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Speaking of Blood and Cheese:

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If they have Daemon arbitrarily decide to murder one of Aegon's kids for Luke's murder ... then the guy would become a clear villain. Blood and Cheese is the most horrible deed during the entire war ... and it doesn't seem as if they want to go with Daemon being a monster.

There are worse things than being a monster.

Being INCOMPETENT is worse than that in an audience's eyes. Littlefinger was an incredibly popular character and he openly admitted to having Ros murdered and also how he once sold another prostitute to a serial killer. However, it was when he sold Sansa to Ramsay and stupidly so that the audience turned against him.

Daemon sending his buddies to kill someone and they kill a child because he didn't specify who is way worse.

Audiences can forgive child killing (look at Jaime) but they wont' forgive him being an idiot.

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I don't agree with the line of thinking that it makes no sense if the Targ's knew about the Others because they weren't doing X, Y and Z in preparation?

The Targ side of things have so far hinted at The War for the Dawn, The Prince that Was Promised and the Three Headed Dragon (three heads have the dragon). That they're specifically up against the Others, necromancer Ice Demons invading from the north isn't necessarily the information their prophecies are giving, or indeed what the prophecy is really about. I expect the key elements of the prophecy will be there's a war for the dawn and the Targs are destined to save the world with a three headed dragon, and so it will make sense for the Targs to be focussed on dragons rather than conventional defences.

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11 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I don't agree with the line of thinking that it makes no sense if the Targ's knew about the Others because they weren't doing X, Y and Z in preparation?

The Targ side of things have so far hinted at The War for the Dawn, The Prince that Was Promised and the Three Headed Dragon (three heads have the dragon). That they're specifically up against the Others, necromancer Ice Demons invading from the north isn't necessarily the information their prophecies are giving, or indeed what the prophecy is really about. I expect the key elements of the prophecy will be there's a war for the dawn and the Targs are destined to save the world with a three headed dragon, and so it will make sense for the Targs to be focussed on dragons rather than conventional defences.

I really hope they don't underplay the Starks for Targ wank.

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I recently finished a re-read of FnB, and I think my biggest issue with the Regency is that GRRM seems to “buy into” the Targaryens-are-closer-to-gods-than-men crap for true during this part. As much as I hated Unwin Peake, having Alyn Velaryon be this golden boy who succeeds at absolutely everything just because he’s naturally so awesome was just obnoxious after a while. (The one person who has the most potential to kick his ass—Dalton Greyjoy—conveniently dies before they meet).

But I think the grossest part was the Maiden’s Day Ball. There are hundreds of beautiful girls in the room, but then when the Valyrian girl shows up, she’s so perfect that everyone is stunned into silence and the morbid king is instantly taken with her, despite him being a teenage boy and her a six-year-old girl. Even if you want to argue that it was Rhaena and Baela’s approval that made him favor Daenaera, there’s still the matter that they believed this small child should marry their brother simply because she’s a Velaryon. The Targaryens like to keep it in the family, yeah, but everything about how the scene is written reinforces it from a third-party perspective. Apparently a fourteen-year-old boy would rather marry a little girl than someone his own age because Valyrian really is better. No one is good enough for a Targ except for another Targ, and FnB frames this as a victory.

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25 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Daemon sending his buddies to kill someone and they kill a child because he didn't specify who is way worse.

Oh, the way it might be going certainly would include him specifying who to kill. If the last scene is any indication then Rhaenyra is very angry now, so she might command that Luke be avenged. Daemon will promise her to see to it that it happens. He then will contact Mysaria, possibly through a messenger because he cannot go to KL personally (that would be a way to use Baela - she could fly across Blackwater Bay on Moondancer to meet with some representative of Mysaria's). Mysaria is then going to have to figure out a way how to get to the Green royal family and exact this revenge. She will be the one picking Blood and Cheese for that job ... and her commands might not be the same Rhaenyra gave to Daemon nor the same Daemon gave to Mysaria via messenger or letter.

Finally, there is the problem how to exact this revenge inside the Red Keep. They can get in but as FaB stated they could not get to Aegon II directly and then switched to another target. The show could have this all play out ... have them first trying to get to Aemond, then to Aegon, and then - once Mysaria starts to pressure them for results - decide to target Helaena and the children because while they were trying to get to Aegon/Aemond they picked up on Helaena's routines and realized that she and the children happened to be very easy targets.

