House of the Dragon Renewed for a 2nd Season

[C.T. Phipps]

2 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

They could of had Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar dabble is some occult magic, also just focus on the families obsession with resurrecting magical elements. Anyways the 'magical' elements (the dragons) in this show don't work. 

The dragons in this show don't work because they are generic set dressing that distract from the plot. The reason why people loved the GOT dragons is because: 

1. The world was distinctly none-magical so having a character with dragons people don't believe in added to suspense for when these beast would upend the war in Westeros by completely tipping the balance one way and ruining all the machinations of the characters we love to hate. It was a hilarious supposition that while watching Baelish, Tywin, the Freys, the Boltons, etc. kill all the characters we are rooting for because they were better 'players' to get their componence. This also includes the threat of the white walkers. 

2. They were Dany's dragons alone and people wanted to believe in her dreams of a better world and how she could really do the impossible and move mountains. This was before people had figured out the destruction of the slavers wasn't a sign of her idealistic morals but a simplistic moral conflict to hide her evilness from view.    

Now everyone has dragons and they are utilized in the most utilitarian ways. They aren't signs of magic in a none magic world, nor do they signify some spiritual power greater than the petty machinations of men. They are tools to set bonfires, modes of transportation, and perform other mundane tasks in a completely integrated way with the rest of society. 

And people who don't care about fantasy don't care about that. It's funny when Martin says the story isn't about the dragons but the personal conflicts, which makes me wonder what is the point of having them at all? If they symbolize nothing and are just practical weapons, all they do is detract from the pseudo-realism and make the world feel less grounded thereby detracting from their claims that the brutality being historically accurate. 

My wife is a lifelong dragon fan and squees with utter joy whenever the House of the Dragon critters are on screen.

So there's also another option you're missing.

The dragons are there because, like dinosaurs, some people just really ****ing love them.

[butterweedstrover]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

My wife is a lifelong dragon fan and squees with utter joy whenever the House of the Dragon critters are on screen.

So there's also another option you're missing.

The dragons are there because, like dinosaurs, some people just really ****ing love them.

How big is that number? I was under the impression the mainstream audience hates fantasy stuff.

[C.T. Phipps]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

How big is that number? I was under the impression the mainstream audience hates fantasy stuff.

I mean LOTOR and Game of Thrones has shown that was complete bullshit.

And always was.

Hell, it ignores Disney's 100 year reign over half of the population of the world and superheroes and Star Wars that they also own now.

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean LOTOR and Game of Thrones has shown that was complete bullshit.

And always was.

Hell, it ignores Disney's 100 year reign over half of the population of the world and superheroes and Star Wars that they also own now.

I guess you’re right (and evidently so since the show is doing so well). 
 

Still don’t care for the narrative implications 

[The Bard of Banefort]

I don’t think a lack of dragons would hurt a potential spin-off. Consider just how much people love the Lannisters who, in the show at least, are completely non-magical. It all depends on how compelling the characters are.

[C.T. Phipps]

6 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

I guess you’re right (and evidently so since the show is doing so well).

Still don’t care for the narrative implications 

Reminds me of a quote in R/Fantasy I made.

A person asked, "I don't get it, why was Dragonrdiers of Pern so popular?"

My answer was, "Because it has people riding dragons."

[Lord Varys]

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t think we’re going to get any actual romantic scenes between them, just some vibes (that’ll presumably disappear when Alicent marries Viserys).

  Reveal hidden contents

It doesn’t sound like Rhaenyra and Laena interact at all.

I think the show completely shuts down any 'lesbian undertones' between Rhaenyra and Alicent when Alicent makes it very clear she is not going to ride Syrax with Rhaenyra. After all, the folks who were allowed to ride Dreamfyre with Rhaena all seems to have gotten into her pants one way or another (possibly even poor Androw).

Rhaenyra saying she would really like to ride with Alicent could be a sign that she has deeper feelings for ... but Alicent doesn't share those.

[C.T. Phipps]

29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think the show completely shuts down any 'lesbian undertones' between Rhaenyra and Alicent when Alicent makes it very clear she is not going to ride Syrax with Rhaenyra. After all, the folks who were allowed to ride Dreamfyre with Rhaena all seems to have gotten into her pants one way or another (possibly even poor Androw).

