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[Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion


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So something I haven't really seen mentioned in regards to the scene where Viserys tells Reanrya of Aegons' dream.

Before taking about the prophecy, they talk about dragons....Viserys claims that Targaryen control of dragons is an illusion, earlier in the episode were see two dragon handlers wrangling( one seems to be a young apprentice, he's still afraid)Syrax...

So to me feels like they are setting up a reveal that there truly is nothing magical/special about controlling a dragon.(will be relevant later with Adam of Hull and the two betrayers in think). Its a mundane combination of High Valyrian comand words mixed with standard animal training/breeding 

 

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5 minutes ago, Back door hodor said:

So something I haven't really seen mentioned in regards to the scene where Viserys tells Reanrya of Aegons' dream.

Before taking about the prophecy, they talk about dragons....Viserys claims that Targaryen control of dragons is an illusion, earlier in the episode were see two dragon handlers wrangling( one seems to be a young apprentice, he's still afraid)Syrax...

So to me feels like they are setting up a reveal that there truly is nothing magical/special about controlling a dragon.(will be relevant later with Adam of Hull and the two betrayers in think). Its a mundane combination of High Valyrian comand words mixed with standard animal training/breeding 

 

It this were to be true, it would show that Targaryens (and their whole claim of being closer to gods than men) were nothing more than users of propaganda (like Middle Ages monarchs were). The only gift Valyrian blood would give people, the only thing that would make Targaryens special, are dragon dreams, which is a kind of greenseeing, IMO.

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10 minutes ago, zajaz said:

It this were to be true, it would show that Targaryens (and their whole claim of being closer to gods than men) were nothing more than users of propaganda (like Middle Ages monarchs were). The only gift Valyrian blood would give people, the only thing that would make Targaryens special, are dragon dreams, which is a kind of greenseeing, IMO.

I mean yea, I agree. This i feel like is the bigger secret in this scene, and much more dangerous if it got out, both politically and militarily. Political it negates the doctrine of exceptionalism, and undermines the peace between crown and faith, militarily the implications are obvious.

There definitely still is probably a secret to the hatching process that we don't know yet, I expect it might be revealed though 

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I hadn’t realized that a Stark and Lannister died in the tourney. That makes it even dumber haha

I did not notice that ! but that's clearly Dany's revenge from Starks and Lannisters. lol !

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, it’s clear already that book and show Alicent are two different characters.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, okay, book Alicent likely never loved Viserys if the reports about her last days can be believed. That might imply that she started out as her father's pawn like she does, so far, in the show. Alicent and Rhaenyra clearly are closer friends in the show than in the books ... but they are also friends/friendly before and in the beginning of her father's marriage.

What exactly caused that friendship to decline we don't really know ... nor why and when exactly things were beyond hope there.

Spoiler

The repors imply that Rhaenyra made repeated attempts to bridge the gap with marriage proposals and dragon eggs offers ... to no avail. But they also say that Otto is the guy who wants to murder Rhaenyra and her family ... while Alicent insists that they stage a bloodless coup (bloodless in relation to the royal family).

But in the end Alicent and Otto clearly are the villains in the piece. I mean, what could Rhaenyra do to appease them? She didn't name herself heir, the king did. Disappointing her father and refusing to do her duty as his heir and successor would be a very big betrayal. Even more so when Aegon is even less suited for the crown than Daemon.

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Exactly.

Another Rhaenyra/Cat vs. Alicent/Cersei parallel is this.

Rhaenyra and Cat were both raised as the heirs of their powerful fathers and have a more level head when it comes to succession and inheritance. Cat doesn't spazz out about Edmure being named the new heir and Rhaenyra never really expected to be her father's heir until he named her heir after the deaths of her mother and brother.

Whereas Alicent and Cersei never were even thought of as their father's heir. In Alicent's case, there's not really anything to inherit from her father.

I don't think Cat ever got the heir treatment - she is left at home while her father tours the Riverlands, after all - but she certainly was treated as an eldest daughter, i.e. somebody who could inherit if there was no son. Kind of like Rhaenyra was treated prior before she was installed as Heir Apparent. In the book she is their parents darling at that time, and Viserys clearly favors her in a way that goes beyond what's normal for girls.