That this whole thing wasn't exactly well-planned and that neither Blood and Cheese nor Mysaria checked back with Daemon or Rhaenyra once they had access to the castle is pretty clear. They could have taken out Alicent, Helaena, the children, and Otto Hightower ... but they just killed one innocent child.

In the show context we can be sure that Rhaenyra and Daemon both would have preferred it if Otto and Alicent had been killed or abducted rather than Helaena traumatized and one of her children murdered.

Because that could just continue to escalate the war ... while not really giving them an advantage. Doing something else with this exclusive access they had there could have given them a massive advantage, possibly even deciding the war.

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So this is my first time posting here in years (new account, obviously), but I will say that, concerning F&B, I still can get over this feeling that whatever sort of relationship GRRM orginally had in mind with Rhaenyra-Alicent is in no way, shape or form what the show is trying to present. I never got the feeling that they were quite close before the Black / Green debacle; I saw them as a (young) stepmom and stepdaughter kind of thing. Both of them being besties, I feel, is an HBO invention (with the consent of GRRM, of course), same thing Larys and his fetish (if it turns out to be true). On the other hand, if the rumours are true, what will happen between Rhaenyra and Criston Cole is almost the exact same thing I had suspected.

 

Edited by zajaz
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12 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I recently finished a re-read of FnB, and I think my biggest issue with the Regency is that GRRM seems to “buy into” the Targaryens-are-closer-to-gods-than-men crap for true during this part. As much as I hated Unwin Peake, having Alyn Velaryon be this golden boy who succeeds at absolutely everything just because he’s naturally so awesome was just obnoxious after a while. (The one person who has the most potential to kick his ass—Dalton Greyjoy—conveniently dies before they meet).

But I think the grossest part was the Maiden’s Day Ball. There are hundreds of beautiful girls in the room, but then when the Valyrian girl shows up, she’s so perfect that everyone is stunned into silence and the morbid king is instantly taken with her, despite him being a teenage boy and her a six-year-old girl. Even if you want to argue that it was Rhaena and Baela’s approval that made him favor Daenaera, there’s still the matter that they believed this small child should marry their brother simply because she’s a Velaryon. The Targaryens like to keep it in the family, yeah, but everything about how the scene is written reinforces it from a third-party perspective. Apparently a fourteen-year-old boy would rather marry a little girl than someone his own age because Valyrian really is better. No one is good enough for a Targ except for another Targ, and FnB frames this as a victory.

I think there George-Gyldayn really go to you. That's definitely Gyldayn's voice there. And I think it is completely wrong in context there to go with the general reading that the king chose his bride at the ball, being stunned by her beauty. That's the author following the standard narrative spread by the many people who were at the ball. The truth likely is that Baela and Alyn decided that they would marry Aegon to Daenaera ... and arranged that marriage with Rhaena's and Corwyn's help behind the scenes. Before the ball actually took place. Aegon III was told by his half-sisters who to marry ... he didn't make that choice himself (although I imagine he must have liked Daenaera well enough - but the ones he pleased with his 'choice' wasn't the little girl but his half-sisters).

Also, and in context, this certainly was a successful power grab on the side of Baela/Alyn - they ensured that Aegon III would only be able to father an heir nearly ten years later ... meaning the throne got a lot closer to Baela and Rhaena and whatever sons they might have. Sure enough, Alyn shows that he isn't truly after the throne when he brings Viserys back ... but it he certainly wants to strengthen his and Baela's position by making the new queen a Velaryon.

Gyldayn has little issue with 'Targaryen specialness' considering he writes a book about then ... and his condenscending tone is also present when the bastard dragonseeds are discussed, especially Hugh and Ulf. They are bad because they are commoners who overreach themselves ... never mind that the mighty Conqueror was a foreigner with a ragged army who had no claim at all to Westeros.

Unwin Peake certainly is a piece of work but he just plays the same game as the other lords and the royals. What makes him deplorable in the eyes of the author there is that he is overreaching himself. He wasn't actually a bad ruler - after all, even after the whole Secret Siege thing did pretty big portion of the lords at the informal Great Council support the idea that he should return as Hand.

