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House of the Dragon Flood Gates Open


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What’s happening to HBO max is absolutely devastating. I thought it would be the source for my lifetime supply of Scooby Doo, which if gone will rankle me to no end.  
 

And no, I don’t care about the Flintstones or Bugs Bunny so I’m never forking over my hard earned money for Boomerang and I don’t care about that stupid rodent either so Disney+ is off the table.
 

They canceled at least two finished products so if House of the Dragon gets the axe, I feel everyone’s pain. And no, I would rather be kicked in the head by a kangaroo than pay for Discovery+ in order to watch.
 

Netflix isn’t going to last until the winter Which just leaves me Amazon Prime and Rings of Power, and I really really don’t care about middle earth even if the trailer looked good.

Edited by butterweedstrover
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3 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

While I'm already questioning whether Darkstar will kill Aegon and or Myrcella, I'm going to move back to House of the Dragon.

Anyone think after the Dance of the Dragons the show will move to new time periods?

 

If it convinces George to release more of FnB, then I damn well hope so.

4 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Well…we can only hope (shrug)

I actually take the lack of YouTube videos complaining about the showrunners’ dumb quotes as a bad sign (and I recognize how crazy that sounds).

 

I know most of you don’t agree with me, but there’s no point in introducing Aegon unless he’s there to be an obstacle for Dany. If he gets taken out before she lands, then his inclusion was truly pointless. If he is just another pretender spurned by the people, then he presents no challenge to Dany’s quest to claim the Iron Throne. And let’s remember, the mummer’s dragon was seen amongst a cheering crowd, indicating that he will be beloved among the smallfolk. 

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1 hour ago, butterweedstrover said:

What’s happening to HBO max is absolutely devastating. I thought it would be the source for my lifetime supply of Scooby Doo, which if gone will rankle me to no end.  
 

And no, I don’t care about the Flintstones or Bugs Bunny so I’m never forking over my hard earned money for Boomerang and I don’t care about that stupid rodent either so Disney+ is off the table.
 

They canceled at least two finished products so if House of the Dragon gets the axe, I feel everyone’s pain. And no, I would rather be kicked in the head by a kangaroo than pay for Discovery+ in order to watch.
 

Netflix isn’t going to last until the winter Which just leaves me Amazon Prime and Rings of Power, and I really really don’t care about middle earth even if the trailer looked good.

House of the Dragon is not going to be axed because of this. The talk seems to be that all of the scripted context will fall under HBO's umbrella, and HotH is already part of it. Shows that are exclusive HBO Max original content are the ones in danger.

Edited by Corvinus85
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47 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

House of the Dragon is not going to be axed because of this. The talk seems to be that all of the scripted context will fall under HBO's umbrella, and HotH is already part of it. Shows that are exclusive HBO Max original content are the ones in danger.

It seems to be the opposite actually, unfortunately. HBO is cancelling all family friendly products because they want to focus on stuff like House of the Dragon.

Hence the teenage girl show and SCOOB going.

No idea why they axed Batgirl.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

House of the Dragon is not going to be axed because of this. The talk seems to be that all of the scripted context will fall under HBO's umbrella, and HotH is already part of it. Shows that are exclusive HBO Max original content are the ones in danger.

Perhaps. But I fear Yi Ti is doomed.

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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On 7/31/2022 at 9:19 AM, Lord Varys said:

I don't think this should be an issue at all. Rhaenyra later has an exiled Yronwood among her household knights (one of the Seven Who Ride to save Joffrey Velaryon), so its clear they have no issues with Dorne at that time. And Jaehaerys didn't have issues with Dorne, either, only with a certain moronic prince.

Criston Cole would also not be a Dornish nobleman but most likely of common Dornish descent. Say, they have his father or grandfather take a Dornish wife. The Coles are clearly not a noble family. Politically this might be odd to a point since Criston Cole supposedly supported Aegon II because 'of Andal succession customs' ... a Criston Cole with a Dornish background should have been more familiar with Dornish succession customs. On the other hand - while he was Rhaenyra's buddy he clearly had no problem with her succession, so that argument is most likely just a pretext on his part.

