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so what's up with Brienne and Jaime?


ShadowFaction

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On 8/10/2022 at 10:39 AM, ShadowFaction said:

They presume Sandor is dead though.

“It was Rorge I killed. He took the helm from Clegane’s grave, and you stole it off his corpse.”
“I didn’t hear him objecting.”
Thoros sucked in his breath in dismay. “Is this true? A dead man’s helm? Have we fallen that low?”
The big man scowled at him. “It’s good steel.”

Well, yeah, Sandor had Arya,

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

Well, yeah, Sandor had Arya,

well, yes, Arya was held as a hostage by the Brotherhood without Banners, she escaped and was caught by the Hound, they might have suspected it was the Hound but didn't know since they say nothing of it (“There is nothing good about that helm, nor the men who wore it,” said the red priest. “Sandor Clegane was a man in torment, and Rorge a beast in human skin.”)

Now Brienne doesn't know about Arya being held by BwB, the word she screamed was Arya (my interpretation), they decide to stall the hanging and question her, and her story matches. She was looking for Arya, searching for Sansa is a different matter since she's wanted for the involvement in the poisoning, but Arya was less important and was just presumed dead. That lends her credibility that she kept her vows and so did Jaime.

So why did she say "sword" instead of "Arya"?

Note: she was told by Jaime of the fake Arya too.

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19 minutes ago, ShadowFaction said:

well, yes, Arya was held as a hostage by the Brotherhood without Banners, she escaped and was caught by the Hound, they might have suspected it was the Hound but didn't know since they say nothing of it (“There is nothing good about that helm, nor the men who wore it,” said the red priest. “Sandor Clegane was a man in torment, and Rorge a beast in human skin.”)

Now Brienne doesn't know about Arya being held by BwB, the word she screamed was Arya (my interpretation), they decide to stall the hanging and question her, and her story matches. She was looking for Arya, searching for Sansa is a different matter since she's wanted for the involvement in the poisoning, but Arya was less important and was just presumed dead. That lends her credibility that she kept her vows and so did Jaime.

So why did she say "sword" instead of "Arya"?

Note: she was told by Jaime of the fake Arya too.

Timeon of the Brave Companions told Brienne that the Hound had the Stark girl.  He heard it from Beric's men.  She thought he meant Sansa, but it was really Arya; the Elder Brother set her straight.  So word that the Hound took Arya has gotten around.

Given that they have reason to believe she is a Lannister spy, showing interest or knowledge in Stark girls beyond what she has already done is probably a bad idea.

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1 hour ago, Nevets said:

Timeon of the Brave Companions told Brienne that the Hound had the Stark girl.  He heard it from Beric's men.

ah, you're right, my mistake.

Edit: although looking, it might have been just suspicion.

"We chanced on three of them after Harrenhal, and winkled the tale from one before he died.”
“He might have lied.”
“He might have, but he didn’t. Later on, we heard how the Hound slew three of his brother’s men at an inn by the crossroads. The girl was with him there. The innkeep swore to it before Rorge killed him, and the whores said the same."

if he was tortured, he might have wanted to say as much as possible.

did the BwB know Arya was in the inn? The innkeep was killed afterall.

Edit 2: and the Elder Brother heard it from Sandor himself, kept details beyond "heading for Saltpans" to protect him.

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I wonder, is it really confirmed?

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6425 is a second hand account, a summarization of what was said at that miscon (what's a miscon?)

> Submitted by Hmadkour

Could he have possibly misunderstood?

"george turned the question on the audience and asked if anyone had figured it out - we shouted all kinds of dumb stuff, “jaime”, “sapphires”, etc. but some other genius in the second row said “sword”!"

Arya not mentioned, did anyone say "Arya"? Seems like the obvious answer to me.

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On 8/9/2022 at 1:37 PM, ShadowFaction said:

I assumed the word she said was "Arya" since she had knowledge of Arya being seen at Saltpans, but apparently she said "sword"? Why would she do that, that's so uncharacteristic.

Also, what's up with Jaime, he has only one hand, he knows the Hound is unpredictable and would have no chance against him in battle, why go alone? He could have men following from a distance.

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6425

https://i.imgur.com/KbXpTiK.png

 

Jaime will receive a short drop and a sudden stop.

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2 hours ago, ShadowFaction said:

I wonder, is it really confirmed?

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6425 is a second hand account, a summarization of what was said at that miscon (what's a miscon?)

> Submitted by Hmadkour

Could he have possibly misunderstood?

"george turned the question on the audience and asked if anyone had figured it out - we shouted all kinds of dumb stuff, “jaime”, “sapphires”, etc. but some other genius in the second row said “sword”!"

Arya not mentioned, did anyone say "Arya"? Seems like the obvious answer to me.

More obvious than Sansa? Brienne's quest is to find Sansa after all.

But anyway - GRRM can be twisty answering questions, but this time it sounds straightforward. No way of ending without confirming one answer or another.

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12 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

More obvious than Sansa? Brienne's quest is to find Sansa after all.

 

Yes, and she was accused of searching Sansa because she's a wanted fugitive with a price on her head, while ditching Sansa's fruitless search for Arya (who was not wanted because the fake Arya served her purpose) would show she really was fulfilling her vow. Current BwB was shown to be ruthless, saying "sword" after showing indecisiveness they might be like "whatever" while Arya would be the gamechanger.

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8 minutes ago, ShadowFaction said:

Yes, and she was accused of searching Sansa because she's a wanted fugitive with a price on her head, while ditching Sansa's fruitless search for Arya (who was not wanted because the fake Arya served her purpose) would show she really was fulfilling her vow. Current BwB was shown to be ruthless, saying "sword" after showing indecisiveness they might be like "whatever" while Arya would be the gamechanger.

Lady Stoneheart told her to choose "sword" or "noose".  She refused to choose.  Her saying "sword" indicates her choice: that she will go after Jaime.

They already think she is a Lannister spy.  Offering to search for Arya won't change that fact.  She knows little that they don't already know, only that Arya was last seen headed for Saltpans, which isn't much help.

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14 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Lady Stoneheart told her to choose "sword" or "noose".  She refused to choose.  Her saying "sword" indicates her choice: that she will go after Jaime.

They already think she is a Lannister spy.  Offering to search for Arya won't change that fact.  She knows little that they don't already know, only that Arya was last seen headed for Saltpans, which isn't much help.

she no longer got to choose, the command has been given, and LS wasn't present at the hanging.

"A trestle table had been set up across the cave, in a cleft in the rock. Behind it sat a woman all in grey, cloaked and hooded. In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron swords. She was studying it, her fingers stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness.
...
There was a long silence. Then Lady Stoneheart spoke again. This time Brienne understood her words. There were only two. “Hang them,” she croaked.
“As you command, m’lady,” said the big man.
They bound Brienne’s wrists with rope again and led her from the cavern, up a twisting stony path to the surface. It was morning outside, she was surprised to see. Shafts of pale dawn light were slanting through the trees. So many trees to choose from, she thought. They will not need to take us far."

2 words, "hang them", that's a death sentence, and they weren't reluctant about it.

“Do you mean to hang her, Lem?” asked the one-eyed man. “Or do you figure to talk the bitch to death?”
The Hound snatched the end of the rope from the man holding it. “Let’s see if she can dance,” he said, and gave a yank.

So "sword" would make no difference, "Uh, we came back to report that she said 'sword', so we paused the execution to await further instructions."

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