Watch, Watched, Watching: No Dragons Allowed

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

When I first went skiing in Italy and had pizza from a proper pizza oven (newcastle has no pizza culture at all). It was a revelation, I remember being bamboozled the first time I saw a pizza go into an oven and come out 45 seconds later. It was a total revelation, I was sure the sauce was made out of something other than tomatoes, as it tasted so completely different to anything I ever tasted. 

Kind of glad that better pizza culture is spreading. Last week we went to a local bakery where the owner has been to Naples to learn the trade and he makes pizzas for lunch a couple of days a week in a wood-fired oven that turned out very nicely. There's a pizzeria in Falkenberg considered the best in Sweden, with its pizzas sold out days in advance (as we found out the hard way when we happened to be passing by and thought, ah, it can't be that bad...). Even had a nice Neapolitan pizza in Oslo last year.

 

6 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

If/when I win the lottery I'm having a pizza oven built in the garden. 

That's the stuff. 

Though there's some pretty great compact ovens being made, some that can even use wood chips. Ooni is I think the name of a European brand. 

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

 

 

That's the stuff. 

Though there's some pretty great compact ovens being made, some that can even use wood chips. Ooni is I think the name of a European brand. 

I've got one that sits on top of my fire pit, it gets to about 450 degrees, which is fine for a decent pizza, but not quite hot enough to make 'amazing' pizza. 

[Heartofice]

15 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Watched "The Woman King"

As usual Viola Davis is solid, although in a bit of a turn for her, this was like she was channeling a "Regina King like" action character.

Its based on a true story (1820's West Africa).

 

Isn’t it notoriously ahistorical and being accused of whitewashing the African slave trade?

[DireWolfSpirit]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Isn’t it notoriously ahistorical and being accused of whitewashing the African slave trade?

Possibly, i mean they dont depict the 2 non African traders as some sort innocents or anything so theres that.

One traders (who is half white) mother was from same village as the captives is given some redemption when he assists a captured slave from that village.

Perhaps thats the objection, that he's propped up in such a manner, despite being part of the overall ruthlessness?

[DireWolfSpirit]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I've got one that sits on top of my fire pit, it gets to about 450 degrees, which is fine for a decent pizza, but not quite hot enough to make 'amazing' pizza. 

Isnt it only considered proper when it makes a giant mozzarella bubble mark?

[Heartofice]

26 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Possibly, i mean they dont depict the 2 non African traders as some sort innocents or anything so theres that.

One traders (who is half white) mother was from same village as the captives is given some redemption when he assists a captured slave from that village.

Perhaps thats the objection, that he's propped up in such a manner, despite being part of the overall ruthlessness?

Wasn’t it that the Dahomey tribe that is used in the movie were in fact notorious slave traders?

[Ran]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Wasn’t it that the Dahomey tribe that is used in the movie were in fact notorious slave traders?

As I understand it, they still are slavers in the film. But the eponymous main character is invented and is given an anti-slavery stance that features in the film.

Back in the 70s and 80s there were arguments that the Dahomey actually had origins in a group that opposed slavery, that they were "forced" to take it up in the 18th century,  but that a growing faction of anti-slavery Dahomes ended up having substantial influence by the era of the film.... but digging into it further, a lot of that was debunked by other academics as a combination of misinterpreted evidence and wishful thinking. Still, those view points --  even if wrong -- may have influenced this dramatized rendering of the culture.

[Veltigar]

Just finished the latest episode of the Rings of Power. I was quite optimistic for the first three episodes. It was never more than serviceable, but I had hoped it would tick up.

Instead I feel like I have soured on the show. It's rather dull and nonsensical, which is not a great combination. If something is dumb, at least I want it to be exciting and coherent. This show does way too many puzzling things without any pay-off in cool factor.

I just want more scenes of Poldarkesque scenery porn with Galadriel smiling like she's on Quaaludes, but instead I get scenes where the show seems to go out of its way to make everything feel small.. 

Hope the quality will veer upwards in the last three episodes, but I'm not optimistic. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, RumHam said:

Yeah, that about sums it up. I have seen The Faculty but not in years I should revisit that too.

