faction of the Westerosi nobility. He never had the power to actually push out any old elites ... but he did sideline some crucial Targaryen loyalists like the Tyrells and the Martells and lesser families in the Riverlands, the Reach, and the Stormlands.

However, Robert was so dependent on his noble supporters that he had marry to Cersei Lannister and keep the Arryns and Starks happy (to a point).

Aegon's Ned and Jon and Hoster were named Velaryon, Celtigar, Massey, etc. ... but they didn't reap really great rewards insofar as feudal lordships are concerned. They got high places at court and usually played important roles in the government ... but no share in the spoils of war.

And that is really odd. Aegon should have dispossessed many lords or at least reduced the size of their lordships to properly reward his most loyal supporters.

Another curious case is King's Landing. Apparently the city was flooded almost immediately by Westerosi smallfolk, indicating Aegon successfully tried to and quickly won the love of the smallfolk. If Aegon was a William the Conqueror-like figure then his King's Landing would have not been filled with local Westerosi but rather with Valyrians from the Free Cities - people with Aegon's cultural background. Just like the Norman Conquest caused people from France to migrate to England.

[C.T. Phipps]

7 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But isn't that exactly what Robert Baratheon did, for example?

I also think this undermines the politicking of Aegon the Conqueror as well. The assumption he didn't do anything to solidify his position.

* Orrys Baratheon is made the ruler of the Stormlands and that gives one of the Dragonstone nobles one of the most powerful positions in all of the Seven Kingdoms. You could argue that he did it himself by marrying the daughter of the King but this is wrong. He's already conquered it, he's just solidifying his position in a sensible manner.

* Aegon the Conqueror establishes the Crownlands, which presents himself and his position an immensely powerful place in the Seven Kingdoms as well as moves the center of power to one under his command versus Oldtown as the more sensible capital.

* He installs replacement houses that are weaker than their old ones in the Riverlands and Reach in order so that they are dependent on the Targaryen patronage.

* House Velaryon becomes the second most powerful House in the Realm.

Mind you, I also note that Aegon the Conqueror isn't nearly as "foreign" as William the Conqueror either. The Targaryens have been living in "Hawaii" for a century, which means that they're not nearly as Valyrian as historians as well as the Targaryens themselves might style themselves. They've been a part of Westeros society for a very long time.

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No, he did not. Orys Baratheon was an insult. I mean, not only was Orys Baratheon not a recognized bastard of Aerion Targaryen ... but there isn't any indication that he was of noble blood on his legal father's or his mother's side. There are no other Baratheons mentioned, so it seems they were not exactly a noble family.

Argella Durrandon was a royal princess and the only child and heir of the Storm King. A suitable match for her was high nobility or other royalty, not some alleged Targaryen bastard. Even Aegon of Dragonstone himself was pretty much a smaller lord compared to Westerosi royalty. The marriage to Argella would make him Storm King one day, but Aegon himself could only offer Argella some rocky islands.

The concept of "recognized bastard" seems like you're adding caveats to the issue as there's no way that King Durrandon would know that he was Aerion Targaryen's son unless he was living as Aegon's half-brother. He's a figure raised in Dragonstone and the general of Aegon's forces precisely because he's an Edric Storm figure rather than a Gendry figure. As for noble blood, he was raised to his position by the Targaryens and a member of their household. This seems to be a culture clash primarily between Valyrian and Westerosi values.

Frankly, Durrandon's offer was also insulting because he was offering the Targaryens land he did not own and expected them to conquer in order to create a buffer state between himself and the Ironborn. Even if he was making the offer sincerely, the mutilation of a messenger is such an incredible insult that Aegon was justified in taking it as a declaration of war.

I also question whether King Durrandon was offering an heirdom as that isn't mentioned in Fire and Blood. Lack of mention of sons doesn't mean he didn't have any that were slain the conflict let alone other male issue of his family.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I also think this undermines the politicking of Aegon the Conqueror as well. The assumption he didn't do anything to solidify his position.

That I never said. My point is that Aegon acted more as if he felt he was the steward of the Westerosi people, doing his best to care for them rather, you know, act like a real conqueror, pushing out the conquered elites and doing his best to put his family, kin, friends, and supporters in high places.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

* Orrys Baratheon is made the ruler of the Stormlands and that gives one of the Dragonstone nobles one of the most powerful positions in all of the Seven Kingdoms. You could argue that he did it himself by marrying the daughter of the King but this is wrong. He's already conquered it, he's just solidifying his position in a sensible manner.