And while he accepted Daemon as his presumptive heir he never formally made him Heir Apparent/Prince of Dragonstone. Chances are not that bad that Viserys would have eventually decided on his own that Rhaenyra would succeed him had he had no sons. But he would have waited with something like that until she was older, possibly with children of her own.

51 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Can someone explain to me why Alicent gave Daemon her favour in the tourney when he essentially sucker punched her brother just moments earlier?

I think because she feels she has no other choice. He is the king's brother, after all. Before she becomes queen Alicent is in a very precarious position.

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1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

True.

Catelyn was still raised as Hoster's heir...

Among the lords, it’s assumed that daughters come before uncles. It was Jaehaerys who decided to break that precedent with the monarchy. Everywhere else it stayed the same, although there are some instances of women being usurped by their uncles (Asha, the original Sansa Stark, etc.)

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15 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wonder which episode it was that turned off some critics? I didn’t get the impression that it was the premiere from their reviews.

It might be different episodes for different critics, depending on what they didn't like. Those who were bothered by "too many blond people with similar names" could have been turned off by the first episode.

Edited by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy
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Having tewatched the central scene many times I think we can safely rule out the Godswood of the Red Keep; the fauna just doesn’t match – a single oak, but no alder, elm, black cottonwood. And clearly – I cannot deny it longer – a weirwood. I conclude that Rhaenyra managed to convince Alicent to take a dragon trip, as foreshadowed in their first scene. But where have they gone? All the way to Riverrun? Face would match, but where are the redwoods?

Curiouser and curiouser.

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4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It was Jaehaerys who decided to break that precedent with the monarchy.

The craziest thing about it is that he did it three times. Once with Aerea when he first came to power, once with Rhaenys after Aemon died and he tried do it again with Viserys and Daemon after Baelon died

5 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Among the lords, it’s assumed that daughters come before uncles.

Especially in light of the fact that the on-again, off-again feud between Hoster and Brynden seems to predate Catelyn.

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3 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

The craziest thing about it is that he did it three times. Once with Aerea when he first came to power, once with Rhaenys after Aemon died and he tried do it again with Viserys and Daemon after Baelon died

I seem to recall it was Rhaena the one who renounced her claim (and her daughter's). The other two, though, I agree.

9 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

It might be different episodes for different critics, depending on what they didn't like. Those who were bothered by "too many blond people with similar names" could have been turned off by the first episode.

Speaking of similar names, I'm a little baffled as to why GRRM decided to name Aemond... well... Aemond, whe he could have used Aemon. His is one of the few Targaryen names I have an issue with.

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15 minutes ago, Happy Ent said:

Having tewatched the central scene many times I think we can safely rule out the Godswood of the Red Keep; the fauna just doesn’t match – a single oak, but no alder, elm, black cottonwood. And clearly – I cannot deny it longer – a weirwood. I conclude that Rhaenyra managed to convince Alicent to take a dragon trip, as foreshadowed in their first scene. But where have they gone? All the way to Riverrun? Face would match, but where are the redwoods?

Nah, it's definitely the Red Keep. Some of the stuff in the background looked like the godswood from GoT.

But it doesn't make sense to have a weirwood tree with a face there. The Andals cut down every such tree they could find south of the Neck. Plus, I think every tree in the godswood of the Red Keep was artificially planted. I doubt many trees would have grown naturally on Aegon's Hill right by the sea, especially a weirwood. But you know trees better, so maybe I'm wrong.

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20 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Speaking of similar names, I'm a little baffled as to why GRRM decided to name Aemond... well... Aemond, whe he could have used Aemon. His is one of the few Targaryen names I have an issue with.

It may be that Aemon wouldn't have become one of the most popular male names for Targaryens (right after Aegon and Daeron) if they would have to remember for him every single time. Aemond is like the name Maegor, and what the name Daemon became later. I assume if there'll be future Targaryens after Daenerys, they'll name anyone Aerys for a good amount of time.  It doesn't make sense that Prince Viserys (later Viserys II) would name his second son after the guy who murdered his brother. Oh, and his father as well. 

