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[Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion


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57 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

 

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Bonus question to everyone: I know it'd be cliche, but if we get Aegon III and Jaehaera marrying, do you think they shouldn't kill off Jaehaera? I mean, it's just unnecesary in every way possible, and horror for the sake of it. The two branches would unite and they live happily ever after or something. Probably won't happen but makes more sense than what actually happened in FnB.

 

if they'll add Aegon II's later obsession with preventing his sister's line to  continue (whether with Aegon III's killing or castration) , then they'd probably  include Jaehaera's death in some fashion , most likely in written form .  

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1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

 

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Bonus question to everyone: I know it'd be cliche, but if we get Aegon III and Jaehaera marrying, do you think they shouldn't kill off Jaehaera? I mean, it's just unnecesary in every way possible, and horror for the sake of it. The two branches would unite and they live happily ever after or something. Probably won't happen but makes more sense than what actually happened in FnB.

 

I mean, it's horrible but I truly want Aegon II's line exterminated. It should not carry on and we're better off with the Hightower/Targaryens ended.

And yes, I understand how ridiculous that is but this is Westeros. Archaic and insane codes of justice are the order of the day.

It also makes a nice tragedy that the entire Dance was for nothing on their part.

:)

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6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

From what the reports say,

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Rhaenys' role is also increased in the show, so I expect something similar is going to happen for Baela/Rhaena. They already have a slightly larger role insofar as they go with Rhaena's egg not hatching and her wanting to claim Vhagar after her mother's death, causing the entire quarrel between the boys. That feels like a great addition.

 

That would depend on when exactly they end the show. As I said, Daenaera Velaryon could easily enough work as Jace's daughter by Sara Snow.

If they end it with Aegon III's formal coronation then they don't have to bother with Jaehaera's later death, although they could mention it in some epilogue.

What has to be included in some fashion, I think, is Viserys' return from Lys - regardless whether him surviving is a surprise to the audience or whether we get some scenes with him in Lys, creating the mystery if and when he might return to Westeros.

 

I would like to see the series end with Viserys' return from Lys and the happy reunion with poor, depressed King Aegon III who had thought his brother dead.  With so many Targaryens dead, it would be nice to end with two Targaryen living brothers glad to see each other again.

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5 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean, it's horrible but I truly want Aegon II's line exterminated. It should not carry on and we're better off with the Hightower/Targaryens ended.

And yes, I understand how ridiculous that is but this is Westeros. Archaic and insane codes of justice are the order of the day.

It also makes a nice tragedy that the entire Dance was for nothing on their part.

:)

The Greens' defeat was the most complete defeat that anyone could have experienced - the complete extinction of Alicent's bloodline.

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27 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

And it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

:)

Some people get warm fuzzy feelings out of all sorts of things, including fictional children being slaughtered with a certain amount of detail, I guess.  

I would have gotten warm fuzzy feelings if Otto Hightower had at least seen a woods witch who had told him the exact result of what his scheming would be.  Or if Daemon Targaryen had met up with him in a dark alley shortly after Queen Aemma's death and made sure that Otto did not come out alive.

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Some acting thoughts:

Well generally I think everyone did an okay job with the standouts being Paddy Considine who plays a nuanced and likable guy who is stuck with a job he is manifestly unqualified for but is managing to not fuck it up nearly as much as most kings by simply avoiding getting into any wars or major conflicts. However, the standout performance of the episode is definitely the throne room scene where he completely loses his shit. The thing is, we KNOW that he's being manipulated into all of this by his creepy advisor but it's still nice to see him stand up for himself.

Daemon Targaryen as Matt Smith feels very much like someone created a character deliberately to be a likable bad boy who fills the Jaime Lannister and Tyrion role. The thing is that there's a lot of ways they can play it as either a villain or antihero and Matt Smith manages to thread the needle of him having done some reprehensible shit on screen but to make him enough of a guy who loves his family that you sympathize with him. Oddly, I don't have a problem with the dragons (the fact they have breathing movements is a major plus for me) but I do think his armor looked fucking ridiculous.

Everyone else is...fine.

The teenage girls seem likeable enough but there's not enough contrast between them versus, say, Arya and Sansa. Both of the are highborn ladies even if one is more bookish and the other is a dragonriding badass in the making. Rhys Ifans' Ser Otto Hightower is probably the best actor after Paddy and Matt Smith but he is pretty understated so far with only the fact he's willing to pimp his own daughter giving a sense of just how skeevy he really is.

I'm a little disappointed that Sonoya Mizuno's Mysaria doesn't get more than a couple of scenes where she's mostly just saying generic dialogue (which is not normally how I'd catalog soliciting a threesome). I'd like to know more about her and Daemon's relationship. She seems to be the one who is genuinely happy Daemon's nephew died at the party, which he is having none of, but not much else. Shae got a massive upgrade in character in the show and I hope the same would be here.

