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US politics: calm blue waters


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12 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

Until he was defeated by Uncle Joe, Big Donald was invulnerable. And with this raid targeted at a former US President, unprecedented and with so many potentially nation-shaking future events, the raid was most likely warranted. It makes me wonder how much risk he's holding right now; and if it would put an end to his 2024 run. Exciting!!

For everything there is a First time…

Can you name another President who took 25 boxes of materials that are supposed to be documented by the National Archives (in violation of a law Trump signed himself) including classified information with him when he left the White House?

Are you suggesting that this shouldn’t be investigated and the possession of this information isn’t in contravention of Federal law?

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1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

For everything there is a First time…

Can you name another President who took 25 boxes of materials that are supposed to be documented by the National Archives (in violation of a law Trump signed himself) including classified information with him when he left the White House?

Are you suggesting that this shouldn’t be investigated and the possession of this information isn’t in contravention of Federal law?

Ser Scot A Ellison -- yes, and it's always an interesting thing to see, a monumental event in this case. And I'm reading a lot of words about this being a Crossing the Rubicon moment -- but not by way of Big Donald, but the establishment (FBI, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if more powerful leaders knew and pushed it). The payoff is massive, for the side that comes out on top -- I just don't know who it will be.

Am I suggesting it shouldn't be investigated? Hmm, that's a great question ... you remind me of the time my office was raided by US Army counterintelligence, and I was investigated for an alleged mishandling of classified documents, while doing civ-mil operations in Afghanistan. I was effectively confined to the FOB and not allowed to do my job for two months, awaiting the findings and subsequent judgement. I was found guilty, of course, because I was. A month later we redeployed, whence I was punished with a Bronze Star and a top 10% evaluation before being moved to a higher position. I wonder what a former President will get slammed with.

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16 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

Ser Scot A Ellison -- yes, and it's always an interesting thing to see, a monumental event in this case. And I'm reading a lot of words about this being a Crossing the Rubicon moment -- but not by way of Big Donald, but the establishment (FBI, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if more powerful leaders knew and pushed it). The payoff is massive, for the side that comes out on top -- I just don't know who it will be.

Am I suggesting it shouldn't be investigated? Hmm, that's a great question ... you remind me of the time my office was raided by US Army counterintelligence, and I was investigated for an alleged mishandling of classified documents, while doing civ-mil operations in Afghanistan. I was effectively confined to the FOB and not allowed to do my job for two months, awaiting the findings and subsequent judgement. I was found guilty, of course, because I was. A month later we redeployed, whence I was punished with a Bronze Star and a top 10% evaluation before being moved to a higher position. I wonder what a former President will get slammed with.

If he violated the law he signed… hopefully jail time and an inability to ever run for another federal office.  :)

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1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

If he violated the law he signed… hopefully jail time and an inability to ever run for another federal office.  :)

Ser Scot A Ellison -- that consequence it would be ironic, something I always appreciate. And the implications are unbelievably yuge, with the rewards off the scale for the side who wins. The Judicial or the Executive? The establishment or the underdog? The Blue or the Orange?!?

Much historical!

I. Can't. Wait.

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2 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

Ser Scot A Ellison -- that consequence it would be ironic, something I always appreciate. And the implications are unbelievably yuge, with the rewards off the scale for the side who wins. The Judicial or the Executive? The establishment or the underdog? The Blue or the Orange?!?

Much historical!

I. Can't. Wait.

Neither can I.  As for the “Civil War Porn” coming from the supporters of the losing one term former President who lives in Florida and loves the Russian dictator… yeah they’re fucking pathetic. 

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Neither can I.  As for the “Civil War Porn” coming from the supporters of the losing one term former President who lives in Florida and loves the Russian dictator… yeah they’re fucking pathetic. 

Ser Scot Ellison -- I don't think there's a chance for civil war, no matter what the result is. If the establishment wins, it will eventually die down and the country will continue its slow decline. On the other hand, if Big Donald wins edited: and is able to run in 2024, I can imagine substantial strife in the streets and social fracture.

In any case, entertaining discussion -- informed my thoughts significantly.

Edited by Wade1865
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38 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

Ser Scot Ellison -- I don't think there's a chance for civil war, no matter what the result is. If the establishment wins, it will eventually die down and the country will continue its slow decline. On the other hand, if Big Donald wins edited: and is able to run in 2024, I can imagine substantial strife in the streets and social fracture.

In any case, entertaining discussion -- informed my thoughts significantly.

So… the supporters of the losing one term former President who lives in Florida and loves the Russian dictator… are all talk when they call for “Civil War” on “Gab” and “Truth Social”?

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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Civil war over this likely not, but it could be just another factor that could add to the pretext of a civil war down the line. A potential localized uprising (several locations, not just one) could happen should the former be indicted. We saw how eager some people were to come and protest the FBI's actions. 

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Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

So… the supports of the losing one term former President who lives in Florida and loves the Russian dictator… are all talk when they call for “Civil War” on “Gab” and “Truth Social”?

Ser Scot A Ellison -- I'm not tracking Gab or Truth Social discussions. I don't spend time on those platforms, but I take your word they're plotting? or agitating? for revenge. If so, they're misguided, and I doubt they'll organize and radicalize, which is more of a left wing tendency (and strength). The country belongs to them -- the left -- an inevitability. If anyone takes revenge, it will be them.

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5 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

Student debt payments resume in three weeks.  Does this admin do anything before then?  Seems they are kind of fucked either way midterms wise, might as well do it now and help millions of people out.  