George also deconstructs the specialness of the Targaryens by giving us the enmity towards the Rogares in great detail ... who are basically just Targaryens speaking Lysene Valyrian. The xenophobia there (I'd say Manderly's condemnation of one Larra's banker brothers borders on medieval antisemitism - you get punished for the crime of being a Jew Lyseni) and superstition towards Larra's religion is nearly unbearable ... but if you imagine that they would have have all looked the same it is the utmost hypocrisy.

In context it is quite telling that the FaB illustrations did not depict Larra's brothers as prototypical Valyrians - which they are - but as dark-haired, foreign looking men. Like slimy Jewish or Italian bankers.

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7 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So this is my first time posting here in years (new account, obviously), but I will say that, concerning F&B, I still can get over this feeling that whatever sort of relationship GRRM orginally had in mind with Rhaenyra-Alicent is in no way, shape or form what the show is trying to present. I never got the feeling that they were quite close before the Black / Green debacle; I saw them as a (young) stepmom and stepdaughter kind of thing. Both of them being besties, I feel, is an HBO invention (with the consent of GRRM, of course), same thing Larys and his fetish (if it turns out to be true). On the other hand, if the rumours are true, what will happen between Rhaenyra and Criston Cole is almost the exact same thing I had suspected.

They are not besties in the book as far as we know, but they are friends and try to remain friends after the wedding. Their relationship slowly deteriorates.

Rhaenyra didn't view Alicent as 'an evil stepmother' who tried to steal her father away from her or anything like that. Nor did Alicent start with the agenda to push Rhaenyra out of her father's heart to replace her with her own children.

Going with a more antagonistic or even neutral setting would give the entire remarriage of Viserys I a different spin. It would either never happen/very difficult to explain why it happens, and the relationship between the parties involved would be very bad much earlier.

Larys-Alicent never so much as interact in the book up until Aegon II is restored to the throne at the end of the Dance, so we have no idea what kind of relationship they had. That is certainly an addition, but something that can work. The dynamic in the first season certainly seems to be that Alicent kind of dominates and exploits Larys ... but we know that this is going to change overtime. Not only does Larys not save Alicent from Rhaenyra's forces (he only gets Aegon II and his children out of the Red Keep), he also puts his own puppet on the throne for a time and eventually plots the death of Aegon II and has Alicent imprisoned.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think there George-Gyldayn really go to you. That's definitely Gyldayn's voice there. And I think it is completely wrong in context there to go with the general reading that the king chose his bride at the ball, being stunned by her beauty. That's the author following the standard narrative spread by the many people who were at the ball. The truth likely is that Baela and Alyn decided that they would marry Aegon to Daenaera ... and arranged that marriage with Rhaena's and Corwyn's help behind the scenes. Before the ball actually took place. Aegon III was told by his half-sisters who to marry ... he didn't make that choice himself (although I imagine he must have liked Daenaera well enough - but the ones he pleased with his 'choice' wasn't the little girl but his half-sisters).

Also, and in context, this certainly was a successful power grab on the side of Baela/Alyn - they ensured that Aegon III would only be able to father an heir nearly ten years later ... meaning the throne got a lot closer to Baela and Rhaena and whatever sons they might have. Sure enough, Alyn shows that he isn't truly after the throne when he brings Viserys back ... but it he certainly wants to strengthen his and Baela's position by making the new queen a Velaryon.

Gyldayn has little issue with 'Targaryen specialness' considering he writes a book about then ... and his condenscending tone is also present when the bastard dragonseeds are discussed, especially Hugh and Ulf. They are bad because they are commoners who overreach themselves ... never mind that the mighty Conqueror was a foreigner with a ragged army who had no claim at all to Westeros.

Unwin Peake certainly is a piece of work but he just plays the same game as the other lords and the royals. What makes him deplorable in the eyes of the author there is that he is overreaching himself. He wasn't actually a bad ruler - after all, even after the whole Secret Siege thing did pretty big portion of the lords at the informal Great Council support the idea that he should return as Hand.