Orys was Aegon's best friend and, perhaps, his half-brother. So, yes, that is a case of patronage to the highest degree on Aegon's part - especially if Orys wasn't of high birth himself (which I'd assume until the existence of a pre-Conquest 'House Baratheon' is confirmed). But it is a singular event. Aegon could have given all the Riverlands to Quenton Qoherys rather than just Harrenhal. He could have given Highgarden to a loyal man from Dragonstone, etc.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

* Aegon the Conqueror establishes the Crownlands, which presents himself and his position an immensely powerful place in the Seven Kingdoms as well as moves the center of power to one under his command versus Oldtown as the more sensible capital.

Not going to Oldtown was certainly a wise idea ... only ruling the Crownlands directly not so much.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

* He installs replacement houses that are weaker than their old ones in the Riverlands and Reach in order so that they are dependent on the Targaryen patronage.

Sure enough - but those are crucial Westerosi houses, not men he could *really* rely on. Sure enough, Edmyn Tully came to his cause early, so he wasn't a bad choice from the Westerosi turncloaks ... but Harlan Tyrell was just an opportunist. It generosity bordering on stupidity to reward men in such a way who never actually fought with Aegon from the start but only switched to his side to save themselves or, worse, better their position.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

* House Velaryon becomes the second most powerful House in the Realm.

Only by virtue of being very close to the Iron Throne. Not by virtue of the size of their lands, the number of their smallfolk, or the strength of their levies. The father of the wife of Aegon's son and heir should have demanded and received a proper reward. The Vale of Arryn, say. Harrenhal. Highgarden. That would have been a proper reward. Not an almost hereditary seat on the Small Council which effectively only translated into work.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Mind you, I also note that Aegon the Conqueror isn't nearly as "foreign" as William the Conqueror either. The Targaryens have been living in "Hawaii" for a century, which means that they're not nearly as Valyrian as historians as well as the Targaryens themselves might style themselves. They've been a part of Westeros society for a very long time.

The histories tell us that Aegon's ancestors used to look east, not west. So there is little reason to assume that they were particularly close to the Westerosi at the time of the Conquest. Aegon's own lifestyle (incestuous polygamy) was clearly anathema to all Westerosi customs and traditions, so one imagines that neither nor his parents (who might have arranged those matches) gave a damn what the Westerosi people thought about the way they did things.

Not to mention that all the trade the Targaryens and Velaryons would have been with the Free Cities and other folks from Essos.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

The concept of "recognized bastard" seems like you're adding caveats to the issue as there's no way that King Durrandon would know that he was Aerion Targaryen's son unless he was living as Aegon's half-brother. He's a figure raised in Dragonstone and the general of Aegn's forces precisely because he's an Edric Storm figure rather than a Gendry figure. As for noble blood, he was raised to his position by the Targaryens and a member of their household. This seems to be a culture clash primarily between Valyrian and Westerosi values.

Orys Baratheon is more like Gendry than Edric Storm. He doesn't even have a bastard name, after all, but seems to go by the name of his legal (or biological) father. There may have been some private stuff going on with Orys' mother and Lord Aerion as Jaehaerys seems to believe in FaB ... but that would have been behind the scenes stuff. If Aerion had formally recognized Orys as his bastard then the histories would name him as Lord Aerion's bastard and not just Aegon's alleged bastard brother.

It seems that neither Aerion nor Aegon or Orys ever addressed this subject publicly. Else it would have been clear who Orys actually was.

This is certainly odd in context since Aegon was lacking an heir of his own body until the birth of Aenys in 7 AC. So after Visenya and Rhaenys who was next in line to the Iron Throne? The Velaryons were close cousins to the Targaryens, but if Orys was truly Aegon's half-brother who would have been the heir the Conqueror had preferred? A cousin through the female line or the son of his bastard half-brother? We have no idea, but this issue must have come up while he had no heir of his own body.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Frankly, Durrandon's offer was also insulting because he was offering the Targaryens land he did not own and expected them to conquer in order to create a buffer state between himself and the Ironborn. Even if he was making the offer sincerely, the mutilation of a messenger is such an incredible insult that Aegon was justified in taking it as a declaration of war.

That wasn't exactly a proper dowry, true, but Argella was still Argilac's only child and heir, so in the end her hand would have given Aegon all the Stormlands upon Argilac's death, not just the lands between Argilac and Harren. Granted, Argilac likely didn't intend to die soon, but he was already pretty old so it wouldn't have taken that long.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I also question whether King Durrandon was offering an heirdom as that isn't mentioned in Fire and Blood. Lack of mention of sons doesn't mean he didn't have any that were slain the conflict let alone other male issue of his family.

We know that Argella was Argilac's heir because she declared herself the Storm Queen upon her father's death. And because Gyldayn says that she was his only child and heir:

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And no king in Westeros felt more threatened than Argilac the Storm King, last of the Durrandon—an aging warrior whose only heir was his maiden daughter.