Like I said there's some good acting here but there's not enough character beats so far to really be quite there up with GOT's pilot. You fell in love with virtually everyone in the first episode of GOT from Tyrion to Arya to even Catelyn. So that's a bit disappointing but it's still much-much-much better than the latter seasons.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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14 hours ago, biosnake20 said:

This was a fantastic interview. I highly recommend for people to listen to it, I wish there was a transcript because he said some interesting stuff. One of them being besides dragon riders, there was also blood magic practitioners in Valyria that held a lot of power. He does not have a magic system but if you use magic in his world there are devastating effects. He says something very interesting about the “Faegon” term. 

He also talked about how the show is their own canon and the books are their own (which I’ve always thought anyway). He takes history as an inspiration but it’s not accurate and he is more concerned with the story. Either way, fans shouldn’t be concerned about the historical/book canon accuracy since it’s fantasy. 

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On 8/21/2022 at 9:34 PM, C.T. Phipps said:

Viserys DID change his decision because Daemon was his heir until the "Heir for the Day" remark

Forgive me if this has already been brought up downstream on this thread, but is it possible that Daemon never said "Heir for the Day".  We're taking his lack of denial as proof that he said it, but there is one other possibility.

That Daemon is protecting the person that actually said the toast, his mistress Mysaria.

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On 8/24/2022 at 11:44 PM, zajaz said:

I read some (alleged) leaks that, if true, could lead to some... interesting discussions about the whole Cole and Rhaenyra affair.

Yeah, it could be quite something, if true. I definitely expect a public meltdown online.

That being said, I don't believe that HBO mind public outrage as much as people believe, since it gives them tons of publicity.

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2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Yeah, it could be quite something, if true. I definitely expect a public meltdown online.

That being said, I don't believe that HBO mind public outrage as much as people believe, since it gives them tons of publicity.

I haven't heard it but let me guess,

Spoiler

Is it that Cole was having a tryst with both Rhaenyra and Laenor?  

Probably why they made him Dornish.

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2 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I haven't heard it but let me guess,

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Is it that Cole was having a tryst with both Rhaenyra and Laenor?  

Probably why they made him Dornish.

No.

Spoiler

Deaemon takes Rhaenyra to a brothel where they watch people have sex. They start doing it themselves, but Daemon stops at the last second and leaves. A still excited Rhaenyra goes to Criston and sleeps with him. 

All this with the younger actress still playing Rhaenyra.

 

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7 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

No.

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Deaemon takes Rhaenyra to a brothel where they watch people have sex. They start doing it themselves, but Daemon stops at the last second and leaves. A still excited Rhaenyra goes to Criston and sleeps with him. 

All this with the younger actress still playing Rhaenyra.

 

How old is she supposed to be in the show?

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1 minute ago, Frey family reunion said:

How old is she supposed to be in the show?

Sixteen.

  

20 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Forgive me if this has already been brought up downstream on this thread, but is it possible that Daemon never said "Heir for the Day".  We're taking his lack of denial as proof that he said it, but there is one other possibility.

That Daemon is protecting the person that actually said the toast, his mistress Mysaria.

I suspect it's more likely the context was lost.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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3 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I suspect it's more likely the context was lost.

It was the pause he gave before he gave his response that makes me suspicious that he's being very careful as to how he responds.  I'm willing to bet it was his mistress that gave the toast.  Those Essos women are always getting their Westerosi boyfriends in trouble.  

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Just now, Frey family reunion said:

I kind of assumed seventeen or eighteen.  Yea, I can see a stink being raised.

The context of that scene apparently is that

Spoiler

Rhaenyra is old enough to marry but has refused all the suitors who proposed to her to Viserys' chagrin. In his anger he even shuts down her suggestions at the Small Council (where she is present at that time).

This is at a time when Helaena is already born and Daemon returns from the Stepstones with his crown. They have an exchange over being trapped in marriages and Rhaenyra thinks she should not marry at all. Then Daemon gives her map of the secret tunnels, and she leaves her chambers, they meet up, disguise themselves, and go for a stroll in the city. Daemon teaches Rhaenyra basically that she can marry and still have fun - like he does. They watch folks having sex in a brothel, get a taste for it themselves, but Daemon stops before it gets too serious. Rhaenyra is very much aroused and therefore has sex with Criston Cole upon her return.

Otto learns about the brothel visit and accuses Daemon of sleeping with the princess. Viserys is very angry, banishes Daemon for 'spoiling' Rhaenyra and forces her to marry Laenor. Rhaenyra, in turn, demands that Otto be fired or else she is not going to marry at all. They force Rhaenyra to drink moon tea so she doesn't birth a bastard.

It is in the subsequent episode that Alicent learns that Rhaenyra never slept with Daemon but instead with Criston Cole. Criston has regrets over his slip there, and tries to persuade Rhaenyra to run away with him, etc. but she refuses, but asks him to stay on as her lover - which he won't do.

I think the whole point of that episode will be to hammer home the different rules for noble/royal men and women. Men can have sex as often as they want and with whoever they want ... but women can't.

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12 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I kind of assumed seventeen or eighteen.  Yea, I can see a stink being raised.

Actually, I suppose the question is how much of a time skip is going on. She's sixteen in episode 1 but the Council happens and Daemon is banished. She could well be significantly older by the time of....ahem.

At least 2 years or so given the War of the Stepstones happened.

The actress is 22 after all.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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