George also deconstructs the specialness of the Targaryens by giving us the enmity towards the Rogares in great detail ... who are basically just Targaryens speaking Lysene Valyrian. The xenophobia there (I'd say Manderly's condemnation of one Larra's banker brothers borders on medieval antisemitism - you get punished for the crime of being a Jew Lyseni) and superstition towards Larra's religion is nearly unbearable ... but if you imagine that they would have have all looked the same it is the utmost hypocrisy.

In context it is quite telling that the FaB illustrations did not depict Larra's brothers as prototypical Valyrians - which they are - but as dark-haired, foreign looking men. Like slimy Jewish or Italian bankers.

I disagree. For most of FnB, Valyrian blood supremacy was clearly not to be taken at face value (ex. J/A coming up with the Doctrine of Exceptionalism only for their daughter to die of plague a few years later, followed by the deaths of ten other children). I think the last few chapters of FnB are the one time the author didn’t manage to strike the balance. 

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I disagree. For most of FnB, Valyrian blood supremacy was clearly not to be taken at face value (ex. J/A coming up with the Doctrine of Exceptionalism only for their daughter to die of plague a few years later, followed by the deaths of ten other children). I think the last few chapters of FnB are the one time the author didn’t manage to strike the balance. 

Gyldayn tells us about Jaehaerys' own doubts about his Doctrine ... but he doesn't say he agrees with his assessment, or does he? He could also have gleefully talked about every Targaryen child dying in the cradle or being stillborn or about every Targaryen dying of a  disease (he says Aegon III died of consumption which would mean tuberculosis, Visenya seems to have died of a cancer-like disease, Viserys I of cardiovascular disease, the Conqueror had a stroke, Aenys some stomach disease, Rhaena died early of something as well, Maegelle caught greyscale, etc.). The whole 'Targaryens don't get sick' routine was never true. But Gyldayn glosses this over insofar as he doesn't cite this as proof the Doctrine is bogus.

The reader can take away that the Doctrine is invented nonsense, just like real world medieval concepts about special royal or noble blood and the mysticism of divine kingship ... but the author doesn't say this.

And to be clear - Daenaera is just beautiful, no Targaryen. And Alyn even less so, considering his maternal parentage. He is a larger-than-life figure, though, the second most famous Velaryon, and that creeps into the description of his early exploits.

Edited by Lord Varys
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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I recently finished a re-read of FnB, and I think my biggest issue with the Regency is that GRRM seems to “buy into” the Targaryens-are-closer-to-gods-than-men crap for true during this part. As much as I hated Unwin Peake, having Alyn Velaryon be this golden boy who succeeds at absolutely everything just because he’s naturally so awesome was just obnoxious after a while. (The one person who has the most potential to kick his ass—Dalton Greyjoy—conveniently dies before they meet).

But I think the grossest part was the Maiden’s Day Ball. There are hundreds of beautiful girls in the room, but then when the Valyrian girl shows up, she’s so perfect that everyone is stunned into silence and the morbid king is instantly taken with her, despite him being a teenage boy and her a six-year-old girl. Even if you want to argue that it was Rhaena and Baela’s approval that made him favor Daenaera, there’s still the matter that they believed this small child should marry their brother simply because she’s a Velaryon. The Targaryens like to keep it in the family, yeah, but everything about how the scene is written reinforces it from a third-party perspective. Apparently a fourteen-year-old boy would rather marry a little girl than someone his own age because Valyrian really is better. No one is good enough for a Targ except for another Targ, and FnB frames this as a victory.

Until George writes otherwise, my headcanon is Aegon III chose her purely out of a precocious and entirely justified spite to ruin Peake.

Especially since he was Tanya Harding all those other girls.

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46 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They are not besties in the book as far as we know, but they are friends and try to remain friends after the wedding. Their relationship slowly deteriorates.

I wonder if this is the "sapphic moment" described.

https://i.imgur.com/AvDo5FK.jpg

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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I had previously written it'll be prophesy that drives Dany north and to Jon (for the purpose of getting pregnant by him). That the Targs are relaying secret knowledge down generations of their role in saving the world will no doubt make it to Dany (and through her to Jon) in the series, this is what it's for. Marwyn has 3 pages of Signs and Portents and is on his way to Dany, that'll be where the whole prophecy angle starts picking up steam.

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1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Until George writes otherwise, my headcanon is Aegon III chose her purely out of a precocious and entirely justified spite to ruin Peake.

