Ser Criston Cole, coin crest roles, secret in colors, enter cross loci

[Evolett]

On 9/7/2022 at 4:41 PM, Seams said:

"Ferrous" is a word meaning "containing or consisting of iron". What if "cruciferous" is one of GRRM's wordplay clues meaning "iron cross"? When swords clash, they create an iron cross. 

But the "Ser Criston Cole" anagram also may give us a hint that "cross loci" (cross locations) can create other kinds of entrances - enter cross loci. This would explain why jousting tourneys seem to symbolize clashes over succession to the throne, resolution of other power struggles or conferring of special powers. When "iron crosses" occur (crossed swords) the victors of those conflicts gain the power to enter the Otherworld. (In Celtic mythology, mortal heroes are often drawn into the Underworld to resolve conflicts among the gods.) 

My mind is still a bunch of unordered thoughts on this but I do think you are right. So here goes:

I suspect twins (including symbolic twins) are important to solving the puzzle (two hills, two breasts, two turnips). Robb Stark entered the underworld at the crossing of the Twins. Consider Big Walder and Little Walder. They aren't twin brothers but the confusion GRRM has created regarding their naming and size (the big one is little and the little one is big) makes them symbolic twins. They are Big/Little and Little/Big. Whether they clash swords or not is unknown to us but they do cross paths at that precise location, the entrance to the underworld of the crypts, with Big Walder winning the competition for the entrance. Noteworthy: Rickon takes the Walder boys into the crypts after losing the lord of the crossing game.

We can also think of the crossing swords in terms of an X. In our world, the "X" of  course marks a location. Side note: Inn at the Crossroads, crossroads form an X and are believed to be a portal to the otherworld. Walder Frey's bridge and the river form a X. Seems like a good clue for locating such crossings. 

Next clue I've indentified: Erryk and Arryk Cargyle, twin brothers who actually cross swords but both die. The duel took place on Dragonstone. Does their dying mean Dragonstone is not a location for a crossing? I looked up the name Cargyle and guess what? The crest of an historic Cargyle family (Celtic. Pictish-Scottish, some of whom relocated to Ireland) contains a prominent X symbol. I'm yet to familiarize myself with their history but its interesting that there is a Symon in their lineage. 

The current Erryk and Arryk twins (Hobber and Slobber) are Lady Olenna's guards and if I recall correctly, they accompanied her to Highgarden. Perhaps Highgarden will be the location of a significant battle/fight involving the two. Maybe this identifies Highgarden as a new important location? 

Pennytree between the two hills is also a symbolic X crossing, if we imagine the tree cut down and lying between the hills. Jamie, a twin, arrives there and solves the issues between Bracken and Blackwood, meets Hildy who offers him her turnips and feels strangely attracted to her. Brienne arrives. Is Brienne Jamie's symbolic twin? Jamie's two horses are named Honor and Glory. I think these represent Brienne and Cersei respectively and Jamie appears to ride Honor rather than Glory. My guess is Stoneheart will command them to fight. (Their situation reminds me of the circumstances of the duel between Jon Snow and the Halfhand. ). Anyway, the location: Inn at the Crossroads. Like Erryk and Arryk, Brienne and Jamie also fall into the kingsguard category. Could it be that kingsguard can cross barriers because they are also meant to defend kings from or returning from the underworld? Brienne's king Renly returns from the underworld. Jamie sent Aerys to the underworld.. Hmm. Just a thought. 

Now consider this: Arthur Dayne and Ned Stark cross swords at the Tower of Joy, not just any swords. It's Dawn and Ice that cross each other. Ned wins and takes custody of the possible "promised prince" who since he was "promised by prophecy," may be a returnee from the underworld. If the crossing of these particular swords mark the tower of joy as an entrance or exit to the underworld, then we have three kingsguard knights defending this crossing. With Rhaegar dead and the Targs ousted, what might Arthur have done with Jon if he had won? Taken him to be brought up at Starfall and declare him a Dayne bastard? Killed him? Why was Ned more "worthy" of bring up Jon than Arthur? Are Arthur and Ned symbolic twins? The twin connection does suggest Dawn and Ice are twin swords. 

