the next House of the Dragon thread

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

I suspect a lot of people will be going into this with little sympathy for the people of Kings Landing, given their general unpleasantness in GOT.

The Smallfolk are tasty with lots of ketchup.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Khloey said:

Yes, that's my guess, especially if they stick about what they said about the importance of grey characters.

I want to see Daemon's letter to Rhaenyra : "eye for eye, a son for a son, Lucerys will be avenged".

From the leaks

Spoiler

there won't be such a letter, since Daemon is still right there on Dragonstone when he, personally, tells Rhaenyra about Luke's death at the end of the last episode of the season.

We can imagine that afterwards they both agree that something has to be done to avenge Luke - but as I said, Otto earlier commanded Larys to take out Mysaria, burning her manse and killing many of her friends. It is rather obvious that, once Daemon reaches out to Mysaria to avenge Luke, she will decide how to best punish Otto for this treason.

In context I should also mention that apparently Aegon's habits lead to Mysaria subtly threaten Otto earlier that it would be very easy for her to murder the guy, we we can assume that the Greens will go to great lengths protecting Aegon and Aemond after Luke's death and Larys' failure to murder Mysaria ... which might lead to Helaena and the children being exposed.

 

2 hours ago, Khloey said:

That should create a big change of how viewers see the Black team, which I assumed will be the favorite at the start of the series.

Rhaenyra likely is going to be a pretty sympathetic figure, but

Spoiler

Daemon is going to be pretty shady, apparently. There are hints that is going to arrange both Rhea's and Laenor's deaths.

 

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Blood and Cheese could very easily come off as edgelord torture porn if they’re not careful. It will be emotional and shocking, but I don’t think it will come anywhere close to the Red Wedding, and honestly, that’s okay.

It will depend on what exactly they are going to include and depict there. I hope they write the two guys as not exactly the sharpest knives in the box, adding some comedy by having them trying to get to Aegon and Aemond first only for the security net being too tight ... before they end up settling on Helaena.

You can practically see the scene where they realize that they have full access to the Tower of the Hand, talk about going back to Mysaria to tell her ... only to then not bother with that and making their own great plan.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Just watching the dragons burn people alive in the new trailer made me resent them, the same way I resented Dany and her dragons on GOT. I think viewers will be split on whether the Storming of the Dragonpit is horrific or justified.

For us to care about them they would really have to feature those specific dragons. I mean, I suggested how they could feature Dreamfyre more - by moving Rook's Rest further in season 2 and having her and Helaena accompany Aegon and Aemond to Rook's Rest, since I also expect Syrax/Rhaenyra and Jace/Vermax to be there in addition to Meleys/Rhaenys. That would add more suspense to the clash and they could turn Rhaenys into a sacrifice which allows Rhaenyra and Jace to escape.

Tyraxes could be shown a couple of times once Joffrey Velaryon gets more prominent, but there is little way to make Shrykos and Morghul more prominent. I guess we could see Jaehaerys and Jaehaera spend some time with their dragons prior to the former's death early in season 2, possibly even seeing how their eggs hatch, so we have some hatchlings growing through the war, and while Jaehaera is still in KL she could have some scenes with her dragon, but that would be it.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t recall people being that upset about the dragons dying, although I obviously didn’t see every reaction out there. There was so much other stuff going on during those scenes that it diverted attention away from their deaths.

I wasn't exactly upset, just pissed about the stupidity of it all. I mean, GoT almost killed the concept of 'dragons are dangerous monsters' because they effectively die like flies and are very easily injured by conventional weaponry weirdo ice lance.

In the books I certainly rooted for some of the dragons, in ADwD I thought for a moment that Drogon might be killed in the pit, that Viserion and Rhaegal might indeed be stolen, etc. and of course some of the pathetic dragon deaths during the Dance - Vermax drowning, Tessarion, Vermithor, and Seasmoke pointlessly ripping each other apart - was touching to a point, but the Storming of the Dragonpit is overall just an ugly episode.

