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EggBlue

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To be honest, I feel like this theory that Daemon and Nettles weren’t sleeping together is mainly people trying to justify Daemon being an ass. It’s easier to view Daemon as somewhat heroic if Nettles was his long-lost daughter and not another teenage girl that he was having sex with.

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42 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Because he's a charming asshole and gets things done.

* He reforms the goldcloaks

Well, there George really dropped the ball. I mean, seriously, Daemon commanded the City Watch for perhaps two years in the 26-year-reign of his brother. That should have effected no lasting change within the organization nor in the underworld of the city.

42 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

* He conquers the Stepstones after their piracy

And then he abandoned that 'kingdom' and went on a pleasure trip.

I mean, if you cut to chase, Daemon sucks as a husband, as a lover, as a father, as a brother. He is a good, well, sucker. A spoilt man-child, but he doesn't seem to have any positive qualities in the book. He also has nothing of a rogue. A rogue - especially of the Han Solo type - as per my definition would be a guy who might have a privileged background ... but doesn't care about it. All Daemon does throughout most of his life as per FaB is coveting the Iron Throne. That's about as 'un-rogueish' as you can possibly be.

Spoiler

From what we know about the Rhaenyra thing there is going to be no grooming there. They have a connection from the start, but it only turns romantic/sexual around the time Rhaenyra marries. And it seems that Daemon is more teaching her to understand her own sexuality and sexual desires rather than wanting to exploit her. Afterwards they are happy in their respective relationships/marriages and it is Rhaenyra who finally decides that she wants Daemon after he returns from Pentos for Laena's funeral.

And to be clear - the whole grooming thing is also Mushroom nonsense in FaB. The whole Cécile de Volanges act is a sexual fantasy. Daemon ingratiating himself with Rhaenyra - who is the future queen - isn't different from other lords and knights and heirs trying to gain her favor.

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4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

To be honest, I feel like this theory that Daemon and Nettles weren’t sleeping together is mainly people trying to justify Daemon being an ass. It’s easier to view Daemon as somewhat heroic if Nettles was his long-lost daughter and not another teenage girl that he was having sex with.

Nah, for me it is more that this kind of twist makes more sense in context than Daemon having found 'the love of his life' only to abandon her to a shitty life in the shitty Mountains of the Moon and throw away his life to kill a nephew he never had any particular issues with. If Daemon had loved Nettles he could have flown away with her to Essos just as he went there with Laena earlier.

As a father, though, he could have thought that leaving Nettles could protect her. Granted, it is still a nonsensical plot and no sane person would act like that, but a tidbit more reasonable than the other version.

Especially since the dialogue we get about the letter indicates the man is apparently heart-broken when he understands that Mysaria turned Rhaenyra against him. That's something you would interpret as him still loving/being fond of both those women, feeling so betrayed by this act that he robs him of all will to live.

A Daemon who more or less happily started an affair with Nettles would likely no longer harbor such feelings for either Mysaria or (especially) Rhaenyra who he had apparently already dumped for Mysaria before he hooked up with Nettles. Thus he would also not be broken by this, but rather enraged. And that would have led to a completely different decision once Nettles' execution was averted.

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15 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

To be honest, I feel like this theory that Daemon and Nettles weren’t sleeping together is mainly people trying to justify Daemon being an ass. It’s easier to view Daemon as somewhat heroic if Nettles was his long-lost daughter and not another teenage girl that he was having sex with.

I viewed it more in the context Daemon doesn't strike me as a guy who would willingly die for his mistress, no matter how much he cared about them, but his daughter is someone he might theoretically do so.

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It is interesting speculating on the success of this show.

I personally hope that it is successful enough that it can complete the story with the highest quality possible, because I really like the story, and from all the promotion it seems it will be visualized in a way that is pretty exciting.

However, I do not want HBO to become a GoT Marvel-verse. In that route almost certainly lies creative stagnation, and it would be a shame to see HBO, which has consistently brought about the best and most inventive programming, being Disney-fied. 

Dunk and Egg are good stories, but I honestly don't know how an entire series can be built around the three published stories (I think it's unreasonable to expect that Martin will ever complete any kind of work again). And all the other series in development sound deeply uninteresting. A Jon Snow spinoff? 9 Voyages and 10,000 Ships? That sounds awful. Flea Bottom?! That would be more fitting as a Key and Peele skit.

If resounding success means those shows come about, then I very much hope that Hot D doesn't achieve it.

I'd rather HBO focus its efforts in more novel directions.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I mean, if you cut to chase, Daemon sucks as a husband, as a lover, as a father, as a brother. He is a good, well, sucker. A spoilt man-child, but he doesn't seem to have any positive qualities in the book. He also has nothing of a rogue. A rogue - especially of the Han Solo type - as per my definition would be a guy who might have a privileged background ... but doesn't care about it. All Daemon does throughout most of his life as per FaB is coveting the Iron Throne. That's about as 'un-rogueish' as you can possibly be.

I feel like GRRM intended for Daemon to be a more badass version of Jaime, with mixed results.

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9 minutes ago, IFR said:

It is interesting speculating on the success of this show.

I personally hope that it is successful enough that it can complete the story with the highest quality possible, because I really like the story, and from all the promotion it seems it will be visualized in a way that is pretty exciting.

However, I do not want HBO to become a GoT Marvel-verse. In that route almost certainly lies creative stagnation, and it would be a shame to see HBO, which has consistently brought about the best and most inventive programming, being Disney-fied. 

Dunk and Egg are good stories, but I honestly don't know how an entire series can be built around the three published stories (I think it's unreasonable to expect that Martin will ever complete any kind of work again). And all the other series in development sound deeply uninteresting. A Jon Snow spinoff? 9 Voyages and 10,000 Ships? That sounds awful. Flea Bottom?! That would be more fitting as a Key and Peele skit.

If resounding success means those shows come about, then I very much hope that Hot D doesn't achieve it.

I'd rather HBO focus its efforts in more novel directions.

I think that Dunk and Egg would be better movies than shows but I think you could stretch the three stories into three seasons if you spent enough time showing the world of the period. We have no idea what Snow is going to be about but I think there's enough discarded George R.R. Martin content (Val, Lady Stoneheart, Alys Karkstark, Craster's Sons) and so on that they could do the show that way.

But yes, I agree that everything not adapted from Martin's own work is not worth making.

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2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Curiously, I don't know if HBO (under new management) trusts Martin to finish publishing any new material so that doesn't leave much room for dunk & egg. 

The three stories are fine, but we have many more to go and he probably doesn't have another one in him.  

To be fair, we have the Fire and blood for them too.

Season One: The Hedge Knight

Season Two: The Sworn Sword

Season Three: The Mystery Knight

Season Four: The Blackfyre Rebellion 2: Electric Boogaloo

Season Five: Aegon V's fucked up children and Summerhall

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