That we see things differently doesn't surprise me, LV. We have differing opinions on many things over the years, so why should this be different?

I believe we need to look at this in the context of the history Martin has given us to evaluate if this decision by the show runners is a wise one, not important, or a huge plot hole and change created in contradiction to what Martin has given us.

It doesn't have to be this last option - IF there is a backstory that creates a believable reason why the Royal Family would allow a Dornishman as one of their personal bodyguards. But without that backstory, we have to believe the Targaryens have become both lax concerning their personal safety and somewhere off screen some major changes in the politics of Targaryen/Martell relations have taken place that we don't see in Martin's history of the time.

Perhaps it is a simple as the history of family Cole in service to House Dondarrion has proven young Criston's unquestioned loyalty to the royal family. I'd love to know what in that history justifies such trust. Great swordsmen can serve in many places and in many ways without putting them within a quick thrust of killing a member of the Targaryen family. All I'm asking is that the show runners show us the reason for this change.

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13 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Aegon will never sit on the Iron Throne. He's going to be exposed as a pretender well before this, I'm sure.

I'll have to disagree here. I don't know if GRRM has changed his mind on this or not, but he said around 2014 that many people will sit on the Iron Throne before everything is over. I don't think controversial to assume that Aegon will be one of them. He might very well be exposed as a pretender, but I think it will happen while he is king.

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Hey, a couple new scans came out from the Empire magazine interview. Nothing much new in terms of images so far, only one thing caught my eye - a heraldry design at the tournament I don't recognize:

https://preview.redd.it/wp4bh68phof91.jpg?width=1525&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd2893c3e023d76a7120e74f4796cfc4f499e76d

It looks like a brown diamond on a yellow field. What could it be?

@Ran

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8 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

don't think controversial to assume that Aegon will be one of them. He might very well be exposed as a pretender, but I think it will happen while he is king.

Whoa, you mean fAegon becoming king is a real possibility in your opinion bookwise? I never thought he'd get that far. Frankly I didn't see anyone think he'd get that far. Then again haven't really indulged in real in depth booktalk for years so what do I know?

 

EDIT: I just heard on a podcast the possibility that Harwin Strong's storyline with Rheanyra may be attached to Criston Cole's so as to consolidate and not confuse showwatchers. I did not consider it but maybe we should because they put a LOT of emphasis on the lovestory between Cole and her and maybe the book!Strong boys will be Cole's boys.

Edited by TormundsWoman
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8 hours ago, SFDanny said:

That we see things differently doesn't surprise me, LV. We have differing opinions on many things over the years, so why should this be different?

I believe we need to look at this in the context of the history Martin has given us to evaluate if this decision by the show runners is a wise one, not important, or a huge plot hole and change created in contradiction to what Martin has given us.

It doesn't have to be this last option - IF there is a backstory that creates a believable reason why the Royal Family would allow a Dornishman as one of their personal bodyguards. But without that backstory, we have to believe the Targaryens have become both lax concerning their personal safety and somewhere off screen some major changes in the politics of Targaryen/Martell relations have taken place that we don't see in Martin's history of the time.

Perhaps it is a simple as the history of family Cole in service to House Dondarrion has proven young Criston's unquestioned loyalty to the royal family. I'd love to know what in that history justifies such trust. Great swordsmen can serve in many places and in many ways without putting them within a quick thrust of killing a member of the Targaryen family. All I'm asking is that the show runners show us the reason for this change.

Criston Cole in the show is merely of Dornish descent, not a Dornishman. He is still a younger son in service of the Lord Dondarrion of Blackhaven, which is about as anti-Dornish as you can get, politically. Ethnically a lot of the people from the Dornish Marches should be part-Dornish due to the constant interaction with Dornishmen - during war and peace times. They are neighbors, after all.

