Dating Thread: Total Eclipse of the Heart edition

[Tywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I always think “I’m going to take MONTHS off of dating!!!” after a breakup, which reliably turns into….a few days. You are strong!!

I think we can conclude then that side boob does indeed have a tractor beam effect. 

[Toth]

18 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Toth - “who in their right mind would date a guy this old” you say, and you’re not even 30

I’ve come to the conclusion that age is really just a number. Since every minute of the day, the sand goes through the hourglass, never to return again, we are all “running out of time”

My advice to you would be to keep on trying to make friends and build some relationships that don’t involve romance. It might be lower stakes and less stressful.

Hey, I wasn't only moaning my age, but my age combined with my lack of normal people experiences!^^

I know it's probably just my anxiety fueled by fear of how people judge me, but another forum with a "Lovesickness" thread years ago I stumbled across women writing how they would never want to be someone's first relationship for how that would put unreasonable pressure on them. And in another forum with a dating thread similar to this one was someone I got acquainted with mentioning how one of her worst dates ever was with a guy mentioning he still lives with his parents. In all instances it was about people younger than me.

Or let's take a scene from my one non-date with the bored Chinese Master student two years ago that I recapped here. After she said she wasn't searching for any kind of relationship and I said I didn't expect anything else from how she was writing and would love to gain a friend, she seemed taken aback and asked me "out of curiosity" about my previous dating history. When I said truthfully that I had none and then semi-truthfully explained I was too focused on studying, she seemed even more startled and her first reflex was to say that... I "should date other girls before coming back to be friends". Which... I suspect meant that she was worried I was only taking that "revelation" of her not being interested so well because I had secret hopes or something.

So from all that stuff I have taken awayf that the older I get, the more unattractive my cluelessness becomes and will just be perceived as one giant glowing red flag for anyone who doesn't want to deal with the hassle that comes with me.

Concluding: Yeah, you are right, I should focus on getting out more and not care about that sort of relationships. I was just venting my frustration about how I can't make that voice in my head shut up that I'm somehow missing out on something that 'everyone' else regards as natural to life.

[Madame deVenoge]

@Toth - EVERYONE has what some people consider to be red flags.

Look at me - I’ve been divorced twice and then had a four-year relationship that I left because dude was cheating (in an open relationship)! I can’t hang on to a relationship, clearly!!

Look at The Doctor - 54 years old and never been married, with only one serious relationship to his name (which lasted for only three years), and a secret illegitimate child. Screaming red flags right there to most women 

All you have to say when asked about prior relationships is that you’ve been focused on your studies and that you “haven’t been seriously involved with anyone” because of that and family obligations, but that you are now open to a relationship (if you are).

There’s nothing “natural” about “what everyone else thinks” (I’m assuming in the Western, large, industrialized world) about relationships and how they work. After all, if you were in a conservative village in India, your mother and an “auntie” would have a spouse arranged for you. 

[Liffguard]

1 hour ago, Toth said:

Hey, I wasn't only moaning my age, but my age combined with my lack of normal people experiences!^^

I didn't start dating at all until I was 28. When I did start dating I fucked up a lot, got myself hurt, hurt a few people, but have also met some very cool people, had some fun, and am currently dating someone awesome. It might work out, it might not, same as all relationships. The point is, despite having a later than average start, I'm ultimately no more of a dating fuck-up than anyone else (which is to say I'm a total dating fuck-up, same as everybody else). I doubt you will be either.

 

[Madame deVenoge]

18 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

I didn't start dating at all until I was 28. When I did start dating I fucked up a lot, got myself hurt, hurt a few people, but have also met some very cool people, had some fun, and am currently dating someone awesome. It might work out, it might not, same as all relationships. The point is, despite having a later than average start, **I'm ultimately no more of a dating fuck-up than anyone else (which is to say I'm a total dating fuck-up, same as everybody else).** (emphasis mine) I doubt you will be either.

 

I think my son, who is 25, has not really seriously dated anyone. Of course, I really have NO IDEA, since I only asked him once, maybe when he was 22, if he was happy or wanted a relationship….and I was drunk, which was the only way I had the courage to ask. I got instantly shot down, and never ventured to discuss the matter again. He lives with me, since he’s in grad school and has no job sufficient to pay rent, much less student loans.

I assume he must be attracted to women, since I don’t think a gay guy would ever think of getting a vasectomy. The only reason I know he’s had a vasectomy is because I had to drive him to and from the appointment 

Oh, Toth - you know what? Your life could be worse…you could be my kid  Imagine your whole high school and college life of your male friends telling you that your mom is hot and trying to “friend” her on Facebook. And worse, your college female friends seeing a picture (of your mom) and asking “is she an escort?” (I really did contemplate eviscerating that one c**t who asked him that question). 

