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US Politics: We Don’t Need No Stinking Lawyers


Ser Scot A Ellison

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4 hours ago, Wade1865 said:

James Arryn -- that's an excellent analysis, and much appreciated given my current phase of reflection. Prior to retirement, assessing others and determining motivations was paramount given the prevalence of the realpolitik practiced around me (ironically, it proved more useful negotiating with Americans (i.e., hyper-competitive peers and the occasional senior of dubious motivation), rather than foreigners). Back then, avoiding being read was a practicality; here now, it's fascinating to be the subject of one, albeit anonymously online. This explains why I'm so interested in personality tests at the moment, hahaha.

I confirm, your overall assessment is correct. I have some inherent affinity with fascism as you observed; specifically, far right, ultranationalist, militarist, and natural social hierarchy. On the other hand, I don't align with authoritarianism, centralization, suppression of the opposition, or racism (though my outlook is culturalist). Of course, I don't and never will practice fascism in America because it's incompatible, and I don't like the idea of marginalizing others of different origin and identity (beyond amicably-intended teasing). Instead, I actively practice capitalism given my will and capacity to secure a meritocratic position within it for me and my family, which overrides any of the benefits fascism might provide.

My political origin is, I'm sure, a product of nature and nurture. My mother's particular family~clan (historical fascists) originated in Laos. Post-WWII, her minority branch relocated across the Mekong into Thailand where they established themselves into the military and judicial spheres of power. The other majority branch remained in Laos where they continued to operate as Royalists within the military and associated criminal spheres, profiting off gambling, human and drug trafficking, and -- amusingly -- a vertically integrated seafood company operating between Bangkok and Vientiane. At the time, both branches remained closely integrated.

Enter my father, a progressive Democrat from New England, and career airman. My parents met in the early 70s, towards the close of the Vietnam War. They both enjoyed the status, glamor, and high privilege associated across the Thai military and judicial; Lao military and criminal; and US military and imperial domains. I experienced it as well, to a lesser degree during my youth, and a greater degree as an adult.

Unfortunately, in 1975 the Communist Pathet Lao defeated the Royal Lao Government and slaughtered that branch of my mother's family. Survivors fled to Thailand, France, and America. The branch in Thailand remained there, improving their positions of power to this day. I went with my immediate family to America, and eventually into the US Army; did my time in the US wars of imperialism; secured a little status and a lot of money; retired as a private citizen with no political ambitions; and, now I'm writing this to you. Overall, those were strange and interesting times; exciting, too.

Well, first off thanks again for the polite, respectful tone to what many would have freaked out. I suspected/gambled that you pride yourself in not getting tied down by the constraints of conventional morality re: fascism and probably think you objectively see it as just another political system, with good and bad points, and that others are too irrationally conditioned to be able to assess it objectively. 
 

I also suspected ~ first generation American coming from somewhere which had been subjected to Soviet or Communist Chinese oppression or opposition, though tbh I was thinking more post-Eastern Bloc. So in a way I did and did not assess you correctly, and the ‘meeting in Nam’ thing did not occur to me. Sounds very interesting indeed. Also someone born into a quasi military/criminal (I know in SE Asia, like many places, there’s a significant overlap there) dynasty your ~ desensitization to things like the harm Trump does to others while being the same narcissistic career shyster he’s always been makes more sense. 
 

I have a non-question to not ask you though re: authoritarianism. You come from military backgrounds on both sides, including one for whom it is the family trade, and you yourself served for an extended period of time. So my unasked non-question for you to consider is: don’t you think it’s extremely likely you’ve been institutionalized? Obviously that’s a non-question because a big part of being institutionalized is not really getting that you are institutionalized, but imo it would be weird for someone with your life to manage to avoid it. And is there any institution on earth that both needs and engenders authoritarianism more than the military? Just something to consider. Either way I get the impression we might have different understandings of what the term means. 
 

Either way, an interesting life, no doubt. I’ve had one myself, though a universe away from yours. 

Edit: and though I think you mean it in a slightly polemically unapologetic way, I respect that you call American military imperialism for what it is. And speaking of authoritarianism, I’m in my most anti-American mood, my take on the country can maybe best be described by the following stats:

*around 88% of Americans supported the invasion of Afghanistan.