If Criston Cole was, say, a Martell (bastard) Viserys I were to move directly from Sunspear to KL to make him the sworn shield of his daughter ... then this would be kind of odd. But this isn't the case.

And insofar as relations between the Iron Throne and Dorne are concerned in the arly 100s:

Even in Dorne people seem to have mourned publicly for the Old King, indicating the Targaryens and Martells were on very good terms at that time. Viserys I even considered marrying Rhaenyra to a Martell prince to bring Dorne into the Realm. There were no hostilities between Dorne and the Iron Throne at that time.

8 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'll have to disagree here. I don't know if GRRM has changed his mind on this or not, but he said around 2014 that many people will sit on the Iron Throne before everything is over. I don't think controversial to assume that Aegon will be one of them. He might very well be exposed as a pretender, but I think it will happen while he is king.

I don't think it can ever be proven that Aegon isn't who he says he is, but eventually certain people might spread a believable alternative to the official story. But Aegon's success completely hinges on him having success in the field and, should he ever properly rule, as an administrator. As long as he looks like people imagine Rhaegar's son - a successful general, great king, etc. - they might be happy with him. But when he starts to make mistakes they might quickly see him as a fake boy. And that's the danger of his campaign - when they start to mock him as the Pisswater Prince, etc. he is not likely to take kindly to this, especially if he were to be really popular for five minutes or so.

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18 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

EDIT: I just heard on a podcast the possibility that Harwin Strong's storyline with Rheanyra may be attached to Criston Cole's so as to consolidate and not confuse showwatchers. I did not consider it but maybe we should because they put a LOT of emphasis on the lovestory between Cole and her and maybe the book!Strong boys will be Cole's boys.

That's not what we've heard, and I know people who have been making spy reports for 2 years that turned out to be accurate.

 

Quote

Criston Cole in the show is merely of Dornish descent, not a Dornishman. He is still a younger son in service of the Lord Dondarrion of Blackhaven, which is about as anti-Dornish as you can get, politically. Ethnically a lot of the people from the Dornish Marches should be part-Dornish due to the constant interaction with Dornishmen - during war and peace times. They are neighbors, after all.

The borders ebb and flow with the centuries. It's like saying "but that guy from southern France is part-Spanish!"....well....that's not particularly implausible...

Edited by The Dragon Demands
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There was a massive Reddit leak for HOTD, and at least some of it lines up with other rumors people have heard (myself included). I’ll put it under the spoiler tab so that those of you who want to go in blind aren’t tempted. As always, take everything with a grain of salt:

 

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The reddit thread broadly matches the extremely detailed spoiler outline of season 1 that was leaked to the hardcore spies months ago. MONTHS ago. It got a few details wrong though: i.e. Rhaenyra clearly isn't cut in the "face" because we see her face in the new trailer; she gets slashed in the arm. A few of the minor details here and there are incorrect. It's like an imperfect copy of the big spoiler leak pack that has been circulating among the spy community for months.

One difference that was just this guy reading into it: he says "it sounds like Aegon abuses Helaena"....it's more like it's clear that he ignores her because they were forced to marry as per Valyrian tradition, but that she really doesn't care because she was forced into it too. Some sort of line about "it's okay, he mostly ignores me" - she means that honestly, she's happy he pretty much leaves her to her own interests. Pretty much as in the books.

Edited by The Dragon Demands
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Must say I very much like this summary. Especially the take on the

Spoiler

lasting friendship of Alicent and Rhaenyra. Trying to overcome the issues by marrying their children to each other. That is how it should be.

One also wonders whether Alicent's big issues will be that she caused a war she will never be able to control or end ... it could be a great spin to have her being right there when Aegon murders Rhaenyra and she doesn't approve and is completely horrified by it.

That they really try to make it is great to know.