I’ve told him that I will leave the house any time he wants to bring someone over, but he has stated that he could never, ever do that. Because the house is expensive and professionally decorated and he could never get away with pretending that he lives with a roommate.

Just know that you are not alone.

[Toth]

16 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Oh, Toth - you know what? Your life could be worse…you could be my kid  Imagine your whole high school and college life of your male friends telling you that your mom is hot and trying to “friend” her on Facebook. And worse, your college female friends seeing a picture (of your mom) and asking “is she an escort?” (I really did contemplate eviscerating that one c**t who asked him that question). 

... well, during my own school time, the reactions when classmates met my parents were more along "With his parents looking so good, why does he look like he does?" Which was a sentence I did indeed hear several times. So I think I'm in a vaguely worse position actually. Not to mention that during university time I developed a lot of anxiety hiding the fact that my mother lives with me and dodging every private discussion about home situations... while at the same time my mother had a bad case of "I WANT GRANDKIDS, NOW!" syndrome and interrogated me about their looks and my intentions whenever I let slip I talked with a female fellow student, so I was forced to relay stories as gender neutrally as possible because I found it extremely annoying in the face of me having no intentions and everyone already being in relationships anyway.

So... very cool of you to keep out of his life that much!

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

There’s nothing “natural” about “what everyone else thinks” (I’m assuming in the Western, large, industrialized world) about relationships and how they work. After all, if you were in a conservative village in India, your mother and an “auntie” would have a spouse arranged for you. 

Yeah, I guess so. Though with online dating being the only environment to meet people who are actually looking for partners and wouldn't regard me as an intrusive creep for doing the same and that world being ALL about getting judged and easily dismissed, it's just... well, that way of dating that I shouldn't even try in order to preserve what little self-worth I have.

1 hour ago, Liffguard said:

I didn't start dating at all until I was 28. When I did start dating I fucked up a lot, got myself hurt, hurt a few people, but have also met some very cool people, had some fun, and am currently dating someone awesome. It might work out, it might not, same as all relationships. The point is, despite having a later than average start, I'm ultimately no more of a dating fuck-up than anyone else (which is to say I'm a total dating fuck-up, same as everybody else). I doubt you will be either.

Thanks for the honesty... mmh... well, maybe in 30 years I can try or so...

[Tywin et al.]

53 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Oh, Toth - you know what? Your life could be worse…you could be my kid  Imagine your whole high school and college life of your male friends telling you that your mom is hot and trying to “friend” her on Facebook. And worse, your college female friends seeing a picture (of your mom) and asking “is she an escort?” (I really did contemplate eviscerating that one c**t who asked him that question). 

Clearly I'm flying ahead of the field!

But jokes aside, everyone has their own timeline. My older family members don't exactly like that at 34 I've never been married or had kids, although I have been engaged once and as I've joked before, may very well have one. Such is life. 

 

Also, I had to live with the hot mom thing too, but to be fair, it's not like she was bringing home a lot of dudes (and chicks). 

[Madame deVenoge]

47 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Clearly I'm flying ahead of the field!

But jokes aside, everyone has their own timeline. My older family members don't exactly like that at 34 I've never been married or had kids, although I have been engaged once and as I've joked before, may very well have one. Such is life. /cdn-cgi/mirage/237628817e7b0b0b27e1b1993d04e5ab16ad0ce399ab636dfdd21b47ec45a56e/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_dunno.gif

 

Also, I had to live with the hot mom thing too, but to be fair, it's not like she was bringing home a lot of dudes (and chicks). 

Hey, my kid has NEVER had to experience me “bringing someone home”….serious partners only, so after Ex 2, three people in ten years.

Also, I remind you that you we have a marriage pact if I’m still no married by 50, so get that prenup drafted.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I assume he must be attracted to women, since I don’t think a gay guy would ever think of getting a vasectomy. The only reason I know he’s had a vasectomy is because I had to drive him to and from the appointment 

 

Are you 100% sure, this is not down to the failing American school system?

3 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Oh, Toth - you know what? Your life could be worse…you could be my kid  Imagine your whole high school and college life of your male friends telling you that your mom is hot and trying to “friend” her on Facebook. And worse, your college female friends seeing a picture (of your mom) and asking “is she an escort?” (I really did contemplate eviscerating that one c**t who asked him that question). 

 

Reminds me of a time back in 2000, I think. Long story short, you can't possibly compete with Ty's mum, Jennifer Coolidge.

 

 

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Also, I remind you that you we have a marriage pact if I’m still no married by 50, so get that prenup drafted.

You just turned 28. I've got nothing but time. 

[BigFatCoward]

@Toth i was single from 24 - 34, then I met my wife and settled down and had 2 kids and bought houses and shit together. 

