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[Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion


Ran
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16 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, it shows how Otto basically grasps every straw to get rid of Daemon. The point there is to get him to return to Runestone. The odd thing there, however, is that he presumes to speak as if he was Daemon's father or Viserys himself. Only Daemon's father or king could command him to live with his wife or sleep with her.

I mean .. the man speaks for the Crown in front of the king himself :dunno:

14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t know how this never occurred to me before, but if they go through with the Corlys show, we probably will meet Jaehaerys, Alysanne, Aemon and Jocelyn, Baelon, etc. Sadly, Rhaena will probably be gone by then though.

isn't the point of 9 voyages that they feature in other parts of WoIaF? 

13 hours ago, teej6 said:

Did anyone see the similarity in Viserys “Promise me Rhaenyra, promise me” and Lyanna’s “Promise me Ned, promise me”? Was it just a coincidence or intentional? 

it definitely sounded as such to me . which unfortunately I found as cheesy.

45 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Getting hyped up for the next episode. Hope they don't rush this too much and let relationships flesh out.

my hopes too . especially the romantic ones who will die pretty soon , meaning Laena and Harwin. 

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3 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I mean .. the man speaks for the Crown in front of the king himself :dunno:

isn't the point of 9 voyages that they feature in other parts of WoIaF? 

it definitely sounded as such to me . which unfortunately I found as cheesy.

my hopes too . especially the romantic ones who will die pretty soon , meaning Laena and Harwin. 

Well, it might end with him marrying Rhaenys.

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2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Well, it might end with him marrying Rhaenys.

I will watch it in that case  : a man visiting every corner of the world only to return and fall in love with a princess who would (not) be the queen.

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3 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I mean .. the man speaks for the Crown in front of the king himself :dunno:

Yes, that's why I've started calling him 'Mr. Crown'.

And speaking about Otto and Viserys - their relationship could work better if we understood why Viserys trusted Otto as much as he did. Have they some backstory together?

1 minute ago, EggBlue said:

I will watch it in that case  : a man visiting every corner of the world only to return and fall in love with a princess who would (not) be the queen.

Pretty sure book Corlys never fell in love with Rhaenys. She was sixteen years old and he a man who had seen the entire world ... and who had had at least one love earlier who he lost.

For the show they can make it a love match on his part, too, I guess.

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7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yes, that's why I've started calling him 'Mr. Crown'.

And speaking about Otto and Viserys - their relationship could work better if we understood why Viserys trusted Otto as much as he did. Have they some backstory together?

that's one of the things I really want to see them explore . F&B doesn't have much on that other than Otto was Jaeherys's hand as well. but one wonders why on earth did Jaeherys called for a pretty young second son to be his hand when there were all the Targaryens , Velaryons and older more experienced courtiers around him.

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Pretty sure book Corlys never fell in love with Rhaenys. She was sixteen years old and he a man who had seen the entire world ... and who had had at least one love earlier who he lost.

For the show they can make it a love match on his part, too, I guess.

well the show is already establishing them as a love match according to interviews and obviously that's what we were talking about.

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21 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

And speaking about Otto and Viserys - their relationship could work better if we understood why Viserys trusted Otto as much as he did. Have they some backstory together?

I guess he was good at his job and never gave Viserys a reason to complain. So the king didn't want to fix something that wasn't broken.

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22 minutes ago, Ran said:

Otto was very learned, we know. He may have reminded the older Jaehaerys of Septon Barth.

I'd imagine that Vaegon knew of him and suggested him as Hand to his father. The old man seems to have been very dependent on his last son in 101 AC, not being able to come up with the idea of a Great Council all by himself. Alternatives would be Grand Maester Runciter or Lyman Beesbury (who likely was already in KL in 101 AC).

I don't think it makes sense that Otto had made himself enough of a reputation for it to reach the ears of a depressed and ailing king without the intercession of people who already had Jaehaerys' ear. I'm leaning towards Vaegon there, since Runciter was a new man and Beesbury could very likely have been a man brought in by Baelon while he was serving as Hand.

20 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I guess he was good at his job and never gave Viserys a reason to complain. So the king didn't want to fix something that wasn't broken.

In the book, Otto is only in office for two years when Viserys becomes king, and he may have taken steps to ingratiate himself with the new Heir Apparent, so it is not surprising Viserys kept him.

However, in the show Otto is in office for over ten years (if we assume he was also originally appointed by Jaehaerys there) and that leaves room for them having an actual story of their own. There could have been moments when Otto really helped Viserys, and they could be genuine friends. Which they clearly are not in the show. Viserys may think it, but they are not.

