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Wheel of Time: The 2nd Turning (Book Spoilers Inclusive)


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26 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

I agree wholeheartedly! They already are having fun with a Tolkien adjacent 2nd age timeline. Why not mix it up in WoT-land! How about a friendly Trolloc and Nynaeve detective team? Whodunits are in this season.

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Narg said, "Narg smart. Narg know game afoot is!"

Nynaeve tugged her braid, knowing that Narg Holmes would understand the full meaning of the gesture in all of its nuances.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Argonath Diver said:

I agree wholeheartedly! They already are having fun with a Tolkien adjacent 2nd age timeline. Why not mix it up in WoT-land! How about a friendly Trolloc and Nynaeve detective team? Whodunits are in this season.

I would legitimately start enjoying this show if they stopped pretending they were adapting Jordan's Wheel of Time and went completely wild in this fashion.

Just as the criminal seems like they are getting away, Nynaeve cracks the case Colombo style and dramatically narrates how the villain's "tell" gave them away.

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Honestly, from the start, they should have said "a direct adaptation of WoT isn't going to work in this medium right now, with its limits, so we're going to show you another turning of the Wheel.

They had an in-universe reason to do whatever the fuck they wanted. They could have had a female Dragon Reborn with saidar being the Power that was tainted, if they wanted. 

They went on to produce something that fits neither bucket. 

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7 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Still no ETA for release? I figured that would've been announced at the panel.

 

The garbage disposal they use to write the script hasn't been meeting its deadlines. I heard they're in talks with a dumpster fire to Script Doctor it up, but one of the producers is partial to giving that job to a basket full of epileptic spiders so... stay tuned 

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11 minutes ago, Firebrand Jace said:

The garbage disposal they use to write the script hasn't been meeting its deadlines. I heard they're in talks with a dumpster fire to Script Doctor it up, but one of the producers is partial to giving that job to a basket full of epileptic spiders so... stay tuned 

Hooray!

My take is it is still being worked on?

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I think if they gave WoT the budget they gave RoP it would easily be a better show. The stuff they’re doing in RoP is pretty odd and completely different from the source material. Acting and dialogue is very mixed quality. WoT season one actually was a pretty good coverage of the book and followed it decently well. The place they diverged the most was the last episode and that got killed by Covid and lack or production costs for CGI. Leading to the circle scene and the bad ending of the show.

I think episode 1-2 were fine and 3-7 were quite good. The main issue is things looked a bit cheap and small which screams budget.  And episode 8 was yeah the issue. Also like to know at what point wtf happened with the Mat actor which added to the odd ending. But give WoT that money they have RoP and I’m fairly confident WoT would be well ahead since the biggest problem with the show was this overwhelmingly small sets and production.

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I wonder if people here would take the devil's bargain of entering a reality where David Benioff and Dan Weiss agreed to adapt WoT, producing 4 seasons of some of the best fantasy ever with the potential to really fumble down the line (although maybe not, since the books are all finished), or if they would stick with Judkin and crew for reliable mediocrity?

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I'm just unconvinced that any Wheel of Time show, no matter how talented the writers and how big the budget, is ever going to be some of the best fantasy TV ever. The Eye of the World and The Great Hunt were important for their time and can still read as pretty fun, but I don't think I could call them great or even very good books (though others might disagree with me). So that's a difficult starting point. Then you have to reckon with the fact that about half to a third of the whole book series is tedious filler. It's a show that requires constant re-writing of the story from the very beginning. And that will upset many book fans no matter what, as we've seen with the Witcher season 2.

I didn't think season one was particularly good, but it did have a few good episodes and I thought the writers made some interesting choices, especially in the Aes Sedai politics parts of the show. They also made some pretty bad ones (giving Perrin a wife just to kill her, barely developing Rand/Perrin/Egwene), but hopefully those have been a learning experience for the writers and they can at least make a fun and consistent season 2. But I'm really, really skeptical that anyone could turn these books into a masterpiece TV show.

 

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7 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I'm just unconvinced that any Wheel of Time show, no matter how talented the writers and how big the budget, is ever going to be some of the best fantasy TV ever.

I think this was my doubt from way back about it. Perhaps a long-running anime series would have worked, but live action with all the restrictions that puts on things? No, I don't really think it's possible. There's something about RJ's approach to telling the story that makes it hard to figure out how to connect all the dots on the screen. Well, that and the fact that, yes, there's a lot of filler (especially later) you have to figure out.

Game of Thrones really benefitted from GRRM having approached ASoIaF after having spent time in Hollywood and crafting the narrative in a deliberately cinematic way. 

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57 minutes ago, IFR said:

I wonder if people here would take the devil's bargain of entering a reality where David Benioff and Dan Weiss agreed to adapt WoT, producing 4 seasons of some of the best fantasy ever with the potential to really fumble down the line (although maybe not, since the books are all finished), or if they would stick with Judkin and crew for reliable mediocrity?

Yes I would take that bet.  The D's couldn't do worse than WOT or ROP so far, and the facts on the ground...GOT was very, very good when they still had books, suggest they would have done a much better job on these two properties, especially WOT where no 'freelancing' is even nececessary.

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What if someone were to rework the story and tell the WoT from a totally different viewpoint?  Focus on the big political stories... the Game of Houses before there was a Game of Thrones.  Then interweave the Two Rivers kids in a much reduced "B plot" until they step in as major players?  I wonder if a creative approach like that could have worked?  Obviously, book purists would rail against it, but I don't know that those changes would be worse than the changes we got.  :dunno: 

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

I think this was my doubt from way back about it. Perhaps a long-running anime series would have worked, but live action with all the restrictions that puts on things? No, I don't really think it's possible. There's something about RJ's approach to telling the story that makes it hard to figure out how to connect all the dots on the screen. Well, that and the fact that, yes, there's a lot of filler (especially later) you have to figure out.

Game of Thrones really benefitted from GRRM having approached ASoIaF after having spent time in Hollywood and crafting the narrative in a deliberately cinematic way. 

I don't buy it. House of the Dragon has been made into an excellent adaptation from material that doesn't even have any dialogue, thanks to great writing.

Good writers would be able to work around any issues imposed by the source material.

The writing for WoT is just bad, simple as. It has an inexperienced showrunner who's basically a puppet for Jennifer Salke, and anything she touches will be politically-infused garbage.

 

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31 minutes ago, Ran said:

The funny thing is, Sanderson believes that Jordan started to focus more on the politics and intrigue in WoT because of A Game of Thrones.

Really? Book 7 came out the same year as Game of Thrones. The Game of Houses was already pretty well established by then.

Truly, I think there is little comparison between the two "games". Jordan's is a way of life for nobles to gain favor and influence by giving and reading into subtle signals, while Martin's is much more end-goal oriented: Gain power through whatever means necessary. Political intrigue both, but played very differently. I enjoy both for how they playout in the stories. I just don't see much overlap.

If Sanderson is indeed correct (more likely scenario, I fully admit), how the hell was Elayne's ascent to the Lion Throne influenced by ASOIAF?  

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20 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

The Game of Houses was already pretty well established by then.

The Game of Houses was mostly notional Dune-like stuff up through, I think, the sixth book. But specifically I think he meant Elayne's whole arc trying to win the Lion Throne and the like, which while it seems a natural enough thing now was maybe not something Jordan thought of in that much detail until later and perhaps under the influence (as Sanderson says) of GRRM's writing.

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