Much more emotional there is Joff's pointless death and Rhaenyra's inability to do something about the riots ... but then I don't think we are going to get her as a rambling lunatic clutching the Iron Throne and babbling about the dragons defending themselves ... because this is clearly not the kind of character that the show Rhaenyra is going to be. She would be much more decisive in that situation, doing her best to stop the riots.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The leaks make it sound like Mysaria has been hell-a whitewashed. We’ll see how accurate they were soon, but she sounds like TV-Varys right now.

To be sure, we have no idea what Mysaria did throughout the reign of Viserys I. Later on she is a vindictive asshole in the Nettles affair, but this doesn't mean she cannot have had any good sides we never saw. However, how the Nettles thing is going to go down in the show I've no idea at this point.

I like the aspect that she and Daemon actually do care enough for the downtrodden in KL to be 'good crime lords', protecting their own, trying shut down the really ugly things, etc.

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

How far do the leaks go, by the way? Beyond the first episode?

At this point throughout all of season 1.

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Animals generally arouse more sympathy than people, so yes, people will be rooting for the dragons over the folks of Kings Landing.

Could be ... but keep in mind that at this point we will have witnessed the Sack of Tumbleton and the dragons being unleashed on an innocent population on a pretty grand scale. Granted, different dragons, but I imagine that quite a few people are going to cheer when the commoners take it upon themselves get rid of those monsters.

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

WRT ASOIAF, yes, I expect whoever takes the twins will execute every man woman and child. And then, there’s the burning of Shireen at the stake to “look forward” to…

I forgot Riverrun. I expect Genna and Emmon to die very ugly deaths.

Shireen will be an all-time low on the personal level, but I think perhaps not as gruesome as many others since Shireen is, so far, barely a character in the books. George might flesh her out more in Mel's TWoW chapters and she might gain more prominence if they do indeed proclaim/crown her queen while Stannis is presumed dead.

Could actually be that Tommen, Myrcella, and Margaery fare worse in a KL rising up for Aegon.

59 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I suspect a lot of people will be going into this with little sympathy for the people of Kings Landing, given their general unpleasantness in GOT.

Hopefully the smallfolk is going to be less unpleasant in HotD. I'd like to see some arcs for the common Riverlanders first answering Rhaenyra's call, pushing their knights and lords in the right direction, and I'd like to see more buildup for the Shepherd by a slow increase of dragon paranoia in KL. They have stressed the fact that dragons are very common in KL at that point ... but as dragon battles and dragon atrocities become more common as well, we should see how fear in the city builds up. I think that element should already be very strong when the City Watch defects to Rhaenyra when she shows up with her dragons.

In addition there would also Larys and Mysaria spreading stories and rumors, fueling the fires of fear, etc. ... but I think the Storming of the Dragonpit should be some explosion of violence which slowly developed through multiple seasons.

[SeanF]

13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

From the leaks

  Hide contents

there won't be such a letter, since Daemon is still right there on Dragonstone when he, personally, tells Rhaenyra about Luke's death at the end of the last episode of the season.

We can imagine that afterwards they both agree that something has to be done to avenge Luke - but as I said, Otto earlier commanded Larys to take out Mysaria, burning her manse and killing many of her friends. It is rather obvious that, once Daemon reaches out to Mysaria to avenge Luke, she will decide how to best punish Otto for this treason.

In context I should also mention that apparently Aegon's habits lead to Mysaria subtly threaten Otto earlier that it would be very easy for her to murder the guy, we we can assume that the Greens will go to great lengths protecting Aegon and Aemond after Luke's death and Larys' failure to murder Mysaria ... which might lead to Helaena and the children being exposed.

 

Rhaenyra likely is going to be a pretty sympathetic figure, but

  Hide contents

Daemon is going to be pretty shady, apparently. There are hints that is going to arrange both Rhea's and Laenor's deaths.