Rhaenyra saying she would really like to ride with Alicent could be a sign that she has deeper feelings for ... but Alicent doesn't share those.

I mean, it could just be she's terrified of riding a dragon.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I don’t think Rhaenyra was ever interested in women. The Rhaenyra/Laena shipping just seemed more like wishful thinking on fans’ part.

[C.T. Phipps]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t think Rhaenyra was ever interested in women. The Rhaenyra/Laena shipping just seemed more like wishful thinking on fans’ part.

Eh, you can go both ways. Martin always seemed somewhat iffy with that, though.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Eh, you can go both ways. Martin always seemed somewhat iffy with that, though.

For what it’s worth, there are still people in denial that Rhaenyra’s sons were Harwin’s. Some people really took the whole “unreliable narrator” thing to new levels.

[C.T. Phipps]

3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

For what it’s worth, there are still people in denial that Rhaenyra’s sons were Harwin’s. Some people really took the whole “unreliable narrator” thing to new levels.

I mean they could be. Its unlikely but not impossible.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

4 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean they could be. Its unlikely but not impossible.

You don't believe they're Harwin's?

[C.T. Phipps]

14 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

You don't believe they're Harwin's?

I believe there's substantial circumstantial evidence but it's not 100% proven either. Which I think is the important thing to note.

The people who forwarded the idea had a very vested set of reasons to do so.

[Unloyal Bannermen]

5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t think a lack of dragons would hurt a potential spin-off. Consider just how much people love the Lannisters who, in the show at least, are completely non-magical. It all depends on how compelling the characters are.

Yeh agree. Never got the impression that people really wanted those Bran scenes compared to Kings' landing stuff. The plotting, twists, shocks always seemed (from what I saw) to be the main interest draws from the show.  

I think what made dragons popular in a sense is that were part of the storyline of one of the most popular characters on the show, rather than their mere existence being why they were so liked (though I am sure there are people who do just like dragons) 

20 Million really is a great number, saw a graph somewhere that compared it to some of the disney plus shows and the difference is gigantic, albeit the first episode I doubt HBO could have hoped for much more (as IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes seem quite positive as well)

[Unloyal Bannermen]

3 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I believe there's substantial circumstantial evidence but it's not 100% proven either. Which I think is the important thing to note.

It's gonna be fun to see whether the show-runners change something entirely and use the "it's a history book it could be bullshit" excuse to justify it at a comic-con or something

[The Bard of Banefort]

I’ve heard mixed things about when they’ll start filming S2. Some people say in a few months, others not until next spring. 

Either way, I wouldn’t expect the next season—or any live action spin-off—until 2024.

[Ran]

42 minutes ago, Unloyal Bannermen said:

 

20 Million really is a great number, saw a graph somewhere that compared it to some of the disney plus shows and the difference is gigantic

Haven't found the graph, but jeez, yeah. It's believed Loki had a 2.5 million household viewership, and allegedly Obi-wan had a bit more. Call it 3 million? That's a quarter and less than a third of the HotD premiere.. and, most notably, those are 5 day window measurements vs. the single-day result of the HotD premiere.

I'm less shocked by how well House of the Dragon did, though, than by how few people actually watch these Disney+ MCU and Star Wars shows. I was sure they were pulling stronger numbers than that.

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t think Rhaenyra was ever interested in women. The Rhaenyra/Laena shipping just seemed more like wishful thinking on fans’ part.

The line 'more than fond' is usually used to indicate romantic love.

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

For what it’s worth, there are still people in denial that Rhaenyra’s sons were Harwin’s. Some people really took the whole “unreliable narrator” thing to new levels.

The point there is that the book doesn't nail it down. Trying to pretend we know for sure who was the father is something we cannot do - especially since we have no Harwin description. It is certainly more likely that Harwin is the father than Laenor, but it is not confirmed. Just as Eustace's take on Rhaenyra-Criston is much more likely to be true than Mushroom's ... although here we shouldn't forget that we just have two detailed versions of something that could have happened completely differently. It was a secret thing going on behind closed doors.

Ditto with the murder mysteries.

[C.T. Phipps]

Yeah, these numbers are "Game of Thrones/House of The Dragon is a cultural phenomenon."