Spoiler

Scenes like Rhaenys being at court when Viserys dies and helping with the theft of the crown are really great additions. Also playing up the importance of Baela and Rhaena, especially the thing about the latter wanting to claim Vhagar to honor her mother. Also the way their claims to Driftmark come up and are part of the reason why they are betrothed to Jace and Luke. Great to age up certain characters so they play an important role (e.g. Baela/Rhaena during the Aemond incident).

Also Viserys confusing Alicent with Rhaenyra seems to be a great touch - she honestly believed the king changed his mind at last.

Not sure I like their take on Criston Cole.

Aegon II seems to be an intriguing character ... simply not kingly material, but pushed into a role he was neither suited nor prepared for. A pawn in the hands of his mother who is going to run amok eventually. They should be carefully not to venture too far into show Joffrey territory there ... but the fact that Aegon will greatly suffer for his usurpation and be out of the game for considerable time should make things more interesting.

Kind of a letdown that the Strongs seem to be pretty much glossed over. Great detail to have

Spoiler

Jason Lannister wanting to marry Rhaenyra and the Lannisters turning green going back to wounded pride.

The report often alludes to Alicent's mother. Do we know who she is in the show? Has this been revealed so far?

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26 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

The reddit thread broadly matches the extremely detailed spoiler outline of season 1 that was leaked to the hardcore spies months ago. MONTHS ago. It got a few details wrong though: i.e. Rhaenyra clearly isn't cut in the "face" because we see her face in the new trailer; she gets slashed in the arm. A few of the minor details here and there are incorrect. It's like an imperfect copy of the big spoiler leak pack that has been circulating among the spy community for months.

Can you share the more complete leak?

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I guess the

Spoiler

rape scene

we talked about earlier will indeed involve Aegon and his mother's maid.

Them showing

Spoiler

Aegon's bastard(s)

hopefully means Gaemon Palehair is going to turn out to be that guy. It could be a great plot to have a child of rotten Aegon be turned into a short-lived hope for change for the commons. Not to mention how much better the friendship between Aegon III and Gaemon is if the guy is actually his cousin and the son of his hated uncle.

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In general I must say plot-wise and insofar as character development is concerned this looks really promising. There are many different layers to the story, many different aspects to the political and personal stories.

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The article about sexual assault from the other day had a quote about how sometimes it’s inappropriate even if the person involved doesn’t realize it. So I think we’ll probably see Aegon with an underage servant who can’t really say no, but in his mind it’ll just be a normal affair. Uptight Alicent, meanwhile, will be horrified (maybe shades of Viserys II dealing with young Aegon the Unworthy). 

There was some debate among people that have heard various leaks about Criston:

Spoiler

The main gist is that Rhaenyra seduces Criston. He feels guilty about breaking his vows but is besotted with her. After her engagement to Laenor, he offers to elope and run away with her in Essos. She refuses but selfishly wants him to remain her paramour. This offends Criston and he pins all of his guilt/decisions on her.

This leak says that Criston kills Joffrey for mentioning the moon tea, but I heard that Joffrey notices Criston is down at the wedding, puts two and two together, and tries to comfort him, which has the opposite effect by throwing Criston into a rage.

I’m guessing the part of Rhaenyra and Laenor agreeing to have an heir together isn’t true, since the casting makes it pretty clear that Jace is a Strong.

The fact that none of the leaks indicated much of anything happening with Harwin and Lyonel is a huge missed opportunity, in my opinion. They had so much potential, but it sounds like the showrunners just threw it away. As for Larys:

Spoiler

He apparently has a foot fetish. I’ve heard this from a few different people. And Alicent takes her shoes off around him to manipulate him. Yeah.

I maintain that the smartest thing Viserys could have done was betroth Helaena to Jace. Alicent may not have liked it, but she wouldn’t have staged a coup against her own grandson.

If the “heir for a day” part is true, then it’s actually pretty clever. 

It sounds like Rhaenyra starts off as kind of a selfish brat but matures a lot once she becomes a mother. Alicent, on the other hand, grows more paranoid.

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