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NBA 2022 off-season: the Durant Decision


DanteGabriel

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Offensively the Cavs just got a lot better.  Mitchell and Garland should be able to fit together, and now the offense has a lot more punch.  The offense was the main problem last year, and they've basically solved it.

The question is that defensively, this is an unusual team.  Mitchell and Garland are both 6-1.  Mobley and Allen are great defenders behind them, but are big men.  This means the Cavs are leaning away from the recent trend of interchangable defenders who can switch everything.  That simply isn't going to work.  Instead, the Cavs will need to run a defense where they are basically trying to cover up the holes created by Mitchell and Garland playing together.  Imagine a Cavs vs Celtics playoff series.  If the Celtics run out Tatum, Brown, Smart, Horford and Williams (last year's starters), then presumably Mitchell and Garland will cover...Brown and Smart?  Can they stop a Brown/Smart pick and roll?  Because they are giving away 4 and 5 inches respectively in those matchups, which is pretty uncomfortable.  And that's without any switching at all. 

CBS article on this topic.

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8 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I can't imagine any scenario where Mitchell is even the second best player on a team and they have a shot at winning. 

I think the Cavs are hoping he can be the second best player on offense (after Garland) and the third best player overall (after Garland and Mobley).  Which sounds realistic, if Garland and Mobley develop as we're hoping. 

I don't see any reason why Mitchell wouldn't be good enough to be third banana on a championship team.  Hopefully he can stay healthy. 

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4 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Kind of agree with him though in that the Knicks missed out.

They still have a decent team with some potentially good youngsters though. Was listening to the BS Podcast and apparently the Knicks offered Barrett, Quickley and 2 first round picks and Utah turned that down and then settled for this Cavs package.

No, it would have been a huge mistake for them to acquire Mitchell, especially if they were dead set on keeping RJ. Mitchell, RJ, Brunson and Randle collective is your entire cap and those parts don’t fit at all. The Knicks would have to bleed money to still be at best an easy second round knockout. The only team that should be mad today is the Heat because a collective of Butler, Bam and Mitchell with some of their nice role players could have made some noise in the East.  

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Barrett should have been in the deal in that scenario obviously. He was also offered, its being reported.

But at some point this week the Knicks decided the asking price was too much and extended Barrett and wanted to return to talks later. The Cavs snuck in. 

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I haven't watched any of the Cavs. Does Mitchell actually fit next to Garland on offense instead of just taking away minutes from Garland? I've watched quite a bit of the Jazz, and while Mitchell is very good at generating offense for himself, taking and making bad shots, he doesn't quite create for others. But his teammates are mostly passive or Gobert* so it might not be his fault.

Either way, he's at least be a good candidate to rest early and carry the bench when the starters rest. 

On defense it's hard to hide two players. Probably have to give up more shots and have Allen and Mobley cover the rest as best as they can. Against the Celtics, I'd put them on Smart and Horford. Horford can shoot right over them but you just have to hope he doesn't make them and also switch before he's in a position to post them up. The holes will be there, but they just have to contain the worst holes and hope the other team doesn't capitalise.

Also, the Suns made the finals. They didn't win, but that's a team whose three best players are an old CP3, Booker and Ayton. It's not unthinkable. 

*Would be interesting to see if Gobert's screens make a difference on both the Wolves and Mitchell on the Cavs.

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2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Offensively the Cavs just got a lot better.  Mitchell and Garland should be able to fit together, and now the offense has a lot more punch.  The offense was the main problem last year, and they've basically solved it.

The question is that defensively, this is an unusual team.  Mitchell and Garland are both 6-1.  Mobley and Allen are great defenders behind them, but are big men.  This means the Cavs are leaning away from the recent trend of interchangable defenders who can switch everything.  That simply isn't going to work.  Instead, the Cavs will need to run a defense where they are basically trying to cover up the holes created by Mitchell and Garland playing together.  Imagine a Cavs vs Celtics playoff series.  If the Celtics run out Tatum, Brown, Smart, Horford and Williams (last year's starters), then presumably Mitchell and Garland will cover...Brown and Smart?  Can they stop a Brown/Smart pick and roll?  Because they are giving away 4 and 5 inches respectively in those matchups, which is pretty uncomfortable.  And that's without any switching at all. 

CBS article on this topic.

Mobley isn’t a plodding big man.  One of his biggest strengths last year was his ability to switch onto wings and lock them down.  Allen is capable of doing this as well, albeit to a lesser degree. 

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50 minutes ago, briantw said:

Mobley isn’t a plodding big man.  One of his biggest strengths last year was his ability to switch onto wings and lock them down.  Allen is capable of doing this as well, albeit to a lesser degree. 

