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A Horse Named Stranger
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20 minutes ago, baxus said:

You are aware that many broadcasters around the world do something similar? For example, last season every time someone got booked Serbian broadcasters showed a commercial banner at the bottom of the screen. Did something similar for goals, too.

I thought that it was just the sports in USA that went overboard with the corporate sponsorships.

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36 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

And Americans can buy whatever the fuck they like.

It's not just Americans. UK owners and other foreign ownership groups are game too. And no I wasn't off planet when they tried the Super League. Of course other owners were pissed, but that's because they were not getting a cut of the $4b investment and knew the SL would drain money away from them. 

And again, when they tried the SL they did it in the most fuck you, we don't care what you think fashion. Had they been more accommodating and offered a model more inline with what is traditionally done in Europe, who knows what would have happened. Regardless, I do think they'll bite at that apple again. 

35 minutes ago, baxus said:

To be honest, something like this is already in place, with PL not being broadcast on publicly broadcast TV, at least not in my neck of the woods.

I'm aware. Nothing I'm suggesting is conceptually new, just the scale of it.

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And that's quite a big "if", isn't it?

They would've most likely gotten away with it had they not gone for a closed league with team list set in stone and no relegation etc.

Yep.

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If, for example, Apple were to do what you propose, a lot of more involved fans would openly rebel. And guess what? Those casual fans that make the majority of fanbase would follow their lead. As a result, clubs revenues would take a significant hit from both ticket sales, merchandise sales, broadcasting money etc. and all of a sudden clubs taking the money wouldn't be as worth it as it initially seemed.

And this is the real question: how long would fans resist? Obviously we know European fans aren't as complacent and accepting of this as Americans, but I think a lot of teams would bet on the fans coming back fairly soon and whatever loss of fandom would be overweighed by the increase in revenue. 

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3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 Of course other owners were pissed

LOL. You think that's what stopped the Super League? Other fucking owners?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And this is the real question: how long would fans resist? Obviously we know European fans aren't as complacent and accepting of this as Americans, but I think a lot of teams would bet on the fans coming back fairly soon and whatever loss of fandom would be overweighed by the increase in revenue. 

What really killed the super league in the UK was the fan reaction, that it went basically all the way to the Government who pretty much said it wasn't going to happen. 

Things might have been a bit different with less of a clusterfuck attempt to organise the league, which is the worrying part of it all. Fan reaction is going to become less and less passionate the more uncompetitive the current structure becomes, and moves have already been made to create smaller baby steps towards the Super League. I'm sure at some point the difference between the super league and what we would have in place will be so small we won't notice it even happen, or we will even cheer it.

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13 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Financially speaking, the Premier League is already a superleague tbh. The rest of the leagues are feeder leagues.

No, it's not. The PL is nothing more than the top tier of English football, but with more money and better marketing. The structure and mechanisms are exactly the same as they've always been. You can get promoted to it, and relegated from it. There is literally nothing super about it. 

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59 minutes ago, Teng Ai Hui said:

This thread is starting to give me nightmares.  Pepsi-Cola water break.  T-Mobile Man of the Match.  Samsung VAR review.  Emirates player substitution.  Amazon yellow card.  MetLife kickoff.  Apple FA cup final.  Tesla instant replay.

 

Added time multi-ball!!


 

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

No, it's not. The PL is nothing more than the top tier of English football, but with more money and better marketing. The structure and mechanisms are exactly the same as they've always been. You can get promoted to it, and relegated from it. There is literally nothing super about it. 



I think the point is that the financial disparity between the PL and the rest of Europe at this stage is so great that it's sucking up all the best players like a super league would. Obviously that's exaggeration and we're not there yet, else English teams would be winning all the European competitions all the time, but it's not an unfair point. Barcelona have done what they've done to themselves in part to compete with the financial might of teams like West Ham. 

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3 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

No, it's not. The PL is nothing more than the top tier of English football, but with more money and better marketing. The structure and mechanisms are exactly the same as they've always been. You can get promoted to it, and relegated from it. There is literally nothing super about it. 

Financially it is, the difference between them and continental clubs is ridiculous. 

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50 minutes ago, Teng Ai Hui said:

I thought that it was just the sports in USA that went overboard with the corporate sponsorships.