There is no normal trajectory, though I will say from having read your posts, putting yourself out there and having fun and fucking loads of people and having messy break ups and then awesome reconciliations is probably more what you need, rather than a committed relationship straight away. 

I've only had 2 proper relationships, one was the girl next door to me at uni, and my wife who I met in a houseshare, I'm particularly lazy it appears. 

[Toth]

11 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

There is no normal trajectory, though I will say from having read your posts, putting yourself out there and having fun and fucking loads of people and having messy break ups and then awesome reconciliations is probably more what you need, rather than a committed relationship straight away. 

... eh, I don't think that's possible or a good idea to aim for. From my posts you should have also gathered that I'm not in any way outgoing or capable of making any hearts flutter and have also severe reservations about touching people. So committing to a relationship to me is in a large part about finding someone I could trust and who would be willing to put up with me, because putting up with me I imagine is for its own sake not at all fun in any way.

What you decry as 'lazy' I actually find extremely laudable.

[Madame deVenoge]

6 hours ago, Toth said:

... eh, I don't think that's possible or a good idea to aim for. From my posts you should have also gathered that I'm not in any way outgoing or capable of making any hearts flutter and have also severe reservations about touching people. So committing to a relationship to me is in a large part about finding someone I could trust and who would be willing to put up with me, because putting up with me I imagine is for its own sake not at all fun in any way.

What you decry as 'lazy' I actually find extremely laudable.

Touch. Everyone is different. What you might want to consider is indeed the whole touching thing. What are your limits? What makes you feel comfortable vs not? Explore this, I encourage you, just thinking about what your comfort level is.

My thoughts -

1. I, personally, do not enjoy Public Displays of Affection, but for me, it’s a different story in private.

   1A. There are a lot of guys out there who “don’t like to be touched” by random-ish people. I found this out when signing up for a corporate chair massage thing once. “I only let my wife touch me” I heard. Ok - literally, different strokes for different folks!!

2. The Doctor is NOT touch-friendly, even in private. He is not a couch snuggler or even a sleep snuggler. He only touches when it’s sex time. Definitely not a guy who enjoys a massage….and I grew up giving hand, feet, back, and head massages to family members because apparently, I’m really good at it and should have studied to have been a massage therapist. 

3. We have compromised in that I (generally) get a two-minute snuggle before we go to sleep and we snuggle after sex. This was unstated for the most part, yet a matter of negotiation nonetheless.

This works for me, it works for him….and I get regular massages to fulfill my high-touch needs for hands-on connection. My regular massages generally involve me getting truly beaten up by a small Korean lady at the Korean spa, which also means I’m a complete masochist. Again, literally - different strokes for different folks!

You might want to consider for yourself, what are your boundaries and limits? Do you feel comfortable with those boundaries and limits? Do you want to potentially explore, or are you very set with your exact feelings?

There are no wrong answers. 

The only thing is that YOU have to be comfortable with is YOUR feelings on the matter, and having a bit of a plan for if you connect with someone who is higher-touch than you are…you would need to be comfortable with how they get their touch on. 

Obviously, in my example, The Doctor and I have compromised. If he refused to cuddle after sex or if he hated the thought of me at the Korean spa, we might have issues. 

If he refused to cuddle after sex, we would have serious issues. If he didn’t like me going to the Korean spa and wanted me to go to an expensive spa, that would be a negotiation point on “if you want me to go anywhere else, you can pay for it.”

Much of life is negotiation. Always.

[Toth]

3 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Touch. Everyone is different. What you might want to consider is indeed the whole touching thing. What are your limits? What makes you feel comfortable vs not? Explore this, I encourage you, just thinking about what your comfort level is.

Mmh... I... really don't know how much of my touch aversiveness is what I was born with or a result of bad experiences and that's why I feel like thinking about it on my own without having a person I would want to figure things out with is pointless. Right now my limit is 'everything'. Kisses to the cheek I only ever received from old aunts at family gatherings when I was little and found it always a horribly intrusive chore I was forced to endure.

Similarly hugs. The only thing I know them from is being forced to give one to my mother every year to her birthday, with her always being extremely upset if I let show my discomfort. Maybe because of this... Well, I remember a stupid scene during university when I was hanging out with a tightly-knit group I got acquainted with as a social ghost like usual and then the girlfriend of one of them came to the table, hugging each one as a greeting and then looked at me contemplating whether she should give me one as well. I insisted that there was no need, which... she somehow interpreted as an attack and complained whether I find her icky and insisted on giving it at one point. When I said goodbye she insisted on now doing it and forced it upon me and I recoiled so badly I dropped my bag. Similarly with the Chinese student non-date. She also offered a hug when greeting and when saying goodbye and both times I instinctively shrunk back and refused, stating Corona concerns to save face. However when analyzing my thought process during both instances, I was overwhelmed with the thought that I didn't want either of them to feel forced to touch me out of obligation and that's why I denied it, even though both times the response was confusion. So basically I need to learn what you are saying that everyone is different and make myself belief that they wouldn't only touch me out of societal pressure. Because right now, my mind tells me nobody would want to do that otherwise and I'm making them more comfortable by refusing them to act out of obligation.

