The Bard of Banefort Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Daemon has his own odd code in the books. He does all of his own killing—even with Blood and Cheese, he never denied he was behind it. Viserys clearly never believed Daemon would ever try to harm or overthrow him. When Rhaenyra became heir, he tried to marry her rather than assassinate her. He didn’t do anything to his nephews until after Luke’s death. He could have put a hit out on his first wife, but instead he just whined about her for 20 years. Even with Laena’s fiancé, he challenged him to a duel rather than taking him unawares. This is why I don’t think Daemon was behind the Harrenhal fire or Laenor’s death. He’s way too up-front for any of that. Jaehaerys Tyrell, The hairy bear, VisenyaTargaryen and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) Spoiler I totally believe Viserys will be compelled by evil council to kill the Strongs, possibly Corys. Edit: Spoiler tagged. Edited August 27, 2022 by C.T. Phipps Jaehaerys Tyrell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said: I totally believe Viserys will be compelled by evil council to kill the Strongs, possibly Corys. Doesn't Corlys survive the Dance? C.T. Phipps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: Doesn't Corlys survive the Dance? No, I mean Corys is probably the one who convinces Viserys to kill Rhaenyra's lover. -Wadsworth voice Edited August 27, 2022 by C.T. Phipps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oldstones Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) They aged up Rhaenyra yet they make Laena,who was originally 5 yr older than her way younger. And they make Viserys 40 from being 28/9 year old but he looks closer to 50. Rhaenyra stans are already in uproar on twitter since ep 1 cause Alicent is her friend instead of her "lover" & woman of color in Laena. Spoiler Casuals will really dislike it seeing that clip on twitter. Its weird enough for book readers given the age alteration. Even if it doesnt bear fruitation its worse than Lysa-Jon Arryn. Its more like Viserra and Old Manderly. Edited August 27, 2022 by Lightoftheast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said: Hide contents Casuals will really dislike it seeing that clip on twitter. Its weird enough for book readers given the age alteration. Its worse than Lysa-Jon Arryn They aged up Rhaenyra yet they make Laena,who was originally 5 yr older than her way younger. And they make Viserys 40 from being 28/9 year old but he looks closer to 50. Rhaenyra stans are already in uproar on twitter since ep 1 cause Alicent is her friend instead of her "lover" & woman of color in Laena. There was never any real proof that Rhaenyra had romantic feelings for Laena in the books. Shippers saw what they wanted to see and are upset that the show didn’t validate their headcanon. I have been wrong about a lot of stuff, but I remain firm in my belief that this show will upset progressives way more than it will upset conservatives (to use the polite terms for both). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said: They aged up Rhaenyra yet they make Laena,who was originally 5 yr older than her way younger. And they make Viserys 40 from being 28/9 year old but he looks closer to 50. Rhaenyra stans are already in uproar on twitter since ep 1 cause Alicent is her friend instead of her "lover" & woman of color in Laena. Hide contents Casuals will really dislike it seeing that clip on twitter. Its weird enough for book readers given the age alteration. Even if it doesnt bear fruitation its worse than Lysa-Jon Arryn. Its more like Viserra and Old Manderly. I think the aging up makes sense, though, for story purposes. A not-even-thirty Viserys is someone that Alicent might have an actual attraction to or be considered a reasonable match. This looks much-much skeevier. Remember a lot of people thought Daenerys and Jorah was pretty reasonable. Edited August 27, 2022 by C.T. Phipps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said: No, I mean Corys is probably the one who convinces Viserys to kill Rhaenyra's lover. -Wadsworth voice Just so I know going forward, have you read the leaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said: There was never any real proof that Rhaenyra had romantic feelings for Laena in the books. Shippers saw what they wanted to see and are upset that the show didn’t validate their headcanon. I have been wrong about a lot of stuff, but I remain firm in my belief that this show will upset progressives way more than it will upset conservatives (to use the polite terms for both). I'll take that bet because Far Right posters (I won't lump all conservatives under this) and content makers are FAR FAR more angry in general about these sorts of things. Though I acknowledge exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Just so I know going forward, have you read the leaks? Nope. I have not. My bad and that should be spoiler tagged anyway. My apologies! Edited August 27, 2022 by C.T. Phipps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said: I'll take that bet because Far Right posters (I won't lump all conservatives under this) and content makers are FAR FAR more angry in general about these sorts of things. Though I acknowledge exceptions. The YouTubers are, sure, but angry conservatives don’t write for online outlets. They’re more of a subculture than the mainstream culture. All the think pieces have been from places like Slate, Jezebel, and blue-check Twitter. (And for what it’s worth, although I rarely ever participate in feminist discourse, I often find myself agreeing with them when it comes to these shows. I don’t know if it’s the product of being such a big book fan, or if there’s just something about HBO that gets to me). Edited August 27, 2022 by The Bard of Banefort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: The YouTubers are, sure, but angry conservatives don’t write for online outlets. They’re more of a subculture than the mainstream culture. All the think pieces have been from places like Slate, Jezebel, and blue-check Twitter. (And for what it’s worth, although I rarely ever participate in feminist discourse, I often find myself agreeing with them when it comes to these shows. I don’t know if it’s the product of being such a big book fan, or if there’s just something about HBO that gets to me). Well I see huge-huge numbesrs of Youtube videos on this stuff. But for me, as a book superfan, I'm just MYSTIFIED that they missed so much feminist content in the books. Its a backbone of Westeros with Brienne, Arya, Daenerys, and Cersei. Hell, Asha Greyjoy. The issue of capable women being forced out of roles they're suited for by arbitrary sexism is like 20% of the politics of the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said: Well I see huge-huge numbesrs of Youtube videos on this stuff. But for me, as a book superfan, I'm just MYSTIFIED that they missed so much feminist content in the books. Its a