It's a good deal of fun. Speaking of which, I think the season calls for some The Craft with a side of Heathers. 

[Isis]

11 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I'm just watching first episode. I find watching pizza being made so therapeutic.

Also his wife is so beautiful that he must be able to make some insane pizza. 

Yeah. She was certainly a fine young specimen. 

We started watching Nightflyers last night. Interesting start. Honestly cannot remember if I've read the novella or not. Even if I have, I have no recollection of it. It was giving me big Solaris vibes. Maybe even Event Horizon. Two eps in and I'm very much in the wtf is happening zone. 

 

[RhaenysBee]

Lost is getting a bit weird, but some character journeys are so relatable and close to my heart that I don’t mind the plot problems and the general issues with the development of the story.

At this point I just want to hug half the characters and rock them in my arms till they feel better. Sayid, Hurley, Locke, Sawyer, Jack in this particular order. And I want Eko to hug me and rock me till I feel better. He was probably my most favorite character of season 2. 

Spoiler

What irks me is HOW are they surprised that the island is/was a psychological experiment at this point? It may have been a surprise when they opened the hatch, but at this point it’s so blatantly obvious that I don’t see how some of the characters didn’t discuss it. Not the ones drive by faith in fate, but ones driven by reason and/or equipped with experience that would make it obvious to them. How did this conversation about the possibility at least never happen between Jack, Libby, Sayid? 

Also, Charlie is kinda mean…? Based on the flashbacks, pettiness isn’t a core character trait and he seems to be handling his addiction as of right now, so context please? Why is he being randomly mean to random people? Is this some sort overcompensation of an inferiority complex? Can we spend more time with him and address it please? 

 

[Veltigar]

Breaking the rules of this thread once again to say that I watched and enjoyed the latest episode of House of the Dragon. Definitely not my favorite episode so far, but a lot better than last week's comparatively poor outing (although even that little bit of a false note was still a pretty good episode of TV all things considered) and that with a much heavier burden to lift than anything before.

I think they did as well as expected introducing all these new actors into the fray, although the logic behind the decision to keep certain actors around was sometimes a little bit difficult (Ser Criston Cole being the major one). This was basically a new pilot and a lot of the more casual fans I watched this with definitely struggled making sense of all the children.

Still, even they enjoyed it greatly and I will say that I am still impressed by the much more mature storytelling this show has in comparison to GoT. I don't think any woman got naked this week and there was a great emphasis on the realities of child birth which I found rather stunning (both in terms of inclusion and in the way this was used as character development)

Spoiler

Rhaenyra leaving a trail of blood after leaving her audience with the Queen was incredibly badass

I think so far the writers and cast have done a remarkable job coloring in the edges around GRRM's writing

Spoiler

I was a bit puzzled by the meagre use of Breakbones in previous episodes (I was actually thinking they might leave him out of the picture entirely) and while he didn't have a great amount of screen time in this episode before his faithful trip, I feel like actor and writing actually really nailed that character. He was such a non-entity in the book, but here I was rather taken by him.

 There are a few decisions I found questionable. My least favorite part of the episode was probably

Spoiler

Daemon's storyline (with Matt Smith for once not being MVP of the episode). The contrast they were drawing between Daemon and Viserys on the day of their wife's labor fell flat on its back for me. Daemon should have asked Laena what her wishes were on the caesarian and if she was not capable, he should actually have made the call to safe the child. After all, the male midwife makes it quite clear that there is no hope for her. Either the child dies with her or they take the chances of a caesarian and the child might survive.

The death through fire was also rather dull. I would have preferred her getting the last flight she didn't get in the books and then plunging to earth or something like that over being burnt to a crisp.

I am also not entirely sure about 

Spoiler

their plans with Shakespeare's Richard III or as they call him in this world, Larys Clubfoot. I feel like we needed a bit more build up for his relationship with the Queen. He's obviously completely in her thrall (the flower scene was incredibly creepy), but the evil cripple trope will hopefully be handled with some elegance and class as this further develops.