That we have only one tower at this location contrasts the two towers of the Twins. Not sure why this is significant but I think it is. The Hightower is one tower and a Hightower kingsguard was present. In the Knight of the Laughing Tree story the dishonorable knights are a pitchfork knight, a porcupine knight and the knight of the two towers (the twins). 

Jon and Edric (Ned) Dayne are "milk-brothers," twins in spirit so to speak or "milk twins" if you like.  If my theory regarding the transfer of ancestral souls through breast milk is correct, then Jon and Edric share the same ancestral soul, probably the same soul Ned has on account of the naming. I'll reserve my speculation on Jon's "spritual father" for another day. 

14 hours ago, Evolett said:

A cook's boy named Turnip participates in the game as well, losing to Little Walder. According to the appendix, Turnip is a pot girl and scullion (seems to be some mistake in the text)

Perhaps Turnip being a boy and a girl is deliberate, alluding to the "twin" turnips. 

 

Criston Cole the Kingmaker and symbolic cabbage: Turnips, beets and onions are cruciferous veggies but they are root vegetables that grow underground, thus their association with the underworld most probably. But the cabbage is different. It grows above ground. Jon is symbolically sheltered by a cabbage leaf. Since Ned hides Jon in plain sight (above ground), is Ned the symbolic cabbage and Kingmaker? 

[Seams]

I'm in awe of your discoveries. I keep meaning to collect my thoughts and try to make a coherent response, but then you dazzle me again and I'm off in another direction. I'll try to write back later today.

[Evolett]

A surprising and important discovery on the cruciferous motif: I've been toying with the idea that the "blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice" might be a reference to Gilly's baby, Monster, rather than to Jon, or perhaps to both. A chink in the wall would be a crack or breach. A chink in armor is a vulnerable spot or area, a potential weak spot that can mean the death of the wearer. So the flower which Dany later identifies as a rose could represent the crack or weak spot within the Wall. 

Gilly was named after the Gillyflower. It's a catchall name for several fragrant flowering species including carnations and wallflowers. The Gillyflower was also used in payment for so-called "peppercorn rent," a metaphor for a nominal fee, or small payment used to satisfy the terms of a legal contract usually pertaining to land. Till now, I've thought this to indicate that Craster's baby boys are given to the Others in payment for services rendered, perhaps in return for the land on which he lives or as part of the supposed pact. That Gilly is a "wallflower" also seems valid especially since she ends up at the Wall.

What I've only just discovered is that Wallflowers are cruciferous plants belonging specifically to the cabbage family putting Gilly in line with the cross location symbolism, and of course being a mother and wet-nurse to Monster and baby Aemon, she is also a "neep entry or exit." It all fits. Gilly is no longer at the Wall but her baby is so perhaps the little one is indeed the "chink in the wall." 

On the other hand the blue winter roses are associated with Jon and with Bael characters. Bael "breached" the Wall, so did Mance Abel and so did Jon (Jon by climbing). The symbolism does suggest both gillyflower and blue winter rose characters can cross magical barriers in one way or another. And we note Bael and the Stark daughter hid in the underworld of the crypts while Lyanna resides in the crypts, a departure from tradition. I'm still undecided on whether the gillyflower = blue winter rose or is a variation thereof. 

Now for some speculation: there are 19 forts at the Wall, 19 women of the freefolk at CB, Craster had 19 wives, 19 obsidian arrowheads left of the cache Ghost found. What if it is the 19th wife or her baby that deactivates the Wall and opens the "door" for the Others? 

[Frey family reunion]

13 hours ago, Evolett said:

A surprising and important discovery on the cruciferous motif: I've been toying with the idea that the "blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice" might be a reference to Gilly's baby, Monster, rather than to Jon, or perhaps to both. A chink in the wall would be a crack or breach. A chink in armor is a vulnerable spot or area, a potential weak spot that can mean the death of the wearer. So the flower which Dany later identifies as a rose could represent the crack or weak spot within the Wall. 

 

Interesting stuff.  I would add that the "chink in the wall" is probably a reference to both  Shakespeare's A Midsummer's Night Dream and the tale that is directly referenced in AMND which is the Ovid tale of Pyramus and Thisbe.  