It also kind of helps to make the Otto-Daemon rivalry more believable. We can pretend that Otto originally tried to work with Daemon but eventually realized it was no good. In the book Otto is more of a moron, developing such strong feelings after working only a very short time with Daemon. Not to mention that Daemon's position as presumptive heir is much stronger in the show considering that Viserys and Aemma tried to have a son for ten years of their reign ... and one assumes for another ten years before that.

He is kind of in the same position as Borys Baratheon fancied himself in ... when Rogar finally got his miracle son from Alyssa.

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39 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

well the show is already establishing them as a love match according to interviews and obviously that's what we were talking about.

I imagine they will have to tweak some things there, considering that Corlys must have other romantic interests prior to meeting Rhaenys. Assuming they go with an age gap there. If they are closer in age she might actually accompany him on some of his voyages.

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

I asked Ryan about whether there would be nods to the chroniclers, Mushroom included, and he said yes and didn't elaborate. Orwyle has been cast, but no Eustace or Mushroom are named. That said, there is someone in episode 5 who keeps showing up in frame during the feast scene who might possibly be a nod to one of the chroniclers. We'll have to see what follows in the rest of the season if he shows up again or it's just coincidence.

I'm not surprised they haven't cast mushroom yet, it's probably hard to find a little person with a 3ft member who can also act.

I was wondering how permanent some of the casting was. Like the guy I assume was Cregan Stark swearing to Rhaenyra. Three seasons later when it's time for the hour of the wolf will it still be that actor? Or like what GoT did with Beric?

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8 minutes ago, farerb said:

The guy swearing to Rhaenyra was Rickon Stark, Cregan Stark's father.

Cregan is supposed to be in his 20's at the end of the Dance.

Thanks. I finally found my one of my copies of Fire & Blood I've got to refresh my memory on all this stuff.

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2 hours ago, Ran said:

Cregan's for sure coming next season. Ormund Hightower too, maybe, I'm guessing, unless they decide to give Otto his role instead.

Otto in Ormund's role would be very odd. They flew with him being a younger son, so the Lord of Oldtown should either be Otto's older brother or, as it is in the book, his nephew. And I'm guessing they are going to kind of play the Stannis card with Daeron - having a prince being mentioned repeatedly in the first season, to finally show both him and his 'court' as a major location in season 2.

Could be good to see some more of Oldtown in that season before they move to the Reach campaign, perhaps by having Oldtown actually being besieged by Black loyalists trying to avenge Lyman Beesbury. Hell, they could even show the Starry Sept and the High Septon and have Daeron be a kind of precursor to Baelor at first, hearing the calls of the Seven to become a septon. Have him as kind of an Achilles figure who only takes up arms mounts his dragon when there is no other choice could work pretty well there to create tension.

Edited by Lord Varys
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7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Didn't catch that - but there are quite a few allusions and little bookish tidbits. I think it might make sense to make a thread to allude to stuff like that.

The most overt (almost to the point of parody) in Fire & Blood, was Queen Alysanne and King jaehaerys journey from Blackhaven to Storm's End:

Quote

Queen Alysanne found the last especially congenial. Though his castle was small and modest compared to the great halls of the realm, Lord Dondarrion was a splendid host and his son Simon played the high harp as well as he jousted, and entertained the royal couple by night with sad songs of star-crossed lovers and the fall of kings. 

Quote

The great Baratheon stronghold of Storm’s End has but a single tower, the massive drum tower raised by Durran Godsgrief during the Age of Heroes to stand against the wroth of the storm god. At the top of that tower, beneath only the maester’s cell and the rookery, Alysanne and Jaehaerys found their mother asleep in a bed that stank of urine, drenched in sweat and gaunt as a crone, save for her swollen belly.

 

Edited by Frey family reunion
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Weirdo tidbits:

In the end the lords swear to Rhaenyra before Viserys actually names her the heir ... which makes no sense at all and is bad editing. I mean what is this? Do they all swear solemn vows when hanging out at court? And if they have already sworn, then what's the solemn declaration for? For the old guys at the end of the room who forgot what the hell they were doing here?

Also, Viserys cannot keep his pronouns straight - if he speaks in the first person, as the beginning of the sentence starting with 'I' indicates, then it would go like this:

'I, Viserys Targaryen, the first of my name, King of the Andals, etc.'

Not as they go with 'I, Viserys Targaryen, the first of his name'.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Also, Viserys cannot keep his pronouns straight - if he speaks in the first person, as the beginning of the sentence starting with 'I' indicates, then it would go like this:

'I, Viserys Targaryen, the first of my name, King of the Andals, etc.'

Not as they go with 'I, Viserys Targaryen, the first of his name'.

I don't think we've ever seen a king call himself by his full title before? 

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I think Mushroom would be a great character if they presented him as a standup comedian sort of character and possibly someone commenting on politics.

The juxtaposition of the fact he's a famous historical biographer and the king's fool is something that modern audiences might get.

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