 

[Raja]

Thought that was one of the weakest episodes of HOTD. Lots of spectacle, but not enough ground work laid for a lot of the scenes to have the impact that they *should* have.

[briantw]

18 minutes ago, Raja said:

Thought that was one of the weakest episodes of HOTD. Lots of spectacle, but not enough ground work laid for a lot of the scenes to have the impact that they *should* have.

I think the show is going to improve significantly once they're no longer doing these massive time skips between episodes.  I understand why it may have been necessary to do the show this way to adequately plant the seeds for later conflicts, but it comes off a little rough in practice.

I assume that, come season two, it'll be a more straightforward story from a timeline perspective.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

  Hide contents

Spoiler

their plans with Shakespeare's Richard III or as they call him in this world, Larys Clubfoot. I feel like we needed a bit more build up for his relationship with the Queen. He's obviously completely in her thrall (the flower scene was incredibly creepy), but the evil cripple trope will hopefully be handled with some elegance and class as this further develops.

 

 

Spoiler

Larys is John Malkovich being Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, the infamous 'turd in a silk stocking',  as played by him in 2002 Napoleon.

 

[dbunting]

I think I enjoyed this episode of House Dragon almost as much as any other. They have used these episodes to get viewers to take sides

Spoiler

Do you side with the virtuous Queen or the devil be damned Princess. I liked her offer of marriage at the small council as it put things into perspective. She knows her father will not command that the marriage happens and she knows nothing good can come of her and her family staying there.

And Daemon

Spoiler

We are to assume he fathered the children and is not impotent he just couldn't perform with those others and he seemed to truly care for his wife, nice to see this side of him. Now we can expect him to let loose since she is gone and won't be talking sense into him.

Looking forward to the rest of the series now that the groundwork has been laid.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Giving Foundation a rewatch. 

First rate production values. Great cast. I love the "genetic dynasty" concept. 

[Veltigar]

8 hours ago, briantw said:

I think the show is going to improve significantly once they're no longer doing these massive time skips between episodes.  I understand why it may have been necessary to do the show this way to adequately plant the seeds for later conflicts, but it comes off a little rough in practice.

I assume that, come season two, it'll be a more straightforward story from a timeline perspective.

Yeah definitely agree here. The time jumps are a bit of a liability. That being said, I really do think the show is handling them about as well as can possible be expected. There are a few faux-pas here and there, but it's a superbly difficult thing to pull off. I see that @Raja for instance has difficulties with it and I totally understand that, but I don't see anything big that I would have done otherwise to make it work even better.

Seeing it play out on screen, I not only have a lot of respect for the writing team, but I also appreciate HBO's decision to greenlit a show like this. Not sure which ideas were all on the table, but there were bound to be easier options to do on the adaptation front.

I wonder whether season 3 will be (show & book spoilers):

Spoiler

:The aftermath of the DoD with Aegon III, Cregan Stark and all the other regents? Or whether they'll just smear out all the fighting over season two.

 

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

I think I enjoyed this episode of House Dragon almost as much as any other. They have used these episodes to get viewers to take sides

I think my least favourite episode so far was the fifth one. This sort of ties with the second one for the second least favorite episode, but apart from the 5th one I think they have all been quite strong. Remarkable really since this was all comparatively meek stuff in comparison with all that will follow.

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

They have used these episodes to get viewers to take sides

  Hide contents

Do you side with the virtuous Queen or the devil be damned Princess. I liked her offer of marriage at the small council as it put things into perspective. She knows her father will not command that the marriage happens and she knows nothing good can come of her and her family staying there.

I would be very curious to see how effective they have been at this. On my side of things, I think every casual I watch this with is (show and book spoilers as well):

Spoiler

Sympathetic to Rhaenyra and that is before Daemon has joined her, who I think is by far the most well-liked character on the show (although there are a lot of Viserys fans as well due to the excellent work of Paddy).

I feel like they did their best to humanize the greens to an extent in the earlier episodes. Something I definitely feel supportive off, although as I complained earlier, they were sometimes trying to force our sympathies as viewers a bit too much. I feel it is imminently clear that their position is not only indefensible in our modern eyes but also quite selfish in the confines of their own world with Viserys II coming out so forcefully on Rhaenyra's side.