 

It will depend on what exactly they are going to include and depict there. I hope they write the two guys as not exactly the sharpest knives in the box, adding some comedy by having them trying to get to Aegon and Aemond first only for the security net being too tight ... before they end up settling on Helaena.

You can practically see the scene where they realize that they have full access to the Tower of the Hand, talk about going back to Mysaria to tell her ... only to then not bother with that and making their own great plan.

For us to care about them they would really have to feature those specific dragons. I mean, I suggested how they could feature Dreamfyre more - by moving Rook's Rest further in season 2 and having her and Helaena accompany Aegon and Aemond to Rook's Rest, since I also expect Syrax/Rhaenyra and Jace/Vermax to be there in addition to Meleys/Rhaenys. That would add more suspense to the clash and they could turn Rhaenys into a sacrifice which allows Rhaenyra and Jace to escape.

Tyraxes could be shown a couple of times once Joffrey Velaryon gets more prominent, but there is little way to make Shrykos and Morghul more prominent. I guess we could see Jaehaerys and Jaehaera spend some time with their dragons prior to the former's death early in season 2, possibly even seeing how their eggs hatch, so we have some hatchlings growing through the war, and while Jaehaera is still in KL she could have some scenes with her dragon, but that would be it.

I wasn't exactly upset, just pissed about the stupidity of it all. I mean, GoT almost killed the concept of 'dragons are dangerous monsters' because they effectively die like flies and are very easily injured by conventional weaponry weirdo ice lance.

In the books I certainly rooted for some of the dragons, in ADwD I thought for a moment that Drogon might be killed in the pit, that Viserion and Rhaegal might indeed be stolen, etc. and of course some of the pathetic dragon deaths during the Dance - Vermax drowning, Tessarion, Vermithor, and Seasmoke pointlessly ripping each other apart - was touching to a point, but the Storming of the Dragonpit is overall just an ugly episode.

Much more emotional there is Joff's pointless death and Rhaenyra's inability to do something about the riots ... but then I don't think we are going to get her as a rambling lunatic clutching the Iron Throne and babbling about the dragons defending themselves ... because this is clearly not the kind of character that the show Rhaenyra is going to be. She would be much more decisive in that situation, doing her best to stop the riots.

To be sure, we have no idea what Mysaria did throughout the reign of Viserys I. Later on she is a vindictive asshole in the Nettles affair, but this doesn't mean she cannot have had any good sides we never saw. However, how the Nettles thing is going to go down in the show I've no idea at this point.

I like the aspect that she and Daemon actually do care enough for the downtrodden in KL to be 'good crime lords', protecting their own, trying shut down the really ugly things, etc.

At this point throughout all of season 1.

Could be ... but keep in mind that at this point we will have witnessed the Sack of Tumbleton and the dragons being unleashed on an innocent population on a pretty grand scale. Granted, different dragons, but I imagine that quite a few people are going to cheer when the commoners take it upon themselves get rid of those monsters.

I forgot Riverrun. I expect Genna and Emmon to die very ugly deaths.

Shireen will be an all-time low on the personal level, but I think perhaps not as gruesome as many others since Shireen is, so far, barely a character in the books. George might flesh her out more in Mel's TWoW chapters and she might gain more prominence if they do indeed proclaim/crown her queen while Stannis is presumed dead.

Could actually be that Tommen, Myrcella, and Margaery fare worse in a KL rising up for Aegon.

Hopefully the smallfolk is going to be less unpleasant in HotD. I'd like to see some arcs for the common Riverlanders first answering Rhaenyra's call, pushing their knights and lords in the right direction, and I'd like to see more buildup for the Shepherd by a slow increase of dragon paranoia in KL. They have stressed the fact that dragons are very common in KL at that point ... but as dragon battles and dragon atrocities become more common as well, we should see how fear in the city builds up. I think that element should already be very strong when the City Watch defects to Rhaenyra when she shows up with her dragons.

