US politics: calm blue waters

[Myshkin]

Is The Donald fucked? (Gross. Note to self: never use “Donald” and “fucked” in the same sentence). For the first time I have hope that maybe he is. Will the Trumpistas ever admit that The Donald fucked them along with the rest of us? (Shit. Note to self: review previous note to self). Unlikely.

[Mindwalker]

I'm not sure who's more dangerous: the MAGAs and grifters who defend him, or the so-called liberal msm who claim that even if he'd sold top secret stuff to the Russians, no matter what he did, he should not be prosecuted, because THAT would kill democracy.

Scratch that, I know exactly who, and it ain't his loyal deplorables.

[Mindwalker]

8 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Is The Donald fucked? (Gross. Note to self: never use “Donald” and “fucked” in the same sentence). For the first time I have hope that maybe he is. Will the Trumpistas ever admit that The Donald fucked them along with the rest of us? (Shit. Note to self: review previous note to self). Unlikely.

1. I'll believe it when I see it. (ugh. thx for the gross imagery.)

2. No.

ETA: The judge has issued the order to unseal the warrant.

[Argonath Diver]

Well, we have a direct example in this very thread the last few days of what a Trump supporter is willing to cover their ears to ignore.

I assume we're getting into that grey area for Trumpets beyond "He is not a criminal - it's a set-up!" to full blown "It's the laws that are wrong, Trump is above them and we'll die attacking FBI facilities to support him."

... wait we reached that already? I've been paying too much attention to baseball.

[Mindwalker]

6 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

Well, we have a direct example in this very thread the last few days of what a Trump supporter is willing to cover their ears to ignore.

 

Sure, but those people are lost anyway. No need to waste any time with them.

[DMC]

It's quite ironic that the Espionage Act has a very storied history of actual political persecution.

[DMC]

The Hill published the warrant.

[Kalbear]

Oh good, a memo labeled re: President of France is going to be great news

I also appreciate that the boxes of top secret material are labeled the same way I did moving back in my 20s: "MISC KITCHEN, MISC TS/CI"

[Wade1865]

30 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Is The Donald fucked?

Myshkin -- one way or the other, the God Emperor is effectively done, politically. Is it not obvious, or are you conveying the uncertainty of the hopeful? There's a certainty he won't win re-election (imo); the question is, will he be allowed to run. I say, let him run!

21 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

Well, we have a direct example in this very thread the last few days of what a Trump supporter is willing to cover their ears to ignore.

Argonath Diver -- are you talking about me? I never voted for him. My eyes are wide open, and I haven't seen any actual support for him on this board, though in the real world he still has many. And sure, I admit I think he's a good guy, but I'd never work for him (and for good reason, I know his character). What I really want to see is the match of the century! I want to be entertained..

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's quite ironic that the Espionage Act has a very storied history of actual political persecution.

DMC -- most people are understandably waiting to see, but this looks like the best chance to end his 2024 run. The raid wouldn't have taken place against a former president unless there was some substance. I give it a 51% chance of success he won't be able to run again (the oddsmakers I read gave him a better chance last time I checked). I'm not willing to bet money on either side yet, though.

[Mindwalker]

OT: Does anyone else have the problem that when you hit reply, a quote you already posted shows up in the box?

***

Nvm, he hadn't seen the warrant yet.

 

 

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, Mindwalker said:

OT: Does anyone else have the problem that when you hit reply, a quote you already posted shows up in the box?

if that happens look to see if there is an option at the bottom of the box to X it out.  The writing for that is faint and hard to see.  Also, I backspace to delete the old quote, or delete it if I can, then refresh, and it's usually gone after that.   

 

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

most people are understandably waiting to see, but this looks like the best chance to end his 2024 run.

I'm definitely waiting to see, but I'm very skeptical attempts to bar him from running will get passed this SCOTUS.  The constitution is very clear on the qualifications to run for president, and again, even Eugene Debs was allowed to run for president while in prison for violating the Espionage Act - albeit the horribly undemocratic and quickly repealed Sedition amendments.

[Fez]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm definitely waiting to see, but I'm very skeptical attempts to bar him from running will get passed this SCOTUS.  The constitution is very clear on the qualifications to run for president, and again, even Eugene Debs was allowed to run for president while in prison for violating the Espionage Act - albeit the horribly undemocratic and quickly repealed Sedition amendments.

SCOTUS is very much in the bag for conservatives, but I'm not sure they are for Trump specifically. They did ignore all his post-election challenges after all. I could very much see Roberts and Kavanaugh at least making the decision DeSantis would both be more to their liking and more likely to beat Biden, and clearing the way for him.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Fez said:

SCOTUS is very much in the bag for conservatives, but I'm not sure they are for Trump specifically.

They certainly aren't, but Trump would actually have a legitimate constitutional case for once.  It really depends on the circumstances, but I could see Kavanaugh and even Roberts siding with him even though I'm very confident the latter absolutely loathes Trump.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Regards that Lincoln Project video on who tipped off the Government to Trump's espionage and stolen nuke docs, look who benefits the most.

DeSantis for the assist !

[DMC]

BTW, I really don't think people should assume no Trump = a DeSantis coronation.

[Wade1865]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm definitely waiting to see, but I'm very skeptical attempts to bar him from running will get passed this SCOTUS.  The constitution is very clear on the qualifications to run for president, and again, even Eugene Debs was allowed to run for president while in prison for violating the Espionage Act - albeit the horribly undemocratic and quickly repealed Sedition amendments.

Just now, DMC said:

They certainly aren't, but Trump would actually have a legitimate constitutional case for once.  It really depends on the circumstances, but I could see Kavanaugh and even Roberts siding with him even though I'm very confident the latter absolutely loathes Trump.

DMC -- solid counterpoints, really could leave an opening for him to at least make a second run.

When I look back during his one term, and what happened after, I'd never seen so much individual and organized opposition against him (including the loss of reasonable conservatives). That opposition, and what must be going on in the minds of his detractors (actively trying to halt his next run, but I'm sure with good intentions), must know and discuss how bad things will get if he's allowed to run.

[Mindwalker]

I'm not even sure T. would ever not run, particularly now. It's kind of funny that politicians can be elected even if in jail (not that he'll ever go to jail), but many felons can't even vote after they're out.

As for who snitched, I would hope it was Meadows, simply because to me, that would be the only justification for not enforcing that J6 committee subpoena. Jared is another possibility.

I guess it's more likely that one of his Secret Service protectors remembered his oath or something.

[Myshkin]

28 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Regards that Lincoln Project video on who tipped off the Government to Trump's espionage and stolen nuke docs, look who benefits the most.

DeSantis for the assist !

Don’t be silly. This was a 4d (5d?) chess move by Rudy Giuliani.

[Zorral]

There needed no snitches at all.  Archivists, particularly those who staff the National Archives, follow these things very, very, very carefully.  There are so many procedures to even look at these materials.  Surely there are records as to who requested and removed the docs, because one cannot just waltz into the storage areas and take what one wants -- which would be nearly impossible anyway unless one is an archivist and knows the system and the finding aids.  One has to request specifically, what one wants.

Speaking as one who has spent a very great deal of time working in/with libraries an archives.