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18 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Reports are United are offering crazy money 

€10m/year net reportedly which would come out to around somewhere between £15-16m/year. Big wage but still not as much as De Gea.

Edited by Consigliere
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5 hours ago, baxus said:

How attractive do you think a club would be to new foreign fans if a current set of fans turned their backs on the club?

Idk to be honest. It really depends on the product, and part of the calculous is that the current disgruntled fans will come back. 

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That is something that's just not done in European (and Latin American, probably elsewhere too) sport. You can change your friends, you can change your wife, you can change your religion, but change a football club you support and you'll never hear the end of it and will never again be taken seriously by most of your surroundings.

:lmao:

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The very concept of exemption from relegation is so foreign to European fans it's insane. You have it in basketball Euroleague to an extent with some clubs having a guaranteed spot while other spots are up for grabs, but it's a major point of conflict in European basketball and Euroleague is basically the only competition in Europe that makes serious money for clubs. That's not the case in football.

And this is the rub. Clubs are going to continue to be bought up by major financial backers, and while some don't care about profits because they have other motivations, most of them will want a good ROI and that means nudging leagues to look like sports here. It's no accident that the three most profitable sporting leagues are the NFL, NBA and MLB despite their combined fandom being much smaller than the fourth most profitable league, the IPL, and their combined profits are probably more than the next 15 leagues combined. Owners of clubs in Europe regardless of the sport see that and want a cut of the pie. 

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41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And this is the rub. Clubs are going to continue to be bought up by major financial backers, and while some don't care about profits because they have other motivations, most of them will want a good ROI and that means nudging leagues to look like sports here. It's no accident that the three most profitable sporting leagues are the NFL, NBA and MLB despite their combined fandom being much smaller than the fourth most profitable league, the IPL, and their combined profits are probably more than the next 15 leagues combined. Owners of clubs in Europe regardless of the sport see that and want a cut of the pie. 

Do you as a fan want this?

I don't follow the NFL except when it gets to the playoffs and even then marginally until the championship games and the SuperBowl. And one major reason is the structure. Another being is that American football games are too damn long and I don't have the time to dedicate an entire day to it. I do follow college football a little more but that's because of being an alumnus from a Big10 university and there seems to be more variety during the regular seasons with various schools being ranked at different times.

So back to what fans would want - I'm pretty sure most European fans would raise hell before this business model is adopted in any domestic league.

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1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Well, it's not as though there is an abundance of top class DMs available. It's a risk but being 30 years old doesn't necessarily mean a player is finished – some players can still perform at a high level into their mid 30s.

Casemiro is also underpaid at Real Madrid. Reports are he gets around €200k/week. As you say, he's already won everything at club level so he might as well look to get a big pay day for his last big contract.

So you are saying, your best hope is Casemiro being saturated and out for a big payday. 

Boy, that's optimistic.

I mean, I could see how Real would be willing to let him part, as they've already brought in a potential successors with Tchouameni. But they'd still demand a hefty fee, because right now, he is still an excellent player.

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44 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Do you as a fan want this?

I don't follow the NFL except when it gets to the playoffs and even then marginally until the championship games and the SuperBowl. And one major reason is the structure. Another being is that American football games are too damn long and I don't have the time to dedicate an entire day to it. I do follow college football a little more but that's because of being an alumnus from a Big10 university and there seems to be more variety during the regular seasons with various schools being ranked at different times.

So back to what fans would want - I'm pretty sure most European fans would raise hell before this business model is adopted in any domestic league.

As a fan, no. There’s a lot of concepts from Europe I’d like to be injected into sports here. I like the academy system better than the draft, using cash for transfers instead of trades is interesting, and please god, since we can’t relegate teams can we at least relegate terrible owners?

But I’ve specifically been avoiding the fans’ perspective with my comments because what fans want is generally not in line with ownership’s priorities, even if the European model forces them to at least try a put out a competitive product.

Also, which Big 10 school did you go to. If you answer Iowa or Wisconsin you’re dead to me.  

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33 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

As a fan, no. There’s a lot of concepts from Europe I’d like to be injected into sports here. I like the academy system better than the draft, using cash for transfers instead of trades is interesting, and please god, since we can’t relegate teams can we at least relegate terrible owners?

But I’ve specifically been avoiding the fans’ perspective with my comments because what fans want is generally not in line with ownership’s priorities, even if the European model forces them to at least try a put out a competitive product.

I feel like in the US sports organizations have "trained" the fans to go with that they sell. Yes, on an individual level you get people complaining and rage quitting, but when a team changes its location and/or name, most people fall in line. In Europe, and particularly countries like the UK I don't see that happening. So the wants of the fans need to be taken seriously.

34 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, which Big 10 school did you go to. If you answer Iowa or Wisconsin you’re dead to me.  

OK, I won't answer with those names. :P

Spoiler

It's Nebraska. So yes, I've been in perpetual pain for years now. :D

 

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51 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

So you are saying, your best hope is Casemiro being saturated and out for a big payday. 

Boy, that's optimistic.

I mean, I could see how Real would be willing to let him part, as they've already brought in a potential successors with Tchouameni. But they'd still demand a hefty fee, because right now, he is still an excellent player.

Don't care if he wants more money so long as he performs on the pitch. You're carrying on as if a player wanting a wage increase means he's going to phone it in on the pitch. The transfer fee is going to be substantial. Reports say the fee could be around £60m.