In addition there would also Larys and Mysaria spreading stories and rumors, fueling the fires of fear, etc. ... but I think the Storming of the Dragonpit should be some explosion of violence which slowly developed through multiple seasons.

Tommen, Myrcella Margaery, yes, I suspect will be pretty awful.  I could see them being abused and torn apart by some vile crowd.

[The Dragon Demands]

 

[Le Cygne]

Are they going to regard GoT as part of this story? That's the part that makes me wary of this.

I saw the interview on the Westeros news where he speaks of the show as a companion piece to the book.

(typo)

Edited August 19, 2022 by Le Cygne

[Lord Varys]

49 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Tommen, Myrcella Margaery, yes, I suspect will be pretty awful.  I could see them being abused and torn apart by some vile crowd.

Depending how Mace decides to use his men there is a chance that we are going to get a version of the Storming of the Dragonpit ... namely a Storming of the Red Keep, arranged by Varys (who could easily move sufficient men into the castle via the secret tunnels to open the gates from the inside) which kind of mirrors the riots during Rhaenyra's reign, only with it being directed against the Lannister regime.

At this point Mace simply has too many men in the city for there to be successful riots, but even if he were to leave 10,000-20,000 men behind in the city if he were to march against Storm's End there is a chance that they might be overwhelmed. Rhaenyra also had thousands of men under arms in the city, but the rioters took them out.

The parallels could be pretty close - there could be fighting between the king's men and the sparrows in the wake of whatever happens regarding the trials, serving as a distraction for a better organized riot to do away with the Lannisters/Tyrells and put Aegon on the throne.

[The Bard of Banefort]

17 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Are they going to regard GoT as part of this story? That's the part that makes me wary of this.

I saw the interview on the Westeros news where he speaks of the show a companion piece to the book.

Judging by the the presence of the catspaw dagger and the White Walker prophecy, it will be tying in directly to GOT.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

20 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Are they going to regard GoT as part of this story? That's the part that makes me wary of this.

I saw the interview on the Westeros news where he speaks of the show a companion piece to the book.

Unless I'm completely insane, HotD is an official prequel to GoT.

[EggBlue]

19 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Are they going to regard GoT as part of this story? That's the part that makes me wary of this.

I saw the interview on the Westeros news where he speaks of the show a companion piece to the book.

who's to say?! I mean if they want to treat GoT show as part of the story then all the hype they give to the dragon family and their responsibility against certain danger from far North is just pointless. .... besides, that'll also be in contrast with Condal's statement with GoT as a part of the show , they too will be in sorta a conflict with the book

[EggBlue]

6 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Unless I'm completely insane, HotD is an official prequel to GoT.

seems to me they are just putting in enough Easter eggs to attract GoT die hard fans , while at the same time are gonna pretend GoT never happened (hush hush about how Arya Stark carries out the responsibility that Dragon kings are so worried about!)

[C.T. Phipps]

Well we have plenty of White Walkers likely to show up in Snow to make up for it.

[Le Cygne]

13 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Judging by the the presence of the catspaw dagger and the White Walker prophecy, it will be tying in directly to GOT.

Or could it be to ASOIAF? I haven't looked at the trailers or anything, but catspaw and white walkers are in the books, too. As long as they don't reference a ninja jumping from a tree, or anything like that.

[Le Cygne]

12 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

seems to me they are just putting in enough Easter eggs to attract GoT die hard fans , while at the same time are gonna pretend GoT never happened (hush hush about how Arya Stark carries out the responsibility that Dragon kings are so worried about!)

That would make sense. Go with the commonality the show had with the books, and hush hush about the rest. It would make it easier to adapt the book that way, one would think.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I fully expect HBO to reboot GOT the second the books are finished. . . but that’s only if they’re finished.

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

Animals generally arouse more sympathy than people, so yes, people will be rooting for the dragons over the folks of Kings Landing.

