Dating Thread: Total Eclipse of the Heart edition

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Amen, and if you are creepy, trust me, she will shoot you down fast, @Toth. 

Not sure that's 100% helpful. 

@Toth, I will tell you this again as someone who likes you, you need to take a deep breath and stop being so hard on yourself. Just start there. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

One thing I will say is that one thinks about oneself more than anyone else thinks about oneself (in general), so a lot of things you might experience as deeply embarrassing or whatever, everyone else around you doesn’t even notice.  It’s actually quite humbling.  

I like to think of that cheesy but wonderful Garth Brooks song The Dance.  Love has its painful and hard moments and it doesn’t always work out, but you know, Shakespeare and better to have loved and all… 

Wishing you the best of luck.

[DMC]

I agree with everyone else that you can often overthink things.  If you're that worried about being creepy, it is incredibly likely that you are, in fact, not being creepy.  Kinda like that old line about being crazy - crazy people don't think they're crazy.  

But yeah, to reemphasize I'd say the main thing is just not to get in your head so much.  This happens to us all, and not just in romantic situations. 

I started teaching again face-to-face these past couple of weeks for the first time since covid.  I've definitely gotten self-conscious whenever there are long pauses, or if I think I've said something stupid.  I forgot the psychological effect of looking back at 30 students with blank faces.  But upon reflection, 99 times out of 100 I'm fairly certain none of my students even notice.  Ironically, what they do notice is when it affects me and I subsequently start going over the powerpoint too quickly and/or don't take a beat and make the material clear to them.

[Secretary of Eumenes]

So howdus this work you just blah and blah and blah or what? Who blahs first or should you only blah to blah back- in order to avoid being blahsupmtuous?

I don't understand what you people are accomplishing

[mcbigski]

Not Dating Thread material exactly but might as well share it here.  Went out with some friends to watch the NFL playoff games Saturday.  Moved to a second venue for the second game closer to most of our homes.  We grabbed a table near the biggest screen.  Looked around and saw three younger ladies at the bar with their back to us mostly and another couple talking to them. 

Checked out the woman, blonde, 40s, decent back side.  Was wearing a sweatshirt memorializing the two police officers that got murdered in my home town in October because bail reform shut down the drunk tank.  Figured cop, wife, and friends and paid no more mind.

So I go to the head and on the way back I'm walking past the couple and all of the sudden someone and I collide.  Turns out sweatshirt woman is my ex girlfriend. LOL.  I've seen that back into me move before. 

I guess the take away is that if you're in a non crowded area and end up in a collision, you should consider if it was an accident. 

[DMC]

19 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Was wearing a sweatshirt memorializing the two police officers that got murdered in my home town in October because bail reform shut down the drunk tank.

Right, because bail reform is somehow responsible for two cops getting murdered.  You do realize the drunk tank is holding people before they are even arraigned - and therefore before bail/bond could even conceivably be set - right?  Can't even tell an anecdote about going to a bar without your insipidly stupid horseshit.

[Knight Of Winter]

8 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

One thing I will say is that one thinks about oneself more than anyone else thinks about oneself (in general), so a lot of things you might experience as deeply embarrassing or whatever, everyone else around you doesn’t even notice.  It’s actually quite humbling.  

This reminds of of this old half-tongue-in-cheek saying: 
When I was 20 - I was so worried what everyone will think of me. 
When I was 30 - I stopped worrying what others will think of me and I felt so proud.
When I was 40 - I realized that nobody has ever thought of me in the first place.

Back to topic at hand - I think this "I don't want to be creepy" is one of worst self-sabotaging mindsets one can have in the dating scene. Instead of helping you to be confident, relaxed and able to freely express your romantic interest in a healthy manner, this mindset achieves the exact opposite: it makes you insecure, self-conscious and afraid of any kind of flirting.

Ironically, because men who actually are creeps (i.e. the only ones who would benefit from this kind of mindset) usually don't particularly care about women's level of comfort in the first place. No, it's the other kind of men - shy, reserved, polite, respectful - who are the ones who worry about coming of as creeps, although in reality they're anything but, in most cases.

[Liffguard]

 

[mcbigski]

9 hours ago, DMC said:

Right, because bail reform is somehow responsible for two cops getting murdered.  You do realize the drunk tank is holding people before they are even arraigned - and therefore before bail/bond could even conceivably be set - right?  Can't even tell an anecdote about going to a bar without your insipidly stupid horseshit.