That means the Durrandon bloodline was pretty much down to Argilac and Argella at that point, which means that whatever cousins and nephews and sons he may have had died during his earlier wars. Any older Durrandon cadet branches may have died in the centuries before during the constant fighting in the Riverlands before and after Harwyn Hardhand's conquest.

It seems quite clear that Orys Baratheon wouldn't have prevailed as Lord of Storm's End - or at least not without having to put down multiple rebellions - if Argilac had had any close male line cousins. But the Durrandons were pretty much done, and Argella was the last of their bloodline, apparently.

[SFDanny]

22 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

@SFDanny The official character description on the HBO website reads:

They keep the same backstory as the in the books but added that somehow Criston has some Dornish blood in him. We don't know to what extent, maybe his mother was dornish, maybe his grandfather, etc. That should be explained by the show itself in due time.

The actor playing Criston, Fabien Frankel, has a french mother and an english father originally from india, maybe they just wanted his character to reflect his mixed background ? I don't know.

Thank you! The fact this comes from the show and not Martin's text explains a lot. While not ruling out the show runners created this backstory perhaps with Martin's consent, it does raise considerable need of explanation. A man of Dornish descent in the Kingsguard, and indeed who becomes the Lord Commander, is not something we would expect in this time period. The death of Rhaenys and the refusal of Dorne to accept Targaryen rule is too strong a backdrop to Martin's story to just accept Cole's Dornish heritage, to whatever extent it is, without some detailed explanation. 

[C.T. Phipps]

Thanks for the correction, @Lord Varys.

I missed that part.

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Orys was Aegon's best friend and, perhaps, his half-brother. So, yes, that is a case of patronage to the highest degree on Aegon's part - especially if Orys wasn't of high birth himself (which I'd assume until the existence of a pre-Conquest 'House Baratheon' is confirmed). But it is a singular event. Aegon could have given all the Riverlands to Quenton Qoherys rather than just Harrenhal. He could have given Highgarden to a loyal man from Dragonstone, et

Ehhh, we know that the Essos states have their own system of aristocracy that do not depend on the House system of Westeros. It's entirely possible that Orys is a man of Valyrian blood and the aristocracy of Dragonstone (or what passes for it) ala House Velayron without having to be part of a house. Indeed, House Targaryen may simply be applying the rules of Westeros to the ruling family of them as well.

Which gets into the larger meat of what I'm saying that if Aegon considered Orrys Baratheon an insult to the House Durrandon, it's a very strange action to promptly give him the largest chunk of his conquests out of any of his followers. Aegon also notably raised Orrys Baratheon to the position of the Hand of the King and always treated him as his second in command (overlooking his wives/sisters because that's what historians do).

I'm inclined to view the alliance as a sincere offer. If anyone was insulting, it was the Stormlands king who ignored that Aegon was already married twice.

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Not going to Oldtown was certainly a wise idea ... only ruling the Crownlands directly not so much.

The Crownlands and Dragonstone, which isn't a bad basis of power by itself.

As we see with the subsequent few generations, House Baratheon also is the strong right hand of the Targaryen household that protects King Jaeharys and has historical blood ties to their lineage. I doubt there was anyone closer to the royal household than Aegon and his sister/wives than Orrys.

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Sure enough - but those are crucial Westerosi houses, not men he could *really* rely on. Sure enough, Edmyn Tully came to his cause early, so he wasn't a bad choice from the Westerosi turncloaks ... but Harlan Tyrell was just an opportunist. It generosity bordering on stupidity to reward men in such a way who never actually fought with Aegon from the start but only switched to his side to save themselves or, worse, better their position.

To be fair, it was not as if Aegon Targaryen just accepted their allegiance and went on his merry way. Aegon proceeded to put the Reach, Stormlanders, and other forces directly to work against his enemies in order to show they were willing to fight for him. If nothing else, ten years of war with Dorn solidified that they were under Aegon's command.

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The histories tell us that Aegon's ancestors used to look east, not west. So there is little reason to assume that they were particularly close to the Westerosi at the time of the Conquest. Aegon's own lifestyle (incestuous polygamy) was clearly anathema to all Westerosi customs and traditions, so one imagines that neither nor his parents (who might have arranged those matches) gave a damn what the Westerosi people thought about the way they did things.

Not to mention that all the trade the Targaryens and Velaryons would have been with the Free Cities and other folks from Essos.

It seems a peculiar idea to assume all trade is with Essos when Westeros is just to the side.

[Mithras]

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/asoiaf/viewtopic.php?p=23715#p23715

This is the earliest bit I could find, which GRRM might have read back in the day and referred to it as the fan speculation about Aegon's motive in conquering Westeros.