It cuts both ways. Look at the kits in Europe. One day they’ll be as bad as NASCAR. Teams here are only starting to advertise on them.

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3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It cuts both ways. Look at the kits in Europe. One day they’ll be as bad as NASCAR. Teams here are only starting to advertise on them.

I was watching a bit of Rugby League a few weeks back. Those guys are covered in logos. The biggest ones appear to be spread across both arse cheeks. :lol:

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42 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

LOL. You think that's what stopped the Super League? Other fucking owners?

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What really killed the super league in the UK was the fan reaction, that it went basically all the way to the Government who pretty much said it wasn't going to happen. 

Yes, obviously the fans played a massive roll, but do not underestimate how much the other 14 clubs stoked the anger because they knew they were getting cut out of a ton of revenue and they were also lobbying the government to step in.

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Things might have been a bit different with less of a clusterfuck attempt to organise the league, which is the worrying part of it all. Fan reaction is going to become less and less passionate the more uncompetitive the current structure becomes, and moves have already been made to create smaller baby steps towards the Super League. I'm sure at some point the difference between the super league and what we would have in place will be so small we won't notice it even happen, or we will even cheer it.

And that’s all I’m getting at. Say they gave the 14 founding teams a three year exemption from relegation and then invited 6-10 more teams and did this while working politely with all the various leagues and organizations? Would the outrage have been the same?

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1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

Yup, American football streams are horrible. Big massive popup adverts for guns or hemorrhoid cream, covering a third of the screen, during a counterattack. Ugh.

I watch every Arsenal game (and others), every week for going on 10 years on an "American" stream and it's totally fine. I don't notice any adverts or anything, certainly not massive popup adverts that take up a third of the screen.

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15 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I watch every Arsenal game (and others), every week for going on 10 years on an "American" stream and it's totally fine. I don't notice any adverts or anything, certainly not massive popup adverts that take up a third of the screen.

I'll grab a screenshot next time it happens. 

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32 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

I was watching a bit of Rugby League a few weeks back. Those guys are covered in logos. The biggest ones appear to be spread across both arse cheeks. :lol:

That’s hilarious. I wonder if they requested that.

Anyways, I don’t want to beat a dead horse. I’m just saying sports owners are extremely greedy and no one should be shocked by their behavior even if it goes directly against what fans want. And hey look, a perfect example just popped up. :P

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

Yes, obviously the fans played a massive roll, but do not underestimate how much the other 14 clubs stoked the anger because they knew they were getting cut out of a ton of revenue and they were also lobbying the government to step in.

And that’s all I’m getting at. Say they gave the 14 founding teams a three year exemption from relegation and then invited 6-10 more teams and did this while working politely with all the various leagues and organizations? Would the outrage have been the same?

Yes. What you need to understand is that over here, today, a brand new club can spring up out of nowhere, then, over the course of time, climb up the ranks and make it into the Premier League.

Promotion/relegation is the process underpinning the romance of our game.

All these crackpot ideas you are presenting wouldn't be so crackpot if we already had our football organized so that there is zero meritocracy, and absolutely zero jeopardy. But who the fuck wants that? Nobody over here, that's for sure. 

Anyway, if you want to see how patently stupid the idea of enshrining the current top teams into a permanent Super League is, have a look at how the Top 4, or Top 6, or whatever you want to call it has evolved over time. Heh. If you want to have your mind blown, have a look at who was in the top division 30, 40, or even 50 years ago.

 

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21 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

 

All these crackpot ideas you are presenting wouldn't be so crackpot if we already had our football organized so that there is zero meritocracy, and absolutely zero jeopardy. But who the fuck wants that? Nobody over here, that's for sure. 

 

Thats what we all like to think the premier league is like, but in reality there is the top 4, or top 6 and the only way to realistically challenge that oligarchy is by investing insulting amounts of money, usually by owning a small islamic state. 

One of the things that came out of the whole Super League uproar was about how many lower league clubs are in real trouble financially. 

That is kind of the point, we live under the illusion of a pyramid, but it feels like the top of the pyramid is floating off into the air while the base is sinking into the sand.

Oh and Leicester was a total fluke. 

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