Especially since he was Tanya Harding all those other girls.

On his own Aegon III would have easily 'chosen' Myrielle considering she was the girl he talked to the most. Sadly enough, Aegon III himself would have likely never freed himself from Peake. He has no quick or smart political mind, nor does he ever truly want to rule. If Viserys hadn't come back things may have gone very bad for him. His sisters would have tried to help him, but they were women and Alyn was away more often than not.

But it is quite ridiculous to assume that Daenaera would be chosen if the girls hadn't arranged that before. She was a preteen child ... and whatever he beauty was, it was the beauty of a six-year-old which is literally no beauty at all. The girls give their brother a clue when they tell him that have brought him his wife ... and Aegon was clearly happy that the ordeal was finally over.

That Peake - as the most powerful regent, the Hand, and the Protector of the Realm couldn't undo this shows that there were powerful factions at court who pushed this through. The same people earlier stopped the Myrielle Peake match, one assumes, and then teamed up with the half-sisters and their husbands to find a better suited bride. And there Daenaera's stunning Valyrian looks likely were what made her the lucky one rather than another Velaryon girl or a Celtigar, etc. because a Targaryen king needs a Targaryen queen ... if if none is available than at least who looks the part.

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I wonder if this is the "sapphic moment" described.

https://i.imgur.com/AvDo5FK.jpg

Oh, I think they are playing this up. They will be friends, close friends, who also happen to touch and care for each other. To dress and laugh and bathe together, etc. Although it would fit Rhaenyra's character if she was also attracted to Alicent sexually or romantically since there is this hint that she was 'more than fond' of Laena, meaning she may have had a thing for women as well we men. And about Alicent's sexual and romantic preferences we know nothing - the fact that she seems to have never loved Viserys in the book tells us only that ... not whether she liked or disliked men in general.

In a context where sexual attraction and desire is not framed and styled as an 'identity' but rather as something that can happen (which is how those things were seen in a medieval context) especially love and affection among women wasn't much of an issue.

George does this have in the books with Cersei and Margaery having companions sleeping with them in their bed, with Dany's 'assisted masturbation scene' with Irri - which doesn't mean Dany is 'gay' or 'bisexual' but rather that she had a servant help her masturbate while fantasizing about a man.

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On his own Aegon III would have easily 'chosen' Myrielle considering she was the girl he talked to the most. Sadly enough, Aegon III himself would have likely never freed himself from Peake. He has no quick or smart political mind, nor does he ever truly want to rule. If Viserys hadn't come back things may have gone very bad for him. His sisters would have tried to help him, but they were women and Alyn was away more often than not.

I think that rather greatly overestimates how much power Peake possesses as we see from his catastrophic fall from grace soon after. Aegon III was always a countdown until the time that he assumed true power as the King of Westeros and the moment he did, the regents utterly failed. As we see with Peake's "resignation" being so easily accepted, he was already someone who wasn't going to last long.

I also feel like Aegon III is underestimated for just how much of a dragon he was on the inside (as much as he'd hate that comparison). His handling of the secret siege and all his former oppressors was courageous as well as noble. He also smart enough to see through false confessions--something we struggle with today.

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17 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I think that rather greatly overestimates how much power Peake possesses as we see from his catastrophic fall from grace soon after. Aegon III was always a countdown until the time that he assumed true power as the King of Westeros and the moment he did, the regents utterly failed. As we see with Peake's "resignation" being so easily accepted, he was already someone who wasn't going to last long.

I also feel like Aegon III is underestimated for just how much of a dragon he was on the inside (as much as he'd hate that comparison). His handling of the secret siege and all his former oppressors was courageous as well as noble. He also smart enough to see through false confessions--something we struggle with today.

Not to hate on Aegon III, but it was Viserys who figured out Thaddeus Rowan was tortured into giving a fake confession, and it looks like he arranged the standoff in Maegor’s Holdfast too. Aegon’s better moments were when he visited the sick during the epidemic and his appointment on new councilors and kingsguard after Tyland died.

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4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

In context it is quite telling that the FaB illustrations did not depict Larra's brothers as prototypical Valyrians - which they are - but as dark-haired, foreign looking men. Like slimy Jewish or Italian bankers.