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24 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Don't care if he wants more money so long as he performs on the pitch. You're carrying on as if a player wanting a wage increase means he's going to phone it in on the pitch. The transfer fee is going to be substantial. Reports say the fee could be around £60m.

Nah, just went with your: maybe he has won enough... argument and decided to run with it

And bluntly put, money is pretty much the sole argument for a player to move from Real to Man Utd right now. I mean, it's most certainly not the prospect of winning titles in the next 2-3 years.

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2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Nah, just went with your: maybe he has won enough... argument and decided to run with it

And bluntly put, money is pretty much the sole argument for a player to move from Real to Man Utd right now. I mean, it's most certainly not the prospect of winning titles in the next 2-3 years.

Well, people are asking why he would leave Real Madrid. The answer is rather obvious: he's underpaid at Real, has already won everything there is to win with them and United have offered him a better contract. Nothing wrong with that so long as he performs on the pitch. If trophies were the only factor then the majority of clubs would not be able sign any good players since the vast majority of football clubs do not win trophies on a regular basis.

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No, but the best players don't go from payday to payday either. If money was the sole motivation for the best players, they'd be done with the game way before they are in their thirties. So Neville is not entirely wrong with his rant about United having all the money, but nobody willing to take it (at least imo). The absolute top talent(s) want to compete for/win trophies. 

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The best players want a big payday too. If Casemiro was 24, not likely he would leave Real Madrid. But at this stage of his career it makes sense why he would consider it especially when one considers that he's been underpaid at Real Madrid relative to what he has contributed and what others at the club are earning.

Edited by Consigliere
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From the posts above, Casemiro is currently on 200k EUR per week (or 10m EUR per annum) at Madrid net of taxes.  So 300k GBP per week gross of taxes would be about neutral net of tax.  That doesn’t sound all that underpaid for a DM, even a very successful one.  If United needs to offer him a premium wage to leave a CL-winning club and join the circus, does that mean 400k GBP per week?  More?  Would a 30% increase be enough to swap Madrid for Manchester and swap Real for United?  It looks like he’d have to be paid at least as much as KDB, and more than Salah, to make that switch.  If he’s already taking home 10m per year net of taxes, it’s not like he urgently needs to scramble for one last pay day.  It might be more valuable to him to protract his playing career by managing his workload and the physicality of opponents.

@Tywin et al. this claim that an American mega bucks could just buy the entire PL sounds like Trump claiming America would buy Greenland.

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5 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

From the posts above, Casemiro is currently on 200k EUR per week (or 10m EUR per annum) at Madrid net of taxes

No, that figure should be gross not net. According to Spanish media he's on €5m/year net. Reportedly United have offered €10m/year net.

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24 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

No, that figure should be gross not net. According to Spanish media he's on €5m/year net. Reportedly United have offered €10m/year net.

That number is wrong. That was his old contract (5m € p.a. + bonus). However he signed an extension in 2020, which put him on net 9m € p.a. (add bonus payments and we are at the 10m).

 

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Just now, A Horse Named Stranger said:

That number is wrong. That was his old contract (5m € p.a. + bonus). However he signed an extension in 2020, which put him on net 9m € p.a. (add bonus payments and we are at the 10m).

 

That's not what the Real Madrid journos like Jose Felix Diaz and Arancha Rodriguez have reported. €9m/year gross lines up with €5m/year net as has been reported by the Spanish media.

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3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I feel like in the US sports organizations have "trained" the fans to go with that they sell. Yes, on an individual level you get people complaining and rage quitting, but when a team changes its location and/or name, most people fall in line. In Europe, and particularly countries like the UK I don't see that happening. So the wants of the fans need to be taken seriously.

100% fans here are more conditioned to accept that kind of behavior and that UK fans will fight against it a lot harder, but it's not crazy to think that will be chipped away at. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't there also a lot of opposition to the creation of the PL and the way it was birthed is similar to what I've been discussing, i.e. media distribution reshaping the league?

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 OK, I won't answer with those names. :P

  Reveal hidden contents

It's Nebraska. So yes, I've been in perpetual pain for years now. :D

 

Oof, I guess you at least have Rutgers to laugh at.

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

 

@Tywin et al. this claim that an American mega bucks could just buy the entire PL sounds like Trump claiming America would buy Greenland.

It doesn't have to be an American entity, I just listed three because they actually have the money to conceivably do it. All I'm really saying is every league is always looking for new revenue sources and this is a way to dramatically increase them. Jumping back to the NFL as an example, would you be shocked when their TV deals are up if Amazon stepped in, asked what ABC/ESPN, NBC and CBS are offering and then doubled their collective offer in exchange for games only being on Prime and Amazon gets to put it's fingers all over the NFL HQ? 

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1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

That’s going to be a problem for any player brought in. Doesn’t mean that MU shouldn’t buy anyone though. 

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16 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Also Tuchel demands so much from his wingbacks physically, it would be very risky to only have Chilwell who was injured for so long in that position, that is of course assuming Alonso ever makes his move to Barca along with the 200 other players they have bought.

That was Chelsea's downfall last season. That and being horrible in the final third which has plagued us since Sarri it feels like.

Once Chilwell went down we were screwed last year. Alonso was our option behind him as we couldn't pull Emerson back from loan. Reece went down for 3-4 months like two weeks after Chilwell. When the wingbacks go down in this system, we lose our identity cause we don't get enough consistent production from whoever is trying to be our striker and the two forwards behind him. When healthy last season Reece and Chilwell were consistently contributing to goals. 

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