I think this episode the show rather gingerly left that phase of its build up and is going to abandon pretending that the Greens have a leg to stand on. After all, on the green side, we have an increasingly shrewish Queen (who will no doubt be rendered more sympathetic because Larys will Richard III style prey on here as soon as the King is dead), an incredibly well-cast Aegon (he just looks like an annoying fop to the T. He could be a teenage Boris Johnson if they even need one) whose closest comparison for casual viewers will probably be to King Joffrey, an increasingly douchy Criston Cole and the psychopatic Larys Strong (who not just kills his father and older brother, but also probably the two most sympathetic characters of the show so far. Lord Strong is the most honorable character in the current cast and the few scenes that Harwyn had showed him as a caring father and partner).

I feel like if viewers take sides it won't be because of their loyalty to a distinct cause, but more due to the personalities and actors. I find the new actress who plays Allicent quite attractive for instance and while she is clearly in the wrong, they'll probably have her suffer under Larys to wring our sympathies. That will probably be contrasted with the less attractive new Rhaenyra who is in the right but who is going to increasingly descend into petty actions (e.g. the way she forced Laenor to stay in KL in the beginning. She made up for that later one, but I expect that if they follow the books she'll increasingly stop correcting her missteps).

I'm looking forward to all the people arguing that the Greens are right (but who actually should say, Queen Alicent is fine and that's okay for me) and Rhaenyra's party is wrong. 

 

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

 

And Daemon

  Hide contents

We are to assume he fathered the children and is not impotent he just couldn't perform with those others and he seemed to truly care for his wife, nice to see this side of him. Now we can expect him to let loose since she is gone and won't be talking sense into him.

 

This puzzles me tremendously

Spoiler

I never got the physical impotence in those earlier scenes, but I know it was pointed out in the behind the episodes featurette. I thought they were going to run with that, but the fact that he know has two children who very clearly seem to be his, sort of muddle the waters.

I guess we are to assume that Daemon was psychologically blocked due to his marriage with Rhea (who knows what happened there during the wedding) and that he liberated himself by murdering her. It's quite an icky thought, but that's the only thing I see that explains what the writers are trying to set up.

I think it's just easier to ignore the impotence hints and just say that he didn't follow through with Rhaenyra because he cared for her and didn't want to put her into a bad position.

 

7 hours ago, Zorral said:

 

  Hide contents

Larys is John Malkovich being Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, the infamous 'turd in a silk stocking',  as played by him in 2002 Napoleon.

 

Haven't seen it, but whoever is the inspiration 

Spoiler

It's quite a noxious trope (evil cripple) so I wonder how the end-product will feel.

 

[Ran]

@briantw

Ryan Condal was just out in an interview acknowledging there'll be much less time jumping in further seasons.

@Veltigar

I believe their 3-4 year plan is to end the show with the end of the Dance. Maybe The Hour of the Wolf feeds into that, but I do not expect much of the Regency to feature.

[IFR]

47 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Seeing it play out on screen, I not only have a lot of respect for the writing team, but I also appreciate HBO's decision to greenlit a show like this. Not sure which ideas were all on the table, but there were bound to be easier options to do on the adaptation front.

Yeah, I'm enjoying the show greatly (a few questionable writing decisions aside), and am glad that HBO is trying something quite different than Game of Thrones, which is not conventional when doing a spinoff.

Most spinoffs are rehashes that try to restore the same formula of the original and count on the audience's nostalgia to carry it forward. Hot D is going another route, and I appreciate that.

It perhaps helps that I know where everything is headed, and have seen all the drama that has transpired so far to be a necessary foundation to deepen the impact of the craziness that will occur down the line. I think that while this first season is viewed by many as somewhat awkward as its own thing, viewed holistically as part of the overall series it will work very well.

But I see online and know people personally who are not pleased with how this series is structured thus far, particularly with the latest time jump and the change of cast.

It is my hope that by the season finale when things will finally shape a clear direction for the show (and certainly by season two when the show should be full bore), the skeptics will be won over and appreciate what this series is going for.