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[Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion


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Can anyone with medieval knowledge tell me if the trick Daemon pulled during the tourney (tripping the guy with has lance) was pure bollocks or something that would actually happen in a medieval setting?

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3 minutes ago, Darryk said:

Can anyone with medieval knowledge tell me if the trick Daemon pulled during the tourney (tripping the guy with has lance) was pure bollocks or something that would actually happen in a medieval setting?

I've never heard of a lance being used to trip another horse. That was a bit fanciful. What was more common was accidentally striking the other jouster's horse, which was generally against the rules of tourneys. In the books, deliberate and accidental killing of horses in the course of a tournament led to disqualification. Daemon doing it and getting away with it says more about him and about the decadent court of Viserys than anything, is my take.

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Beautiful and shocking.

The episode starts with a breathtaking establishing shot showing us the deciduous trees of King’s Landing, culminating with a 300-year old grove of oak near the top of the Hill of Rhaenys. (Some of the shot is obscured by a dragon, probably to attract a younger audience.) Thematically, this is a brilliant way of simultaneously showing the opulence and care of Viserys’s rule – taking good care of your foliage ever was a sign of stability – and hearkening back to the love of plants that so characterised the rule of Rhaenys more than a century before.

(I know it’s CGI, but it still warmed my heart.)

The contrast couldn’t be greater to the first scene where we encounter Prince Deamon – the hall is barren of vegetation, and the Iron Throne, wrought from the discarded garden shears of the Seven Kingdoms stands as a warning and foreshadowing. Literally. Shivers.

“… small piece of our ancestry”: Rhaenyra gets choked by a piece of metal together with an explicit mention of Dark Sister, known as the Budsnatcher, the Stemripper, and Lady Leafcutter north of the Wall for those who didn’t get the reference.

And then – what an emotional rollercoaster! – we cut from a grey, dark, gloomy scene of metal and stone, and two Targs caught in a Kubrickesque symmetry to  …

rich, luscious red oak leaves (weirdly shaped, though) of the heart tree in the Red Keep’s Kingswood. Now, I’m not sure what to make of the bark colouring or the face, but the emotional impact is worth the possible canonical deviation. I think we see some elderberry (?) and in the back a shrubbery I’m not sure about. (Most of this scene is weirdly out of focus, and much of the vegetation is obscured by humans. Maybe there’ll be a directors cut.)

[There is a more nefarious explanation of how the tree looks, but I dare not think it.]

But then all buildup is just to punch us in the bark with some gratuitous violence. First some some harrowing scenes of splintering wood, for sport, no less! And then we see the ruthless evil of House Targaryen finally reveal itself! Dracarys – just one word to the fire breathing monstrosity, and a pyre of wood goes up in flames. I haven’t been able to watch more, it seems TV is getting more and more violent just to attract viewers. 

Edited by Happy Ent
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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

In retrospect, I don’t recall any of the premiere viewers even hinting at Aemma’s birthing scene. That’s so bizarre, considering how big of an impression it made on the general audience.

I do.

David Lightbringer said that Aemma was the surprise standout character and that there was a emotionally and physically gruesome scene in the first episode...

26 minutes ago, farerb said:

I never understood why people concluded that there's a parallel between Alicent and Cersei. If anything Rhaenyra is more similar to Cersei: having many sexual partners, trying to pass off bastards as heirs, etc..

Alicent reminds me more of Catelyn to be honest. Dutiful daughter, dutiful wife, and the acceptance of her role in the patriarchal society as much as she expects the rules of that society will apply when it comes to her son.

Oh, I could not disagree more.

The parallel between Alicent and Cersei exists because they are both self-absorbed, catty politicians who flout the law of the land and the will of the king (and their husband) for completely self-serving purposes that also happen to be completely shallow. Neither of them are dutiful wives. Both women go out of their way to antagonize children (!!!), both women are thieves, both women are frauds.

