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A few weeks ago, I asked what people who haven’t read the books think HOTD is about based on the trailer. Well, I just saw a headline with the title “House of the Dragon star talks about sibling rivalry between Rhaenyra and Daemon.” :lol:

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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So, how evil are they going to make Daemon Targaryen? He's involved in a lot of evil and shady shit in the books:

* Constantly cheating on his spouse. Plus trying to steal her property post-mortem.

* The "heir for a day" comment that is just dickish.

* Attempting to ruin Rhaenyra's reputation so he could marry her

* Possibly murdering Rhaenyra's husband to marry her.

* Blood and Cheese

How bad should the bad boy be?

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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Some more breadcrumbs, but not at great quality: 

First good look at Laenor and the boys.

Who did Mysaria’s actress piss off? It’s like she’s disappeared from all the marketing.

Rhaenyra’s saddle reminds of a roller coaster cart :P

This is such a minor rumor that I don’t think anyone will care: apparently that’s a boar Rhaenyra killed on a hunt that she’s hacking away at.

Rhaenyra has a line about not ruling through fear like a tyrant and. . . yeah. I never thought Rhaenyra was as bad as people make her out to be, but it’s like they’re deliberately trying to repeat Dany’s show arc. Maybe they’ll show Rhaenyra deciding not to rule with fear once everything goes to hell, but she still ends up getting murdered by an Aegon regardless, so what difference does it make? Rule through fear, get killed. Don’t rule through fear, get killed.

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17 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Some more breadcrumbs, but not at great quality:

Rhaenyra has a line about not ruling through fear like a tyrant and. . . yeah. I never thought Rhaenyra was as bad as people make her out to be, but it’s like they’re deliberately trying to repeat Dany’s show arc. Maybe they’ll show Rhaenyra deciding not to rule with fear once everything goes to hell, but she still ends up getting murdered by an Aegon regardless, so what difference does it make? Rule through fear, get killed. Don’t rule through fear, get killed.

I mean, people love Ned Stark and he died at the ax.

Jon Snow dies at the hands of the Nights Watch and is never coming back. :)

Tywin ruled through fear and died horribly.

Really, I think people overstate how much Rhaenyra's death will be a bad thing. It will be a very great tragedy.

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10 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean, people love Ned Stark and he died at the ax.

Jon Snow dies at the hands of the Nights Watch and is never coming back. :)

Tywin ruled through fear and died horribly.

Really, I think people overstate how much Rhaenyra's death will be a bad thing. It will be a very great tragedy.

It’s not her death on its own that’s the problem, it’s that it’s coming right after Daenerys’ heel turn. They have close to the same ending, and Dany’s was hugely unpopular.

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1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

So, how evil are they going to make Daemon Targaryen? He's involved in a lot of evil and shady shit in the books:

* Constantly cheating on his spouse. Plus trying to steal her property post-mortem.

* The "heir for a day" comment that is just dickish.

* Attempting to ruin Rhaenyra's reputation so he could marry her

* Possibly murdering Rhaenyra's husband to marry her.

* Blood and Cheese

How bad should the bad boy be?

Hopefully, not as evil as Tyrion or Sam Tarly (the two characters I hated the most in GOT).

Edited by SeanF
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17 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

This is a rather striking mistake, though. You don't have to be deep in the matter to know that Larra's brother should look like her rather than some exotic foreigner who isn't related to her at all ... and who looks like a clichéd oriental.

Sure, but as I said, there are a lot of mistakes you notice at first glance. I would like GRRM to take a more active part in the illustrating process. I don't expect him to sit next to the artist and point out that Tyland's nose is too big or whatever, but pointing out major mistakes when the illustrations are done would be great.

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Teams of people do look through the art, but ... you know, George missed our Targaryen dragon we had for years which he heartedly approved had four legs rather than two, so just because he looks through the art doesn't necessarily mean he's going to notice everything. Especially in something like F&B where we know a lot of the art was under a rushed approval because of the tight deadline.