Meanwhile the only memory of touching hands was during trust exercises in theater class where I found other people's hands sticky and sweaty and was always glad when it was over and I could rub the ickiness away.

Edited January 18 by Toth

[3CityApache]

3 hours ago, Toth said:

Meanwhile the only memory of touching hands was during trust exercises in theater class where I found other people's hands sticky and sweaty and was always glad when it was over and I could rub the ickiness away.

You never shake hands with collegues at work or family meetings at all? What about when you are formally introduced to someone?

[Toth]

11 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

You never shake hands with collegues at work or family meetings at all? What about when you are formally introduced to someone?

There are no family meetings anymore, I don't think I ever had to shake hands with colleagues and I can't remember ever getting introduced to someone. I suppose shaking hands I do if I have to, but it falls into the "uneasy obligation" category as well.

[Mowgli]

1 hour ago, 3CityApache said:

 What about when you are formally introduced to someone?

 

[Toth]

I think I stumbled across a good example of the thought processes in my mind that are causing probably needless hesitation.

A while ago I signed up on a cosplay Discord, hoping to be able to network some more as I started that hobby last year, so hoping maybe I don't have to go to conventions all alone. The channel is divided into states and unfortunately most of the active users are from the south and form a fairly tight-knit group with lots of in-jokes that leave me startled. I only had one conversation with one admin from my city right at the beginning, but then nothing. That changed last week when a new user signed up and introduced herself. I took the opportunity to react celebratory. The admin and another guy then joined and admitted that they live just outside... just like myself I admitted to them (affordable housing is a myth after all), then the new user said she doesn't know whether inside or outside and we then had a little exchange where I tried to wring the answer out of her, but in the end gave up and left it a mystery. We had a bit more of an exchange about the hobby and how to keep creativity up, but then she asked into the group whether we come to what appears to be a monthly geek meetup at a youth center with workshops, card games and D&D. Well... technically D&D is another thing on my list of things I still want to try, but looking through the pictures on their home page, the core audience seems to be small children. Mostly. Probably. Which is why I'm thinking I would feel drastically out of place.

However I then briefly caught myself contemplating still at least checking it out... even though I'm so unsure of the location... and that is because she, as a presumably attractive woman (at least judging by her heavily edited professional photos) of my age invited as she's doing a workshop there. So I actually caught myself considering to check it out to see what she is like, which in return made this whole consideration feel pathetic, creepy and foolish and I have because of that shame completely retreated from the thread and couldn't make myself form any kind of reply in the last three days, not even to the other conversation.

[Maithanet]

I remember having a lot of trouble with feeling like I was being a creepy scuzzball whenever I was flirting with/interested in girls at parties.  Which of course, made me more self conscious and awkward and actually did serve to make me come across as a little creepy (although when I solicited feedback from friends about this, they usually said it was more just shy and maybe douchey).  It took time to basically learn to get over myself, because showing interest in another person is not douchey or creepy at all. 

But even with that experience under my belt, I have trouble seeing how anything you have done is "pathetic, creepy and foolish" (your words).  She was interested to know if anyone attends a particular meetup, so that you could potentially interact and talk about shared interests (cosplay + D&D).  You do indeed share those interests and live nearby.  I understand that meeting strangers can easily be intimidating, but this sounds like a really good venue to make it easier.  This is not pathetic or creepy, that is in fact incredibly normal behavior. 

[Madame deVenoge]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I remember having a lot of trouble with feeling like I was being a creepy scuzzball whenever I was flirting with/interested in girls at parties.  Which of course, made me more self conscious and awkward and actually did serve to make me come across as a little creepy (although when I solicited feedback from friends about this, they usually said it was more just shy and maybe douchey).  It took time to basically learn to get over myself, because showing interest in another person is not douchey or creepy at all. 

But even with that experience under my belt, I have trouble seeing how anything you have done is "pathetic, creepy and foolish" (your words).  She was interested to know if anyone attends a particular meetup, so that you could potentially interact and talk about shared interests (cosplay + D&D).  You do indeed share those interests and live nearby.  I understand that meeting strangers can easily be intimidating, but this sounds like a really good venue to make it easier.  This is not pathetic or creepy, that is in fact incredibly normal behavior. 

Amen, and if you are creepy, trust me, she will shoot you down fast, @Toth.