Both women also live in fear, largely due to their guilty conscience. Like there is zero reason for Alicent to believe that Rhaenyra would kill her stepmother and half-siblings as soon as she would ascend to the Iron Throne. Alicent is projecting because that's what she would do.

Alicent has also had multiple sexual partners.

 

The only thing Alicent  has in common with Catelyn  is the fact that they are dutiful daughters and accept their role.

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25 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I hadn’t realized that a Stark and Lannister died in the tourney. That makes it even dumber haha

Probably like Lancels.

No one's first sons were competing.

And Daemon is the one doing the killing by all rights.

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24 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I do.

David Lightbringer said that Aemma was the surprise standout character and that there was a emotionally and physically gruesome scene in the first episode...

Oh, I could not disagree more.

The parallel between Alicent and Cersei exists because they are both self-absorbed, catty politicians who flout the law of the land and the will of the king (and their husband) for completely self-serving purposes that also happen to be completely shallow. Neither of them are dutiful wives. Both women go out of their way to antagonize children (!!!), both women are thieves, both women are frauds.

Both women also live in fear, largely due to their guilty conscience. Like there is zero reason for Alicent to believe that Rhaenyra would kill her stepmother and half-siblings as soon as she would ascend to the Iron Throne. Alicent is projecting because that's what she would do.

Alicent has also had multiple sexual partners.

 

The only thing Alicent  has in common with Catelyn  is the fact that they are dutiful daughters and accept their role.

Yeah, it’s clear already that book and show Alicent are two different characters.

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42 minutes ago, farerb said:

I never understood why people concluded that there's a parallel between Alicent and Cersei. If anything Rhaenyra is more similar to Cersei: having many sexual partners, trying to pass off bastards as heirs, etc..

Alicent reminds me more of Catelyn to be honest. Dutiful daughter, dutiful wife, and the acceptance of her role in the patriarchal society as much as she expects the rules of that society will apply when it comes to her son.

In the books Rhaenyra clearly has an arc that's inspired by Cat's story - mental breakdown after the death of a son, stronger determination after the deaths of other son(s), a son who steps up to defend the family while she is incapacitated, etc.

In the show Alicent already shows signs of, well, a mental condition with her fingernails thing ... not to mention that seems to be bottled up ambition in her. Rhaenyra is clearly mostly fine with her station. She is okay with Daemon being the heir and she wishes that her father be happy. But she is pissed that the desire for a son gets her mother killed, of course. But, like Daemon, she wants the love and affection of her father. Daemon's mistake is that he thinks Viserys' affection is measured in offices and privileges - he thinks being named Hand would be an expression of his brother's love.

Rhaenyra would like to be loved by her father like a son ... but she doesn't desire the crown nor does she wants to be queen. There she seems to be very sincere when talking to Alicent.

But Alicent clearly is more ambitious than Rhaenyra at this point - even for her, considering she is the one pissed that Rhaenyra might be supplanted by a newborn brother.

And one imagines that trait is only going to get worse as she grows older.

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37 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Alicent has also had multiple sexual partners.

Which ones, mate? Jaehaerys and Daemon? I don't recall F&B ever spelling or even hinting that Alicent ever had an affair during the Dance.

Edited by zajaz
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12 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, it’s clear already that book and show Alicent are two different characters.

They are; Book Alicent is a classical evil stepmom trope, while Show Alicent is highschool BFF turned enemy trope.

14 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Probably like Lancels.

No one's first sons were competing.

And Daemon is the one doing the killing by all rights.

I must have missed something, because I could have sworn many knights killing each other quite deliberately, and Daemon was not some of them.

Edited by zajaz
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8 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Which ones, mate? Jaehaerys and Daemon? I don't ever recalled F&B ever spelling or even hinting that Alicent ever had an affair during the Dance.

Okay, let me double-back and correct myself.

Alicent is implied/inferred to have more than one sexual partner. Jaehaerys, Daemon and Viserys are three of them.

