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Homage to Homer


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Posted (edited)

Not Homer but Dostoevesky

In The Brothers Karamazov, Zosima dies and his corpse begins to stink during the funeral, since he was highly esteemed it causes quite a bit of a scandal. It's a big shock to Alyosha, who respected Zosima more than others and tried to emulate him. Tywin was highly feared (it meant respect in the medieval context), it was a shock to everyone when his corpse began to smell and it upset Cersei most of all...sniggers too

The Russian ones are saintly, the asoiaf ones are vile

LOTR Tywin Denethor

Back to Homer, Hermes/Jaqen

Edited by TheLastWolf
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Ok so this is really tenuous, but Bowen Marsh = Hades.

Hades lured Persephone into the Underworld with a pomegranate.

Bowen Marsh is a pomegranate who kills Jon (leads him into the underworld)

So...

Jon = Persephone

Persephone is a grain goddess and what does Mormont's Raven call Jon?

That's right, a corn king.

Persephone is a goddess of seasonal change as well, and what happens to the corn king? They are killed in autumn to bring spring the following year (I think, when I tried to look it up to confirm all the results were about a farming documentary).

But also, because Persephone ate the fruit of the underworld she was forever bound to it, in the same way many people speculate that Jon's death and resurrection will leave a permanent influence on him such as a personality change, removal as a POV character etc.

Of course the situation with Jon's mother is an inversion of the myth where everyone knows Demeter is her mother and it is the father that is not known/said (though some versions of the myth say Zeus is the father, could this potentially mean that Robert Baratheon is Jon's father after all?)

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Hades lured Persephone into the Underworld with a pomegranate.

Lyanna?

17 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Persephone is a grain goddess and what does Mormont's Raven call Jon?

That's right, a corn king.

Stupid me from so long ago

17 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Of course the situation with Jon's mother is an inversion of the myth where everyone knows Demeter is her mother and it is the father that is not known/said (though some versions of the myth say Zeus is the father, could this potentially mean that Robert Baratheon is Jon's father after all?)

I've been having such blasphemous thoughts too for a long-time, alternative theories to the RLJ parentage...

Edited by TheLastWolf
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12 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

I've been having such blasphemous thoughts too for a long-time, alternative theories to the RLJ parentage...

I don't think the timeline works for Robert at least and there are quite a few other issues with it, but it's always fun to speculate.

I think there are other, better fits for Persephone than Jon, but it's still fun to think about.

I don't really think RB will be revealed as Jon's father but he is the best Zeus parallel in the series, in my opinion.

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If any one character has a deeper thematic connection with Odysseus, it is Davos. We don't know exactly what's in store for our constantly adrift Lord Hand, but returning home to Betha is something that's in his thoughts quite a bit. My guess is that he will eventually abandon Stannis and head there.

Yes, Cersei's name always makes me think of Circe. And for one character, she does serve as a seductive distraction from a higher calling: Jaime.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/26/2022 at 8:05 AM, TheLastWolf said:

Odysseus tells that 'I am nobody" and kills the cyclops Polyphemus, s/o Poseidon, tricking the other blind giants into not responding to the victim's cries of help.

Arya in the HOBAW repeatedly says that she is 'no one'. And like the Cyclops, the only one-eyed character I could think of is Bloodraven (the rest are either dead or of too little significance). And he's a bastard/illegitimate son, much like the Cyclops are shitty offspring of Poseidon, unlike say Theseus. If/when Arya's arc brings her to Westeros and to the North (there's nothing for her South) and Beyond the Wall in the Others battle etc, Bloodraven, if he's the evil manipulative schemer I think him to be, will die at her hands. Foreshadowing, people!

Other Greek/Roman parallels are welcome, mainly from Homer's works there are many and I'll continue. With Tolkien's world having a lot of parallels, I don't think these epics are any exceptions.

* Belerion is a name for an Island near Cornwall mined for tin in Greek records. The Greeks also called the Island Albion, which has the root Alb- from which Elf comes from, and often means "white". Albion most likely is named for White Cliffs of Dover, but could also be translated as "Elf Lands".

 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ictis

Diodorus gives an account that is generally supposed to be a description of the working of Cornish tin at about the time of the voyage of Pytheas. He says:

The inhabitants of that part of Britain which is called Belerion are very fond of strangers and from their intercourse with foreign merchants are civilized in their manner of life.

 

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* The Greeks found England before Rome did, when the mythic Greek Princess Albina finds the Island and give it the name Albion, before the time of Brutus who named it Britain, and descended of Aeneas, the founder of Rome.