*only around 56% of Americans could identify the Taliban.  
 

Meaning, among a great many other things, that ~ a third of Americans supported killing a ton of people/civilians/children over there they didn’t know the first thing about. Forget even the question of how objective or informed the other 2/3 were, but the fact that 1/3 approved of destroying a people they openly knew literally nothing about. That’s…yeah. 

 

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2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

And here I was lead to believe you didn't feel the Bern.

I do not feel that these capitalist enterprises should be rewarded for their misuse of public (via private transaction) funds. So I do not think I feel the Bern. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

 

 

Needs to go a step further. The primary goal of the colleges themselves is to make money by exploiting the above fact. They are no longer institutions of learning, but exploitation. Some learning happens, I'm sure, entirely on accident.

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

The ending is a chef's kiss. 

That it still takes several hours and a formal complaint to ruin a racist's reputation is a bit of an indictment on society still tolerating racism among the powerful elites. Their reputation should have been ruined the moment people showed up to the party and [allegedly] witnessed racism in action. If it still requires a black person to point out racism, that's a problem.

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4 hours ago, LongRider said:

 

Blasphemy. Leave that movie alone!

How about "Dumb and dumber"

 

Ooooh, Hannity, F*cker, and Dobbs are going to be deposed next week in the Dominion defamation suit!

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28 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Blasphemy. Leave that movie alone!

 

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Or basically any horror film. Shit just call it Aliens.

Alien -vs- Predator, no voting booth is safe!   :o   :eek:   :fencing:

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29 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Wonder if anyone's bothering to keep track of how the romperdoody supporter's story keeps changing as to why authoritarianism is his ideology.

Zorral — honestly, I don’t align as authoritarian. And after looking at the Wikipedia definition of fascism, only half of the characteristics were appealing. If I really were one, I’d admit it. Likewise, I find much of communist thought to be appealing in its truth, but I’m not a communist either. If anything, I’m a Capitalist.

Ironically, I often rebelled against the various authorities I served (which was not wise)! I’ve been demoted once, punished with UCMJ action 3 times (fighting, disobedience, and something else), and investigated by counterintel, too, hahaha.

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1 hour ago, LongRider said:

This a long thread, great trolling. 
 

 

What gets me is the assumption that plumbers and carpenters have not gone to a tertiary institution and don't have student loan debt. Maybe they don't in relation to their chosen profession, but maybe some of them went to university simply because they wanted more than just a high school education and they wanted the college experience, before they entered the workaday life...

... of course the prospect of being saddled with debt for life means a major disincentive for people to get a higher education simply for personal benefit...

...of course there are political / electoral benefits, more for one ideology than another, to keeping people from low income backgrounds minimally educated.

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1 hour ago, Wade1865 said:

Zorral — honestly, I don’t align as authoritarian. And after looking at the Wikipedia definition of fascism, only half of the characteristics were appealing. If I really were one, I’d admit it. Likewise, I find much of communist thought to be appealing in its truth, but I’m not a communist either. If anything, I’m a Capitalist.

 

So you're the worst of all 4 of those options then? :P

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12 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Well, first off thanks again for the polite, respectful tone to what many would have freaked out. I suspected/gambled that you pride yourself in not getting tied down by the constraints of conventional morality re: fascism and probably think you objectively see it as just another political system, with good and bad points, and that others are too irrationally conditioned to be able to assess it objectively. 
 

I also suspected ~ first generation American coming from somewhere which had been subjected to Soviet or Communist Chinese oppression or opposition, though tbh I was thinking more post-Eastern Bloc. So in a way I did and did not assess you correctly, and the ‘meeting in Nam’ thing did not occur to me. Sounds very interesting indeed. Also someone born into a quasi military/criminal (I know in SE Asia, like many places, there’s a significant overlap there) dynasty your ~ desensitization to things like the harm Trump does to others while being the same narcissistic career shyster he’s always been makes more sense. 
 