I didn't say he was plodding, but he is unquestionably a big man.  The Cavs are betting that they can mask the deficiencies of two undersized guards with strong defenders elsewhere (starting with Mobley).  That is something of a throwback approach to defense, where the big men were expected to do most of the work defensively.  In the last few years that approach has gotten somewhat exposed (see the failures of the Utah Jazz with 4 bad defenders + Gobert).  The Cavs have more than just one strong defender, so perhaps the wings and bigs can cover for the lack of frontcourt size.  But nonetheless, it's an unusual approach, and offers some real matchup questions, particularly against Boston.  The Cavs look much better (on paper anyway) against the Bucks or the Heat. 

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7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I didn't say he was plodding, but he is unquestionably a big man.  The Cavs are betting that they can mask the deficiencies of two undersized guards with strong defenders elsewhere (starting with Mobley).  That is something of a throwback approach to defense, where the big men were expected to do most of the work defensively.  In the last few years that approach has gotten somewhat exposed (see the failures of the Utah Jazz with 4 bad defenders + Gobert).  The Cavs have more than just one strong defender, so perhaps the wings and bigs can cover for the lack of frontcourt size.  But nonetheless, it's an unusual approach, and offers some real matchup questions, particularly against Boston.  The Cavs look much better (on paper anyway) against the Bucks or the Heat. 

It’s worth noting that, before Allen broke his finger and missed a large chunk of time toward the end of the season, the Cavs were a top five defense.  Mobley and Allen are a tough frontcourt because of their ability to switch and be versatile on defense.

What the Cavs need is for Mobley to eventually become a plus three point shooter.  

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3 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I think the Cavs are hoping he can be the second best player on offense (after Garland) and the third best player overall (after Garland and Mobley).  Which sounds realistic, if Garland and Mobley develop as we're hoping. 

I don't see any reason why Mitchell wouldn't be good enough to be third banana on a championship team.  Hopefully he can stay healthy. 

They gave up a lot for a 3rd best player. 

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12 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah definitely seems the Cavs should try to find an ace wing defender to put at 3.  As long as they do I think it can work.

Every team wants a wing who can play great defense and at least shoot 3s.  But finding that guy (particularly when you already have 4 all stars on the roster to pay) isn't going to be easy.  Caris Levert isn't a good defender either.  Isaac Okoro is an OK defender, but hardly a differencemaker on that end. 

6 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

They gave up a lot for a 3rd best player. 

It's the cost of doing business in the NBA.  Basically the same as what Bucks gave up for Jrue Holiday, and Holiday is third banana in Milwaukee.  I don't think they have any regrets.  Cleveland is betting on those picks being in the 20s, and thus not terribly valuable. 

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Mitchell could easily be a second banana on a championship team - if the first player is truly elite.  The Cavs core is much more equally distributed in terms of quality - there isn't much of a difference between Garland, Mitchell, and Mobley unless the latter takes a big leap - but that's worked before too plenty of times.

2 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Every team wants a wing who can play great defense and at least shoot 3s.

Sure, but it's substantially easier to find a good/great wing defender that's not so good at shooting threes.

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34 minutes ago, DMC said:

Sure, but it's substantially easier to find a good/great wing defender that's not so good at shooting threes.

That's true.  Al‑Farouq Aminu is a free agent and is only 32, and has consistently been a defensive stud.  But he's out of a job because he turns the ball over and his offense is terrible. 

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

Mitchell could easily be a second banana on a championship team - if the first player is truly elite.  The Cavs core is much more equally distributed in terms of quality - there isn't much of a difference between Garland, Mitchell, and Mobley unless the latter takes a big leap - but that's worked before too plenty of times.

Sure, but it's substantially easier to find a good/great wing defender that's not so good at shooting threes.

I think it’s reasonable to expect Mobley to take a leap.  He just turned 21 and is coming off a season where he was an elite defender as a rookie and a solid offensive player.  His ceiling is Duncan or Garnett, but with a three ball.  Whether he reaches it is the question. 

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10 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I think the Cavs overpaid to add a second tiny guard.

I will say Mitchell does have a nice 6'-10" wingspan so that helps compensate for his pedestrian 6'-1" height.

Still we will just have to play the games to see how it works for them.

Your first sentence is my main concern.

That being said, a huge problem for the Cavs last year is that they lacked a secondary playmaker after Rubio got hurt, and at this point he's just not a guy you can trust to stay healthy for an entire season.  The tail end of close games often found Darius Garland desperately trying to make something happen while the defense keyed in on him because no one else could consistently beat them.  Mitchell addresses that problem in a big way, and has performed at a high level in the playoffs.

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I'm watching Winning time, finding it more interesting than I originally thought.

Have you guys watched it, and what did you think?

I didnt watch any basketball in the 80's being a kid but this show, while taking many liberties apparently, is at the same time an interesting NBA history lesson for me. The Lakers-Celtics feud. Magic's rise. Kareem already being 32 at the start of the show in 1979 and then adding 9-10 more years to his career. The amusing character of Jerry West. Adrien Brody as a young Pat Riley is cool. I had never heard of Jack McKinney but the actor portrays him in a marvelous way, I had to google to see what happened after his bike accident.

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