On the same page, Aemond and Daemon are just Aemon with a D on the different ends, lol.

Speaking of Viserys II, I'm really interested on who people will think becomes king, since they'll know for sure someone has to. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

It may be that Aemon wouldn't have become one of the most popular male names for Targaryens (right after Aegon and Daeron) if they would have to remember for him every single time. Aemond is like the name Maegor, and what the name Daemon became later. I assume if there'll be future Targaryens after Daenerys, they'll name anyone Aerys for a good amount of time.  It doesn't make sense that Prince Viserys (later Viserys II) would name his second son after the guy who murdered his brother. Oh, and his father as well. 

On the same page, Aemond and Daemon are just Aemon with a D on the different ends, lol.

Speaking of Viserys II, I'm really interested on who people will think becomes king, since they'll know for sure someone has to. 

 

Hey, that's actually I never thought about it much: both Daemon and Aemond come from the name Aemon, putting the letter D on different ends of their name, both are foils to each other, both did heinous things during their lifetimes, and both ended up killing each other.

Edited by zajaz
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The character features contain some nice shots of future scenes, and explain more about the how the actors are approaching their roles. They also show that Alicent and Rhaenyra are like sisters. 

The violence of the tournament did not strike me as being out of place, like the way it was juxtaposed with the childbirth sequence, that was a pretty powerful portion of the episode. After reading some of the posts here though, I do hope there is a 'true knight' like Barristan Selmy. 

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I really liked it! I think the sets, costumes and higher budget immediately stand out and I thought all the actors were great especially the young actress playing Rhaenyra. She was fantastic! Matt Smith has also won me over. Rhaenys and Corlys are instant faves, I love the Velaryons. The music was also great and I agree that it this feels more fantasy than GOT and closer to the atmosphere/tone of the books.

Things I didn't like was some of the editing (with the gory scenes it feels like they wanted to show it and hide it at the same time) and Mysaria's introduction via sex scene felt a bit like disservice to such a character.

In regards to Viserys' revelation, that felt more like a nod to the books rather than GOT. It felt like a hint/spoiler for the next ASOIAF books.

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30 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Hey, that's actually I never thought about it much: both Daemon and Aemond come from the name Aemon, putting the letter D on different ends of their name, both are foils to each other, both did heinous things during their lifetimes, and both ended up killing each other.

The difference is, Aemond ends with the D, while Daemon ends with the Aemon.

Edited by Daeron the Daring
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On 8/22/2022 at 2:23 PM, Frey family reunion said:

So that begs the question, how long have the Targaryens believed that the Prince that was Promised prophecy was directly linked to their family?

My guess: since before there even was a Valyria. After all, the Valyrians were initially dragon-less, empire-less sheep herders until some mysterious people came and taught them dragon riding. So my guess is that whoever it was that did that, did so because they wanted the world to be prepared for the Others. And they have been observing the world in secret and used glass candles or similar to send visions to Daenys and Aegon and people like that, ever since.

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23 hours ago, Feologild said:

Just finished watching the first episode.


I thought it was very good.

Also the scene at the end where all the lords pledge their support of Rhaenyra, made me think of what happened in England in during the reign of Henry I when he had no male hair and named his daughter Matilda as his hair, but than her cousin Stephen stole the throne after Henry I died in 1135. And England and Normandy went into a civil war lasting 19 years, I wonder if George R.R Martin used the Anarchy as an inspiration of the Targaryen civil war.

GRRM himself has said that Henry I and the Matilda/Stephen civil war that followed was a direct inspiration for Dance of the Dragons.

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3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

The Andals cut down every such tree they could find south of the Neck. Plus, I think every tree in the godswood of the Red Keep was artificially planted.

This was only true in AGoT. We know canonically from the later volumes that there are weirwood heart trees in Harrenhal, 3 at Highgarden and Casterly Rock has one as well.

You are right that there are no weirwoods in the Red Keep and Riverrun in the books - in both cases it is mentioned in the text that the heart trees are oaks and they aren’t carved.

I guess the show changed that.

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