In the tale of Pyramus and Thisbe, the "chink in the wall" was how the two main characters started their romance, by talking to each other though a chink in the wall that seperated their cojoined houses. In A Midsummer's Night Dream, it was the tale of Pyramus and Thisbe that the characters were performing within the play.  And there was actually a character who played the part of the chink in the wall.

I think the idea of a chink in the wall has two connotations.  One as you said is a breach or break in the defenses.  The other is that it is a line of communication that opens up between two groups of people seperated either by a literal wall or a figurative one.  I think Jon and Ygritte's relationship would represent both interpretations.  Their relationship helped form Jon's more liberal attitudes towards the wildlings which in turn opened the gates, allowing the wildlings through the Wall.  

Sam and Gilly's relationship could also serve the same purpose.

 

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[Evolett]

59 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I think the idea of a chink in the wall has two connotations.  One as you said is a breach or break in the defenses.  The other is that it is a line of communication that opens up between two groups of people seperated either by a literal wall or a figurative one.  I think Jon and Ygritte's relationship would represent both interpretations.  Their relationship helped form Jon's more liberal attitudes towards the wildlings which in turn opened the gates, allowing the wildlings through the Wall.  

Yes, I can go with this, especially since I see Jon more in the role of a conciliator and negotiator than turning against humanity to lead the Others as some readers suspect. A possible scenario:  with Gilly certain that the white walkers want and will come for their "brother," it's possible that baby Monster is the "chink" that will lead to constructive communication between humanity (or Jon specifically as the second "chink") and the Others. 

[Seams]

14 hours ago, Evolett said:

the "blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice"

Widow's Wail is also a name for a blue flower. Since Joffrey's sword was apparently made with steel from the sword Ice, this could be part of the puzzle.

I suspect there might also be a wordplay clue. In the Dunk and Egg stories, Dunk frequently remarks on how many inches he has grown, and the illustrations show us that he has a big chin. So I think the author wants us to sort out "chin / inch" wordplay. (Ser Lucas Longinch, who looks as if he is walking the Wall when Dunk first meets him, is also part of this motif.)

But. 

The word "chink" might incorporate both "inch/chin" and KIN. We know that kin and kinslayers are important. I suppose there could also be "ink" in the wordplay, which would tie this into Ser Cortnay Penrose (House sigil is crossed quill pens - hmm - another cross?). Since Cortnay is both the guard of a walled fortress and the guardian of a bastard son, this does seem relevant. 

[Seams]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

I think the idea of a chink in the wall has two connotations.  One as you said is a breach or break in the defenses.  The other is that it is a line of communication that opens up between two groups of people seperated either by a literal wall or a figurative one. 

Fantastic! I bet you're right.

If this also applies to Ser Duncan the Tall, who is often referred to as "thick as a castle, wall," I bet it explains his role in bringing the Targaryen and Blackfyre branches back together; healing the rift. (Also Webber and Osgrey.) He is probably kin to the Targaryen / Blackfyres, but he is also constantly gaining an inch in height and he has a large chin. I think Bloodraven recognizes him as the person he needs to get the realm back onto an even keel by crossing barriers to end division. 

(In The Hedge Knight, a fence in the lists breaks when a horse falls on it; in The Sworn Sword, Dunk seems to be able to cross the Chequy Water when others cannot.)

[Evolett]

My reply to this post in the Lord Dustins bones thread is more fitting here, so here goes: 

The comments about horses sparked off some connections in my head, especially this:

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Seams said:

(I think I wrote about gift horses a year or two ago, although I still don't understand them entirely. Drogo gives Dany her "silver;" Joffrey receives a saddle and riding boots but no horse as a groom gift, etc.) 

I think I know why Joffery does not receive a horse along with the gear. Symbolically, at this point he already has a horse: Margaery. Margaery is fond of riding and goes on frequent excursions with her cousins. Cersei comments on this. Later as Cersei plots to destroy Margaery, she consistently refers to her as a "filly" and speaks of Ser Osumund "riding" her. This is only one of many examples:

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“Tell your brother to keep his spurs well honed. I shall find some way for him to mount his filly soon, you may rely on that.” “I’ll tell him, Your Grace. He’s eager for that ride, don’t think he ain’t. She’s a pretty little thing, that filly.”