We've done a lot to try and make TRotD as close to accurate as possible art-wise, with space for artist interpretation, but even there sometimes we realize too late that something escaped us after the fact. Sometimes we managed to get changes made, sometimes not. For example, there's a depiction of the Great Council of Harrenhal where the artist had Jaehaerys present, which we caught and just managed to get changed under the deadline .... by replacing him with Lord Strong, under the theory that as host of the event he would sort of preside (in an honorofic sense) over it. Not necessarily the best solution, but it's tough to get everything right when you're juggling scores of artworks and (in our case, not F&B's) dozens of artists, some of whom are brought very late in the process or who are running right to the razor's edge of the deadline.

Edited by Ran
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6 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It’s not her death on its own that’s the problem, it’s that it’s coming right after Daenerys’ heel turn. They have close to the same ending, and Dany’s was hugely unpopular.

judging by how people can't seem to figure out Rhaenyra and Daemon's relation based on interviews , trailer , etc , I 'd say they won't remember Dany's ending!

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6 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It’s not her death on its own that’s the problem, it’s that it’s coming right after Daenerys’ heel turn. They have close to the same ending, and Dany’s was hugely unpopular.

To be fair, that was because of a number of factors:

* All of Daenerys nastier qualities had been scrubbed to make her more likable and conventionally heroic.

* Her madness came out of nowhere and wasn't built up.

* The ending made it clear that it was MORALLY RIGHTEOUS to kill the heroine of the series up until that point.

I don't think Rhaenyra being killed by the show's villain will have the same outrage where the show's other lead killed her.

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1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

To be fair, that was because of a number of factors:

* All of Daenerys nastier qualities had been scrubbed to make her more likable and conventionally heroic.

* Her madness came out of nowhere and wasn't built up.

* The ending made it clear that it was MORALLY RIGHTEOUS to kill the heroine of the series up until that point.

I don't think Rhaenyra being killed by the show's villain will have the same outrage where the show's other lead killed her.

In general, I found Dany more likeable in the books than the show - until the last season, where I found her vilification so abrupt and contrived that I found myself increasingly sympathetic to her.

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9 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is such a minor rumor that I don’t think anyone will care: apparently that’s a boar Rhaenyra killed on a hunt that she’s hacking away at.

That boar thing is really ... well, one would wonder if they stole that from 'Becoming Elizabeth' if that were not very impossible due to the writing process being around the same. They have a hunting scene there where she savagely kills a stag.

I think if they wanted to go with animal symbolism go make it about something that involves the dragons.

9 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Rhaenyra has a line about not ruling through fear like a tyrant and. . . yeah. I never thought Rhaenyra was as bad as people make her out to be, but it’s like they’re deliberately trying to repeat Dany’s show arc. Maybe they’ll show Rhaenyra deciding not to rule with fear once everything goes to hell, but she still ends up getting murdered by an Aegon regardless, so what difference does it make? Rule through fear, get killed. Don’t rule through fear, get killed.

If they stick to the material then Rhaenyra is never going to be 'a tyrant' - she won't be depicted as such, although the whole financial measures may well make appear be like one (think how they apparently change or rather depict 'the heir for a day' line as Daemon giving an honest toast to his short-lived nephew which is then perceived by court, council, and king as mockery).

Objectively, Rhaenyra's story makes only a tragic figure starting with the riots, the Storming of the Dragonpit, and her subsequent flight to Dragonstone.

4 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Sure, but as I said, there are a lot of mistakes you notice at first glance. I would like GRRM to take a more active part in the illustrating process. I don't expect him to sit next to the artist and point out that Tyland's nose is too big or whatever, but pointing out major mistakes when the illustrations are done would be great.

Things like the very looks of people who are actually described in the book are the basis for any illustration.

