US Politics: We Don’t Need No Stinking Lawyers

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Rep. Cheap Liquor sees something wrong here:

Clowns. 

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, ThinkerX said:

The comments sections to various political articles are filled with conservative posters insisting the US is 'a republic, not a democracy.' 

They're not wrong, they're just assholes.

[Jaxom 1974]

I realize this should be obvious, but I'm still trying to understand...but does this student loan debt cancelation pertain only to federal loans...?

[Wade1865]

9 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I realize this should be obvious, but I'm still trying to understand...but does this student loan debt cancelation pertain only to federal loans...?

Jaxom 1984 — no; Pell grants, too.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

They're not wrong, they're just assholes.

They don’t understand that all “Republic” means is a government without a titular monarch.  They are absolutely unable to tell anyone the difference between a “Constitutional Republic” and a “Representative Democracy”.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

39 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

Jaxom 1984 — no; Pell grants, too.

Pell grants are grants… not loans.  They don’t have to be repaid.  I know I had Pell Grants in Undergrad.  I didn’t have to repay those.

[Martell Spy]

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I realize this should be obvious, but I'm still trying to understand...but does this student loan debt cancelation pertain only to federal loans...?

Well, one Biden didn't really want to forgive any loans at all. We know this because he said he wanted Congress to do it. It's surprising he's gone this far. And the plan is actually far more generous than I expected.

And two, it's likely easier. When I had private loans they were held by a company. I had to negotiate with them completely separately from the Department of education. If Biden had wanted to pay them off, or do so for millions of people, he'd have had to get funding and also arrange payment with this private company. It might sound easy, but I imagine it's not on that huge scale.

[Fez]

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I realize this should be obvious, but I'm still trying to understand...but does this student loan debt cancelation pertain only to federal loans...?

Because the legal authority that the administration was able to find to justify the move only pertains to debt held by the Dept. of Education. They can forgive that debt. But issuing new debt to pay off loans held by private entities is a much different action. It would certainly require an action of Congress is authorize.

As is, even this move will get challenged if anyone can prove to have standing (which may be difficult actually). The legal authority that the administration was able to find was the HEROES Act from 2003, which was intended to allow the Dept. of Education to ease loan terms for members of military who serve in Afghanistan. But it was written extremely broadly and didn't have a sunset provision, so here we are.

[Kalbear]

4 minutes ago, Fez said:

Because the legal authority that the administration was able to find to justify the move only pertains to debt held by the Dept. of Education. They can forgive that debt. But issuing new debt to pay off loans held by private entities is a much different action. It would certainly require an action of Congress is authorize.

As is, even this move will get challenged if anyone can prove to have standing (which may be difficult actually). The legal authority that the administration was able to find was the HEROES Act from 2003, which was intended to allow the Dept. of Education to ease loan terms for members of military who serve in Afghanistan. But it was written extremely broadly and didn't have a sunset provision, so here we are.

Yeah. It won't stand up in court. 

[Wade1865]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Pell grants are grants… not loans.  They don’t have to be repaid.  I know I had Pell Grants in Undergrad.  I didn’t have to repay those.

Ser Scot A Ellison — I believe you; however, some Pell Grants are required to be returned under certain circumstances. On Pell Grants, Uncle Joe is somehow using those as a means toward knocking off another 20K USD. I don’t know the details, but I think it’s a political work-around to provide additional relief to students.

[Larry of the Lawn]

47 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

Ser Scot A Ellison — I believe you; however, some Pell Grants are required to be returned under certain circumstances. On Pell Grants, Uncle Joe is somehow using those as a means toward knocking off another 20K USD. I don’t know the details, but I think it’s a political work-around to provide additional relief to students.

Pell grant recipients get an $20k of relief instead of $10k.  This is because Pell grants are given out to students whose families have fewer resources to pay for college, they are need based aid.  

[Wade1865]

15 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

Pell grant recipients get an $20k of relief instead of $10k.  This is because Pell grants are given out to students whose families have fewer resources to pay for college, they are need based aid.  

Larry of the Lake — yes, that rings true; very helpful. I thought he was attempting a work-around to provide more relief, but 20K USD is still decent.

[SpaceChampion]

$10k doesn't sound like that much, but that will wipe out the debt of one third of the 43 million with federal student loans, so this is a bigger deal than I thought.  I wonder how much private loans that group has.

[Wade1865]

6 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

$10k doesn't sound like that much, but that will wipe out the debt of one third of the 43 million with federal student loans, so this is a bigger deal than I thought.  I wonder how much private loans that group has.

SpaceChampion — yes, especially for young students; 10K USD is relatively significant. 20K for the poors, though. One student interviewed had just found out about it, and responded with something like, “I was shaking.” When I was in college, that kinda money would take me a year to acquire.

I’ve got mixed feelings about it (what’s the cost, moral and financial; and what about precedent), but I’m still happy for them. This should facilitate their mid- to long-term success in life, but I’m skeptical considering conditions today. In any case, Uncle Joe has been stacking them tendies. I’m starting to forget about his hair sniffing.

[The Anti-Targ]

11 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

The comments sections to various political articles are filled with conservative posters insisting the US is 'a republic, not a democracy.' 

It is a republic, which therefore means only one party should ever be in power: the Republicans. It's in the name duh! That is clearly what the constitution intended: the republic is to be ruled by Republicans. I mean it's just so obvious, how can anyone possibly think otherwise?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

@Mlle. Zabzie

Any word on whether 1099s will issue for the loan forgiveness?  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

$10k doesn't sound like that much, but that will wipe out the debt of one third of the 43 million with federal student loans, so this is a bigger deal than I thought.  I wonder how much private loans that group has.

The problem with this route though is it's only going to increase the cost of education going forward and future students will expect more bailouts. Just do the smart thing and cap what it costs to go to a public university.

[The Anti-Targ]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The problem with this route though is it's only going to increase the cost of education going forward and future students will expect more bailouts. Just do the smart thing and cap what it costs to go to a public university.

I think the only sensible cap is $0, with a $100/semester administration fee.

[Wade1865]

Providing student loans seems predatory, detracting from post-education success (buying homes, starting a family, etc.). Whereas, forgiving the loans seems exploitative, influencing student behavior (buying votes, minimizing individual responsibility, etc.). Overall, I’d say this dynamic will prove to be an (unintentionally) effective way to maintain control over a key subpopulation, through both coercion and influence.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

27 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

@Mlle. Zabzie

Any word on whether 1099s will issue for the loan forgiveness?  

Haven’t been following that closely, but a headline in the tax trades this morning suggests that it is intended to be tax free….(a 2021 act made student loan forgiveness tax free through 2025).  I know it is top of mind for a lot of people on this board so I’ll look a little more when not on a train (NOT TAX ADVICE).  If true, please note for those playing along at home, you can think of this as a direct non-taxable handout of cash to those who benefit.  

I have to say I am way more focused on the unadministrable morass created by the f/k/a Inflation Reduction Act.