Rhaenyra obviously has had more than one sexual partner as she had been married twice and maybe took a lover as well.

Edited by BlackLightning
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5 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Okay, let me double-back and correct myself.

Rhaenyra obviously has had more than one sexual partner as she had been married twice and took a lover. She never cheated on any of her husbands as far as I know.

Neither Alicent, as far as I can tell. Then again, the show might reveal she did, but we must consider some aspects of HotD its own thing, I believe.

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36 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Both women also live in fear, largely due to their guilty conscience. Like there is zero reason for Alicent to believe that Rhaenyra would kill her stepmother and half-siblings as soon as she would ascend to the Iron Throne. Alicent is projecting because that's what she would do.

Eh, her father and Criston Cole were always going to crown Aegon as King so she knew that it was going to be treason.

She just decided to rationalize it.

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11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

In the books Rhaenyra clearly has an arc that's inspired by Cat's story - mental breakdown after the death of a son, stronger determination after the deaths of other son(s), a son who steps up to defend the family while she is incapacitated, etc.

In the show Alicent already shows signs of, well, a mental condition with her fingernails thing ... not to mention that seems to be bottled up ambition in her. Rhaenyra is clearly mostly fine with her station. She is okay with Daemon being the heir and she wishes that her father be happy. But she is pissed that the desire for a son gets her mother killed, of course. But, like Daemon, she wants the love and affection of her father. Daemon's mistake is that he thinks Viserys' affection is measured in offices and privileges - he thinks being named Hand would be an expression of his brother's love.

Rhaenyra would like to be loved by her father like a son ... but she doesn't desire the crown nor does she wants to be queen. There she seems to be very sincere when talking to Alicent.

But Alicent clearly is more ambitious than Rhaenyra at this point - even for her, considering she is the one pissed that Rhaenyra might be supplanted by a newborn brother.

And one imagines that trait is only going to get worse as she grows older.

Exactly.

Another Rhaenyra/Cat vs. Alicent/Cersei parallel is this.

Rhaenyra and Cat were both raised as the heirs of their powerful fathers and have a more level head when it comes to succession and inheritance. Cat doesn't spazz out about Edmure being named the new heir and Rhaenyra never really expected to be her father's heir until he named her heir after the deaths of her mother and brother.

Whereas Alicent and Cersei never were even thought of as their father's heir. In Alicent's case, there's not really anything to inherit from her father.

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3 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Neither Alicent, as far as I can tell. Then again, the show might reveal she did, but we must consider some aspects of HotD its own thing, I believe.

True.

3 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Eh, her father and Criston Cole were always going to crown Aegon as King so she knew that it was going to be treason.

She just decided to rationalize it.

It's not an excuse.

You're also forgetting the lovely detail that she had just left Viserys' corpse alone for seven days after his death just so that they could pretend that he was still alive so that they could buy more time.

They only did something about it when his rotting corpse started making the entire castle stink.

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5 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Exactly.

Another Rhaenyra/Cat vs. Alicent/Cersei parallel is this.

Rhaenyra and Cat were both raised as the heirs of their powerful fathers and have a more level head when it comes to succession and inheritance. Cat doesn't spazz out about Edmure being named the new heir and Rhaenyra never really expected to be her father's heir until he named her heir after the deaths of her mother and brother.

Whereas Alicent and Cersei never were even thought of as their father's heir. In Alicent's case, there's not really anything to inherit from her father.

I don't think Edmure was ever 'named' Hoster's new heir, though. He became Hoster's heir automatically as soon as he was born.

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10 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Can someone explain to me why Alicent gave Daemon her favour in the tourney when he essentially sucker punched her brother just moments earlier?

Courtesy? A teenage crush? Avoid making the whole situation a public scandal? Come to think about it, do people besides those sitting on the Small Council even know that Daemon and Otto hate each other's gut?

Edited by zajaz
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