backbone of Westeros with Brienne, Arya, Daenerys, and Cersei. Hell, Asha Greyjoy. The issue of capable women being forced out of roles they're suited for by arbitrary sexism is like 20% of the politics of the books. That’s the beauty of good writing: it instills themes without the reader noticing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 46 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: This is why I don’t think Daemon was behind the Harrenhal fire or Laenor’s death. He’s way too up-front for any of that. From what the reports said Spoiler the show is going to go with Daemon arranging Rhea's 'accident', and possibly also Laenor's end. Larys Strong will be behind the fire of Harrenhal, doing Alicent a favor so she can re-install Otto as Hand (although she didn't ask for that nor is she happy when she realizes what he has done). I'm not sure book Daemon ever publicly acknowledged or declared he arranged the Blood and Cheese thing. Gyldayn quotes a letter, but that was a private letter to Rhaenyra. And even there it is not clear that he wanted to kill one of the small children. 1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said: There was never any real proof that Rhaenyra had romantic feelings for Laena in the books. Shippers saw what they wanted to see and are upset that the show didn’t validate their headcanon. The 'more than fond' quote is pretty telling. That's more explicit than some maester speculating Elissa was Rhaena's true love. That said - it is just that quote and a very minor thing in the story, so no real reason to play this up. 49 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said: I totally believe Viserys will be compelled by evil council to kill the Strongs, possibly Corys. Even in the book context that never made any sense. Lyonel Strong was Viserys' Hand, and he had no intention to replace him, so if he wanted to target Harwin he would have done so in a way that didn't also kill his Hand and other people. 13 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said: Reveal hidden contents Casuals will really dislike it seeing that clip on twitter. Its weird enough for book readers given the age alteration. Its worse than Lysa-Jon Arryn They aged up Rhaenyra yet they make Laena,who was originally 5 yr older than her way younger. And they make Viserys 40 from being 28/9 year old but he looks closer to 50. No idea how old Considine is, but I went with Viserys being in his late 30s, reflecting that he is ten years older in the show than in the books. You don't have to imagine he is in his 40s. I hope the Viserys-Alicent dynamic is going to be shown in such a way that she makes the decision that she wants to marry him, not the other way around. Perhaps they will even have her suggest this to him in private. Talk like you read online about Rhaenys 'pimping out' Laena to Viserys are pretty much nonsensical. That's an arranged marriage they talk about, and royal/noble marriages in general must not involve sex or co-habitation (they do keep their own apartments, after all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: From what the reports said Hide contents the show is going to go with Daemon arranging Rhea's 'accident', and possibly also Laenor's end. That would be a bummer. I wish they'd leave it ambiguous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zajaz Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) Some leaks (some don't) also speak something about Viserys on his death bed that would probably (somewhat) justify Alicent's actions regarding the Green coup. Edited August 27, 2022 by zajaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 30 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Even in the book context that never made any sense. Lyonel Strong was Viserys' Hand, and he had no intention to replace him, so if he wanted to target Harwin he would have done so in a way that didn't also kill his Hand and other people. I seem to remember that the Hand made a last minute decision to go to Harrenhall. Viserys didn't think he'd be there when he gave the order. Sure poison probably would have been cleaner, but I don't imagine Viserys had a lot of experience secretly ordering people's deaths so maybe it's understandable that he or whoever he tasked with it did something stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 28 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: That would be a bummer. I wish they'd leave it ambiguous. Some of that is apparently going to be somewhat ambiguous but there are (clear) hints. 24 minutes ago, zajaz said: Some leaks (some don't) also speak something about Viserys on his death bed that would probably (somewhat) justify Alicent's actions regarding the Green coup. Yes, apparently Spoiler Viserys is going to confuse Alicent with Rhaenyra on his deathbed, talking to her about Aegon the Conqueror's dream, etc. and Alicent thinks he talks about their Aegon and has finally changed his mind. Feels like a nice and interesting touch, especially in light of the fact that the Greens also didn't really properly prepare for a coup/civil war (else there wouldn't have been a need for this long debate in the Small Council, etc.). They will also build up for that by having Viserys confuse Alicent with Aemma earlier. The reports also claim that Aegon is not going to believe that his father had such a change of heart, accusing his mother of lying there. I expect that to play into Aegon's arc of turning against Alicent and Otto quickly enough. He didn't want to be king ... but once they crowned him he wants to call the shots, not be a pawn of his mother and grandfather. Jaehaerys Tyrell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 14 minutes ago, RumHam said: I seem to remember that the Hand made a last minute decision to go to Harrenhall. Viserys didn't think he'd be there when he gave the order. Sure poison probably would have been cleaner, but I don't imagine Viserys had a lot of experience secretly ordering people's deaths so maybe it's understandable that he or whoever he tasked with it did something stupid. Well, Viserys also doesn't strike you as the kind of guy who would burn (down) a castle just to kill one guy. I also doubt that Viserys had agents at Harrenhal he contacted via raven telling them to cause a fire ... and then lacked the time and opportunity to double down on that since the Hand was with Harwin. If said agents were accompanying Harwin to Harrenhal it would have been even easier to stop the thing since Lyonel would have been part of Harwin's party. In general, I think a king can deal with folks he wants dead in a different manner - sending them a suicide mission, say. The Grand Maester suggesting this possibility didn't seem to have thought the whole thing through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 Again, discussion of leaked episodes and so on will get you banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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