That got me thinking about Sansa. In the fateful chapter that takes place near the Ruby Ford, Sansa and Arya have a tiff over the queen's invitation, with Sansa exasperated by Arya's love of horses, riding and smelling of the stables. She says she hates riding:

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“I hate riding,” Sansa said fervently. “All it does is get you soiled and dusty and sore.” Arya shrugged.

but a few paragraphs later, enthusiastically agrees to Joff's suggestion to go riding, leaving Lady behind. 

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Joffrey reflected a moment. “We could go riding.” “Oh, I love riding,” Sansa said.

Sansa goes riding to please the prince but Margaery genuinely loves riding. Perhaps on a symbolic level, Joffery wants a wife who loves riding and senses that Sansa is faking it, hence his rejection of her. He then gets into a fight with Mycah and Arya who are crossing swords, Arya being the born rider here but any chance Joff and Arya coming together is ruined by the conflict. In the beginning, Joff starts of by attempting to defend Arya from Mycah, or so he says. Maybe Renly asking Ned if Margaery's portrait resembled Lyanna is also connected to this horse and riding aspect.

So perhaps kings need to ride special "horses," or women that love to ride and are born riders. This could explain Dany's Silver, gifted to her by Drogo. She had hardly ever ridden and didn't consider herself a good rider but she handled her Silver as if born to it from the minute she set off, even daring a jump over a flaming firepit. Gifting a horse to Dany and having her immediately ride it could have been to test her riding ability, which of course is paramount to the Dothraki. Perhaps like the Khal, she as khaleesi must never fall from her horse, the later possibly meaning entering the underworld, never to return. In the end, it's Dany who covers up his falling, sees to his revival and allows him to die a natural death in the eyes of the people, after which he rises again to the stars. Or maybe sacrificing Mirri was the price paid for his ascension, in spite of his fall. 

I'm sure all this relates  to the "crossing" motif, though I'm not sure how. The firepit Dany jumps over appears to be another kind of crossing. The scene between Sansa, Joff, Mycah and Arya takes place near the Ruby Ford. Having a born rider as a wife may facilitate a crossing. I'm kind of back to spirits crossing over from the underworld to the real world. 

 

The conflict near the Ruby Ford ends with Ned killing Lady himself and sending her bones to Winterfell because he does not want "the Lannister woman to have her skin." This has bugged me for a long time. It reminds me of the founding of House Lannister. Since the Casterlys came into possession of the Rock after eliminating the resident lions that were preying on sheep, it's likely the Casterlys took the lion as their emblem, with the Lannisters keeping it after Lann the Clever's take over. Perhaps the Lannisters are interested in "collecting" predators. They have dogs and lions but wolves have been elusive so far and this was a chance to acquire a wolf. In the end they lose all their human "wolves." They also lose one "dog" and manage to keep the other through Qyburn's necromancy. Perhaps they lose their "lions" too or at least their "bite" when Arya disposes of Lion's Tooth in the river. 
 

[Evolett]

2 hours ago, Evolett said:

The firepit Dany jumps over appears to be another kind of crossing.

This must be related to Alys Karstark's marriage to Sigorn. They have to jump over a fire pit as part of the ceremony. Besides the many times we are reminded of Mel's vision of a grey girl on a dying horse, supposedly Arya, Alys is described as "coltish." Jon also thinks she looks a bit like Arya. 

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A tall, skinny, coltish girl, all legs and elbows ..

Alys is also in that Alyssa group of names linked to silver, like Alysanne with Silverwing. Dany jumps over the fire on her silver horse. Sigorn is Magnar of Thenn, the closest the wildlings come to a lord or king in the southern Westerosi sense. So it looks as though Sigorn gets a wife good at riding or a "ridable horse." I wonder how the dying horse fits in though? Alys is just as beat as her horse when she arrives at Castle Black. What rejuvenates her? Perhaps the fire? In analogy to the Dany's first ride that she finds so easy to handle that she jumps over a fire?