Regarding the dragons, I like the spirit animal part of it, the bonding with the owner. If I like the owner, I like the dragon. So that's the part I really want to see, that relationship.

If they show it the way GRRM did in ASOIAF, that's something I always wanted to see. (Also the direwolves, but maybe some day there will be a show about those.)

[Lord Varys]

While I don't like the Got dagger thingy to feature prominently in anything ... they overdid it design-wise in the show, making it much more costly than it is in the books, not to mention that making it some kind of Targaryen heirloom also makes sense considering it is the thing that 'saves the world'. If the Targaryens didn't do it, at least a Targaryen trinket did the trick now that it is apparently Viserys' personal dagger (which I assume is going to indicate that it is just a tidbit less important than Blackfyre and Dark Sister).

Speaking of Valyrian steel weapons:

I honestly hope Blackfyre is going to be used for something in the show. Viserys carries it around often enough, so he should swing it at least once, and Aegon II should also do something with it. In FaB the sword doesn't feature during the Dance at all which is kind of stupid.

I think the show should go with Aegon II having it as he should, Aemond wanting to wield it as Prince Regent but being denied it (since the sword cannot really end up in the Gods Eye with his corpse), Rhaenyra taking it up as a sign of her queenship, and it passing from her hands directly back into those of Aegon II on Dragonstone.

If they want to be kind of gruesome they could use Blackfyre as a means for executing highborn/royal prisoners. Rhaenyra could personally execute Otto and Jasper Wylde with Blackfyre (since I guess this Rhaenyra would gladly do something like that), earlier it could be used in executions done by Aegon II or in his name (Cole could swing the sword if Aegon doesn't want to do it), young Aegon III could take up the sword in Rhaenyra's defense when they are captured rather than some Queensguard sword, etc.

Aside from that there is little chance of the sword being used in a direct fight since the monarchs aren't involved in any.

Really liking the idea to see Rhaenyra personally execute Otto while Alicent must watch. This could add another layer to their hatred and do it much better than if Rhaenyra merely commanded it. With the whole martial/man-like Rhaenyra they have created we have to assume she will do what she likes once she is queen, and on the kind of different types of women Alicent and Rhaenyra are going to represent Rhaenyra personally killing her father would really aggravate her. For this to work as a story they really must make things hurt to add layer upon layer of hate.

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Regarding the dragons, I like the spirit animal part of it, the bonding with the owner. If I like the owner, I like the dragon. So that's the part I really want to see, that relationship.

If they show it the way GRRM did in ASOIAF, that's something I always wanted to see. (Also the direwolves, but maybe some day there will be a show about those.)

From what we know, it seems that they are trying to portray that.

Spoiler

Apparently there will be multiple bonding scenes - Laena-Vhagar, Aemond-Vhagar (of course), one rejection (Aemond tries to mount Dreamfyre earlier, before Helaena claims her) and the people who are already dragonriders will have close relationships with their dragons, especially Syrax-Rhaenyra and Caraxes-Daemon.

 

[Le Cygne]

Thanks!

Edited August 19, 2022 by Le Cygne

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

 

Hmmm, so the dragon's color doesn't really mean anything other than to tell them apart. Interesting.

[The Bard of Banefort]

HBO is now offering a massive subscription discount. . . which is probably a pretty clever idea, in truth. (Although it also means that they probably haven’t been getting as many subscriptions as they planned by now, but I think that’s just the nature of the streaming game. There are too many of them, you have to pick and choose).

[TormundsWoman]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

Animals generally arouse more sympathy than people, so yes, people will be rooting for the dragons over the folks of Kings Landing.

I also think that's true. I confess I shed a tear when the Night King killed Viserion, too shocked to cry I suppose. Didn't bat an eye in pain or suffering when the Red Wedding happened in the books, but I was completely surprised. To think Viserion is not even portraying a real animal... Feelings are just irrational that way