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This is Westeros with the Valyrians coming, and either Old Ghis, and or Yi-ti before them. 

 * The Andals are so named for the Vandals who invaded the Iberian peninsula. They were Viking raiders like the Anglo Saxons and Norwegians. All Germanic Tribes which is where Valyria comes from. As the Kjarr of Valland who ruled the Valir people in the Norse Saga's, is believed to be Caesar of Roman-Gaul. Valyria, just follows the naming convention the Romans used in Hibernia and Hispania. The Romans like the Valyrians built roads all over. Valyrians also comes from the Valerian flower, tying it to the Garth the Green Myth.

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Which comes from the legend of the Green Man in England.

 

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*The Theft of a bride or Maiden is in The Trojan War when Paris steals Hellen after the Golden Apple of Discord, resulting in the famous and beautiful Achilles dying by Arrow. This is in Norse myth in ways, with Loki the God of Mischief (Discordia) steals Idunn and her Golden Apples of Immortality. Loki also kills Baldur the beautiful with an Arrow. Which sets off the War of Ragnorak begin (The Trojan War?)

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The Age of Heroes is inspired by the Greek Age of Heroes that ended in the Trojan War and Odyssey. The Trojan War being the seeds of the founding of Rome (Valyria) and England (Westeros). I would guess that Old Ghis is Ancient Greece mixed with Egypt (Egypt had Male Sphinx while Greece has female Sphinx), while Yi-Ti is the Canaanite lands including Phoenicia (They had purple dye) and Israel. 

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Bloodraven is inspired by Odin, but the Wargs and Werewolves can be found as Lycans in Greek Myth. 
 

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Daenerys is inspired by Eosphorus (Lucifer/Jesus/Earendel/Aurvandil) and Venus (Aphrodite). Both Aphrodite and Eosphorus being the 13th generation of the House of Adam and Eve possibly as Iapetus is linked with Japheth of the Bible. Making Uranus, Noah who is tied to the flood myth. Along with the son of Iapetus, Deucalion. 
Noah is the 10th Generation of the line of Adam and Eve, who ate of a magic tree in a secret Grove (Garden).

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Eosphorus is Auzandil in Gothic. The S turns to a Z, while the R turns to a D.

This also happens in Ouranos (Uranus in Latin) to Wodanaz in Germanic (Odin).

Odin flooded the world after killing Ymir (Cut up) . Uranus is tied to a flood of sorts when castrated (Cut up). Then obviously Noah is tied to the flood myth.

The theft of Prometheus can be seen in the Grey Kings legend on Iron Islands. Which the Iron Islands seem to be based on the Faroe Islands North of England.
 

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Greeks had dragons like Ladon also.

 

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Im sure there are others im forgetting.

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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So, this Trojan War was held near a mouth into the Black Sea, Which the Trojans likely controlled and blocked. The Greeks would defeat them and make colonies within the Black Sea, Including along the Tanais River where Snorri list Odin as coming from in the Ynglinga Sagas. Listing Vanaheim as West of the River and Azgard as East of the River. One could theorize that this is where the social interaction between Greeks and Germanic tribes first began. The Elder Futhark is descended some way via the Phoenician letters which also Inspired the Greeks. The Phoenicians had purple dye.

 

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Jesus from the Canaan lands was the self proclaimed "Morning Star", of which Eosphorus is. His cognate Earendel is used for Christ in an Old English poem called Christ I. Its from Eosphorus other name, phosphorus in which Lucifer comes. The Light Bearer and Day Star. 

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The Morning Star Sirius ties into the Dog Days of Summer and could be tied to the Starks. Who may come from Valyria too. Sirius is known as the Dog Star. Sirius is part of the Two Hounds that accompany the Hunter Orion Constellation. Which actually has Two of the Three Morning Stars. Sirius, and Rigel. Rigel being the blue star that makes the foot of Orion, and known in Norse myth as Aurvandil's toe. Aurvandil being Eosphorus, the Morning Star. The Third Morning Star and most important probably is Venus, Aphrodite)

The Starks are described as having "Stern faces"

Stern is the German word for "Star", suggesting a connection to House Dayne.

 

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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Its not Greek, but Hebrew. I thought it was interesting though.

Daenerys is a name of English origins. In the Hebrew language, it is derived from 'daen', meaning 'God is my judge' and in Greek, 'erys' is derived from Eris, which was the name of the goddess of destruction. Therefore, the meaning of the name is stated to be 'God is the judge of my destruction'.

 

(Idk if this actually Inspired Martin.    Daenerys is a homophone for Dayne-Heiress, which would suggest she belongs to House Dayne and Ashara possibly. Who knows tho)

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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