I'm sure this is just a mistake on the artist's side. It's not the only time that the illustrations don't match the book descriptions. Viserys still has all his fingers, the riders of Vhagar and Arrax have the wrong hair colour, Thaddeus Rowan is described as bald but has hair, and so on.

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4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

On his own Aegon III would have easily 'chosen' Myrielle considering she was the girl he talked to the most. Sadly enough, Aegon III himself would have likely never freed himself from Peake. He has no quick or smart political mind, nor does he ever truly want to rule. If Viserys hadn't come back things may have gone very bad for him. His sisters would have tried to help him, but they were women and Alyn was away more often than not.

But it is quite ridiculous to assume that Daenaera would be chosen if the girls hadn't arranged that before. She was a preteen child ... and whatever he beauty was, it was the beauty of a six-year-old which is literally no beauty at all. The girls give their brother a clue when they tell him that have brought him his wife ... and Aegon was clearly happy that the ordeal was finally over.

That Peake - as the most powerful regent, the Hand, and the Protector of the Realm couldn't undo this shows that there were powerful factions at court who pushed this through. The same people earlier stopped the Myrielle Peake match, one assumes, and then teamed up with the half-sisters and their husbands to find a better suited bride. And there Daenaera's stunning Valyrian looks likely were what made her the lucky one rather than another Velaryon girl or a Celtigar, etc. because a Targaryen king needs a Targaryen queen ... if if none is available than at least who looks the part.

Oh, I think they are playing this up. They will be friends, close friends, who also happen to touch and care for each other. To dress and laugh and bathe together, etc. Although it would fit Rhaenyra's character if she was also attracted to Alicent sexually or romantically since there is this hint that she was 'more than fond' of Laena, meaning she may have had a thing for women as well we men. And about Alicent's sexual and romantic preferences we know nothing - the fact that she seems to have never loved Viserys in the book tells us only that ... not whether she liked or disliked men in general.

In a context where sexual attraction and desire is not framed and styled as an 'identity' but rather as something that can happen (which is how those things were seen in a medieval context) especially love and affection among women wasn't much of an issue.

George does this have in the books with Cersei and Margaery having companions sleeping with them in their bed, with Dany's 'assisted masturbation scene' with Irri - which doesn't mean Dany is 'gay' or 'bisexual' but rather that she had a servant help her masturbate while fantasizing about a man.

I imagine that the general view in this world is that “real” sex requires a man, and that sexual activity between women is not thought terribly important.  A nobleman might get enraged at the thought of his wife sleeping with another man, while not caring very much what she does with handmaidens.

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8 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I don't agree with the line of thinking that it makes no sense if the Targ's knew about the Others because they weren't doing X, Y and Z in preparation?

The Targ side of things have so far hinted at The War for the Dawn, The Prince that Was Promised and the Three Headed Dragon (three heads have the dragon). That they're specifically up against the Others, necromancer Ice Demons invading from the north isn't necessarily the information their prophecies are giving, or indeed what the prophecy is really about. I expect the key elements of the prophecy will be there's a war for the dawn and the Targs are destined to save the world with a three headed dragon, and so it will make sense for the Targs to be focussed on dragons rather than conventional defences.

Them being lost as to where to begin when it comes to preparing for whatever form the threat would take is fair enough.

It's the successfully held royal secret part of this theory that doesn't seem all that likely to me. All these people prove themselves to the man, terrible secretkeepers throughout F&B. King's Landing is always presented a terrible place for keeping secrets for any amount of time. Jaehaerys imparts any number of embarrassing secrets about his daughters, his marriage and his relationship with his lords to his best friend Barth who would writes just about everything down. The other Septons, the grandmaesters and Mushrooms likewise unearth tons of sordid secrets about these people that they'd rather not get out. Robert's court is just the same. There are tons of secrets running around that could get tons of people killed, but nobody is successful in keeping it to their chosen secretkeepers for any amount of time. But in this no one evidently balked, not to anyone, no matter how drunk, depressed, hysterical or senile any of them got.

Passing on this notion of what Aegon conquered the Seven Kingdoms for could only have existed as an empty ritual between the king and the heir that not one person after Aegon I, cared one iota about, if that.

Edited by Denam_Pavel
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