For Targaryen illustrations in the future the standard take on them should be to draw faces and the like almost identitcal. Maegor and Aenys could look more or less identitical, aside from build, or their (facial) hair preferences. These people are so inbred that there is

3 hours ago, Ran said:

We've done a lot to try and make TRotD as close to accurate as possible art-wise, with space for artist interpretation, but even there sometimes we realize too late that something escaped us after the fact. Sometimes we managed to get changes made, sometimes not. For example, there's a depiction of the Great Council of Harrenhal where the artist had Jaehaerys present, which we caught and just managed to get changed under the deadline .... by replacing him with Lord Strong, under the theory that as host of the event he would sort of preside (in an honorofic sense) over it. Not necessarily the best solution, but it's tough to get everything right when you're juggling scores of artworks and (in our case, not F&B's) dozens of artists, some of whom are brought very late in the process or who are running right to the razor's edge of the deadline.

Well, there it might have been much easier to change the text claiming that Jaehaerys wasn't there. Sort of like it made sense with the execution of Triarch Horonno in TWoIaF - yes, as per ADwD the guy was ripped apart by only two war elephants, but the illustration depicts four. One could change that picture ... or one just amends the text to not specificy the number of war elephants so that there is no contradiction between text and illustration. After all, even in ADwD Horonno's fate is just a historical anecdote told to Tyrion by Haldon - if he may be wrong about Dance details, he may also be wrong about the number of elephants.

I mean, unless George told you who the Lord Strong was in 101 AC (we don't know) you replaced a character who may have been there, after all, with a guy we may not even know. Lyonel could have been the Lord of Harrenhal at that time ... or not.

And thinking about descriptions: Did you guys ever check with George how Alicent looks like? All depictions we have seen of her so far have her as dark-haired - which is well enough, I guess, although not that great a decision since all her four children seem to have inherited distinct Valyrian looks.

Guess the Lynesse woman could end up being Daeron's betrothed.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

there it might have been much easier to change the text claiming that Jaehaerys wasn't there.

The text does in fact say very clearly he was not present at the Great Council, as I noted the other day. But the artist still drew in Jaehaerys, and we still needed the piece of art so that's how we fixed it. (At least it wasn't three Jaehaerys's, the two fat ones to balance out the skinny one!)

George has seen a bunch of Alicent depictions between various artists and works and has had no remarks about her being uniformly depicted as non-blond.  One notices that TRotD did not cast her as blond, either, and actually seems to have gone more with how she's been depicted in certain ASoIaF official artworks.

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10 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean, if I were to make a change I would have had Aegon II and Aemond black haired.

Not Alicent fair.

It would have deepened their hatred of the Strong bastards (projection) and resentment of Daemon and Rhaenyra's children.

It does strike me as looking a little strange in the visual medium that Rhaenyra and Harwin’s children uniformly take after their dark-haired parent, while Viserys and Alicent’s all take after their silver-haired parent. 
 

I always found it interesting that Fire and Blood doesn’t give us much detail when it comes to the hair and eye colours of Viserys and Alicent’s descendants. Aegon II is said to resemble his father and Daeron to have the colouring of the blood of the dragon. Aemond replacing his eye with a sapphire may hint that they were blue. For Helaena, Jaehaerys, Jaehaera and Maelor we have no hint at all for their colouring. When so many Targaryens are described, and when the Valyrian looks of Alicent’s descendants could be used to further delegitimise Rhaenyra’s, the omission seems rather curious. I quite like the idea that (some of) Aemond, Helaena, and Helaena’s children looked more Hightower than Targaryen. The omission of these details could be another piece of anti-Rhaenyra manipulation of history, and might explain why the “Strong boys” theory didn’t actually seem very widely believed (or at least cared about) by contemporaries. 
 

Aegon and Aemond projecting insecurities about their appearance onto Rhaenyra’s kids, as you say, would be an interesting avenue to explore.

Alas, it looks like all our Hightower-Targaryens appear Valyrian. I guess they could give Daeron the Daring a Hightower look, even though he’s the most explicitly Valyrian-looking in the text. I always accidentally picture the Daerons as dark-haired for some reason, anyway. Maybe because of their later association with Dorne. 

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11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is such a minor rumor that I don’t think anyone will care: apparently that’s a boar Rhaenyra killed on a hunt that she’s hacking away at.

That's what I heard. She gets surprised by a boar while riding through the woods during the hunt episode but manages to slash it with a Valyrian steel dagger (which is so sharp you don't need much strength to carve someone really badly with it)

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