Larry of the Lake -- I'm a bit surprised Uncle Joe hasn't done more. It would be a wise decision, and the right thing to do. The loans should never have been offered in the way they were and too many people are suffering for them. The USG and academia should really resolve it. What's stopping Uncle Joe -- the moneyed interest, I assume.

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1 minute ago, Wade1865 said:

Ser Scot A Ellison -- I'm not tracking Gab or Truth Social discussions. I don't spend time on those platforms, but I take your word they're plotting? or agitating? for revenge. If so, they're misguided, and I doubt they'll organize and radicalize, which is more of a left wing tendency (and strength). The country belongs to them -- the left -- an inevitability. If anyone takes revenge, it will be them.

"The country belongs to them -- the left -- an inevitability." Curious what makes you say that? Economically the US has been moving right for years, wealth is becoming more and more concentrated to the top, any institutiobal reforms have largely been privatized (ACA).  We've moved left on a few social issues in certain areas but it's difficult seeing this country "belonging to the left". 

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Nebraska woman charged with helping daughter have abortion
Investigators uncovered Facebook messages in which the two allegedly discussed using medication to induce an abortion.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/nebraska-woman-charged-with-helping-daughter-have-abortion-00050763

Quote

 

OMAHA, Nebraska — A Nebraska woman has been charged with helping her teenage daughter end her pregnancy at about 24 weeks after investigators uncovered Facebook messages in which the two discussed using medication to induce an abortion and plans to burn the fetus afterward.

The prosecutor handling the case said it’s the first time he has charged anyone for illegally performing an abortion after 20 weeks, a restriction that was passed in 2010. Before the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June, states weren’t allowed to enforce abortion bans until the point at which a fetus is considered viable outside the womb, at roughly 24 weeks.


In one of the Facebook messages, Jessica Burgess, 41, tells her then 17-year-old daughter that she has obtained abortion pills for her and gives her instructions on how to take them to end the pregnancy.


The daughter, meanwhile, “talks about how she can’t wait to get the ‘thing’ out of her body,” a detective wrote in court documents. “I will finally be able to wear jeans,” she says in one of the messages. Law enforcement authorities obtained the messages with a search warrant, and detailed some of them in court documents.

In early June, the mother and daughter were only charged with a single felony for removing, concealing or abandoning a body, and two misdemeanors: concealing the death of another person and false reporting. It wasn’t until about a month later, after investigators reviewed the private Facebook messages, that they added the felony abortion-related charges against the mother. The daughter, who is now 18, is being charged as an adult at prosecutors’ request.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

"The country belongs to them -- the left -- an inevitability." Curious what makes you say that? Economically the US has been moving right for years, wealth is becoming more and more concentrated to the top, any institutiobal reforms have largely been privatized (ACA).  We've moved left on a few social issues in certain areas but it's difficult seeing this country "belonging to the left". 

Larry of the Lake -- so, I look at it from a social perspective, on why the the left (the progressive) is an inevitability. They, in whatever form, has won every single social justice movement it has championed, starting as early as 1783, to 1865, to 1945, and finally even to some degree in 2020 when Big Donald was defeated.

Although many on the left complain how poor social conditions are, I don't think they're considering the differences between those earlier years with today -- and they're decisive. On the other side, all conservative movements (most notably contemporaries), in whatever form they take (e.g. Tea Party, Oath Keepers, III-%, Proud Boys, Alt-Right, Trumpists, et al.) have been marginalized despite the fact that when they do fight in the streets, they usually win. Winning street battles, however, does not ensure winning what's really a (social, or cultural) war.

The left has the advatage in terms of organization, radicalization, population, and even seem to have more political support. Moreover, the Millennials, team-oriented with dreams of changing the world are mostly left leaning collectivists when compared to my own Gen-X individualists and Boomers. The Millenial will soon assume primary control of the government, much more so than even the Xers. The conservative as we knew them in the past, and even the "conservative-lite" of today, are absolutely fucked, and will have to evolve leftward or be marginalized.

The economic perspective you mentioned, where wealth is being concentrated, only reinforces my thoughts in that it's causing wealth inequality to go through the roof -- a prime motivator of the left. And you can see the moneyed interest's concerns by how they pander to social justice causes (e.g. minorities, socialized benefits, immigration, LGTBQ+, et al. sub-populations). The real power-holders in this country -- the moneyed interest -- is almost all aligned with the left, with the one exception I know, Elon Musk, who is increasingly hammered as he demonstrates his socio-political leanings.

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42 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:


Nebraska woman charged with helping daughter have abortion
Investigators uncovered Facebook messages in which the two allegedly discussed using medication to induce an abortion.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/nebraska-woman-charged-with-helping-daughter-have-abortion-00050763

 

I'm not sure why this is news. Ban on third-trimester abortions without medical need is a longstanding law pretty much everywhere (with good reason IMO), and Facebook followed an official court search warrant.

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24 minutes ago, Gorn said:

I'm not sure why this is news. Ban on third-trimester abortions without medical need is a longstanding law pretty much everywhere (with good reason IMO), and Facebook followed an official court search warrant.

Social media providing information on abortions to authorities has been a worry for a while now. Maybe it's not a worry to you though. 

Also, Meta claims they didn't know it was about abortion. They were told it involved "skeletal remains." Are they telling the truth? And if they did know would they have acted different?

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46 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

"The Mob takes the Fifth."

Today, he said he pleaded the Fifth during his deposition for the NY GA's civil probe.

We’re all shocked to see the losing one term former President who lives in Florida and loves the Russian dictator… plead the 5th… aren’t we?

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