I have a non-question to not ask you though re: authoritarianism. You come from military backgrounds on both sides, including one for whom it is the family trade, and you yourself served for an extended period of time. So my unasked non-question for you to consider is: don’t you think it’s extremely likely you’ve been institutionalized? Obviously that’s a non-question because a big part of being institutionalized is not really getting that you are institutionalized, but imo it would be weird for someone with your life to manage to avoid it. And is there any institution on earth that both needs and engenders authoritarianism more than the military? Just something to consider. Either way I get the impression we might have different understandings of what the term means. 
 

Either way, an interesting life, no doubt. I’ve had one myself, though a universe away from yours. 

Edit: and though I think you mean it in a slightly polemically unapologetic way, I respect that you call American military imperialism for what it is. And speaking of authoritarianism, I’m in my most anti-American mood, my take on the country can maybe best be described by the following stats:

*around 88% of Americans supported the invasion of Afghanistan.

*only around 56% of Americans could identify the Taliban.  
 

Meaning, among a great many other things, that ~ a third of Americans supported killing a ton of people/civilians/children over there they didn’t know the first thing about. Forget even the question of how objective or informed the other 2/3 were, but the fact that 1/3 approved of destroying a people they openly knew literally nothing about. That’s…yeah. 

 

James Arryn -- you were right re my reaction, as per my view of morality; I'd never feel offended. Notable was your reaction, willing to interact without resorting to the standard behavior of the masses on the left and right, which adds no value and thus no understanding. I'm not asking for your profession, but you do strike me as someone who either practices one of the behavioral or psychological disciplines, or is at least well read on it. There's a lot of value in personal histories, whether common or uncommon. I intend to engage you in the near future, as I suspect you've had an uncommon history.

On being an American, I'll have to qualify that, although I was technically born in Asia and was exposed to local culture, I'm a natural-born American fortunate enough to have experienced my youth from an imperialist point of view. You can imagine the socioeconomic barriers. Few people would perceive me, physically or behaviorally, as a local. Interestingly, there were many cases of locals crossing over into our camp, serving with us as equals (as opposed to collaborators or service providers).

On institutionalization, I find that fascinating. Although I look at it from a layman's perspective, I can admit being institutionalized. Walking through any door, and seeing the various environments (i.e., the barracks, motor pools, formation areas, fitness centers, battlespace; always gave me a feel of sort of institution and all the dread, risk, and threat that goes with it. For example, one aspect of any combat arms, but espeically of the Infantry, is how dark any interaction could become. A socially or physically weak Soldier, who demonstrated a lack of will upon being tested, would spend his term suffering -- and no one, including leadership, would intervene.

On imperialism, I think it's self-evident. At the individual level, though most sympathetic Americans, with good intentions, see US actions as helping others who want to be free (i.e., most of the 88%), there's an underlying personal self-interest. True believers who signed up were often patriots (primarily, to defend American; and secondarily, to help the oppressed) or adventurers (fame and fortune, or excitement). The rest conprised college fund kids, the bored, or those looking to improve their life). At the national level, even WWII was a matter of US interests; can't think of any non-imperialist US war beyond the War of Independence. Anti-Americanism is justified, especially if you go beyond war and consider the economic, information, and diplomatic domains of national power. The US isn't a force for Goodness; it's a force for Greatness.

Anyways, it's amazing to read how we see the same things in such different ways -- humanity!

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As women and reproductive medical rights and care are what women have to consider pretty much every day during most of their lives, the denial of this medical care from so many directions, directly impacting their health and even survival is not something women voters will forget about by the time the elections roll around, one might think. Particularly white women voters in the middle class who have lived all their lives with these rights and care, which now by opus dei authoritarian fiat have been snatched away, against their will.  This isn't the same as outrage for a day by White people sometimes, over what They do to African Americans and other Others -- this affects them every single day of their lives.

:dunno:  It also shows exactly what it means for them in a fascist, authoritarian, nationalist, xtian nation. For millions of women they are there right this minute.

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14 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

You really can't make this shit up.

Texas Right to Life political director fired after arrest for soliciting a minor online

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/8/26/2118920/-Texas-Right-to-Life-political-director-fired-after-arrest-for-soliciting-a-minor-online

These southern conservative Christians are quite the players...but mainly at the junior highs it appears. I wonder if he goes mall cruising with Roy Moore?

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