The perps were issued a summons and told to walk home instead of getting arrested and thrown in the drunk tank. Per my friend who is bail bondsman in town and knew both officers.    Yes I short-handed bail reform to include issuing citations for things that used to bring about arrest.  Both policies are designed by the left with the same ends in mind and implemented recently, to erode society, increase division, and make things worse intentionally.  Gotta seed that revolution comrade, amiright?

[Toth]

18 hours ago, Maithanet said:

It took time to basically learn to get over myself, because showing interest in another person is not douchey or creepy at all. 

I don't know... in another forum I once read that all "flirting" is careful overstepping of boundaries and it did sound like a reasonable take. And as someone who is constantly defensive, has very strong boundaries and has no other reference point for the boundaries of others, I... really don't think I can ever do that.

I now have continued that conversation and kept open about looking into that meetup. The next is in February, so there is still time. I guess in that time I need to work through my feelings of not belonging, because I got scolded by the other guy who is doing a workshop there when I was saying my amateurish cosplay attempts are trash in comparison to the effort I'm seeing everyone else put into it.

Well that and getting out of my current slump of self-loathing, for that matter.

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, Toth said:

I don't know... in another forum I once read that all "flirting" is careful overstepping of boundaries and it did sound like a reasonable take. And as someone who is constantly defensive, has very strong boundaries and has no other reference point for the boundaries of others, I... really don't think I can ever do that.

I don't think I'd agree with that definition, but regardless, expressing interest in someone (whether it is just in what they have to say or interest in spending time with them in the future) does not require flirting.  If you have online conversations with someone who you know is local, it is not overstepping boundaries to ask if they would like to have conversations in person, particularly in some safe venue for your mutual interests. 

Quote

I now have continued that conversation and kept open about looking into that meetup. The next is in February, so there is still time. I guess in that time I need to work through my feelings of not belonging, because I got scolded by the other guy who is doing a workshop there when I was saying my amateurish cosplay attempts are trash in comparison to the effort I'm seeing everyone else put into it.

As you probably know better than me, the point of cosplay is not oneupmanship or sneering at other people's work, but to creatively express yourself and have fun.  Whether your costumes are as impressive as other peoples is really not relevant unless you want to win contests or something. 

I hope you know this is coming from a good place, but are you in or have you considered therapy?  Because it seems like you are really struggling with issues of self-loathing and that is giving you anxiety about even very normal interactions.

[kiko]

5 hours ago, Toth said:

I don't know... in another forum I once read that all "flirting" is careful overstepping of boundaries and it did sound like a reasonable take. And as someone who is constantly defensive, has very strong boundaries and has no other reference point for the boundaries of others, I... really don't think I can ever do that.

I now have continued that conversation and kept open about looking into that meetup. The next is in February, so there is still time. I guess in that time I need to work through my feelings of not belonging, because I got scolded by the other guy who is doing a workshop there when I was saying my amateurish cosplay attempts are trash in comparison to the effort I'm seeing everyone else put into it.

Well that and getting out of my current slump of self-loathing, for that matter.

So you definitely should ask that lady to help you with that cosplay thingy. Since you are new to the scene you need some support. You don't want to let down the others, do you?

[Madame deVenoge]

20 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Not sure that's 100% helpful. 

@Toth, I will tell you this again as someone who likes you, you need to take a deep breath and stop being so hard on yourself. Just start there. 

Perhaps I was being a bit quick with my words - what I was trying to say is what you and everyone else have been saying “quit being hard on yourself”.

Because REALLY, people these days are very quick to share their feelings, so IMO, if Toth hasn’t had negative feedback from women regarding all the negative things he thinks about himself…then it’s probably him just judging himself overly harshly.

As has been stated, creeps NEVER think they are creepy. If you are a guy and you’re overly worried about being creepy, chances are good that you are not creepy. If you are a guy and your concern is how drunk you want a woman to be before you make moves, and you think there is nothing wrong with this…well, that’s creepy.

[Wade1865]

6 hours ago, Toth said:

... in another forum I once read that all "flirting" is careful overstepping of boundaries and it did sound like a reasonable take.

Toth -- that’s a novel description of flirting! It implies the risk-reward and action-reaction aspects of human interaction. Very interesting!

[IheartIheartTesla]

7 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I hope you know this is coming from a good place, but are you in or have you considered therapy?  Because it seems like you are really struggling with issues of self-loathing and that is giving you anxiety about even very normal interactions.

I would second this based on some of the posts I was reading (in fact I was about to suggest therapy myself). Not just for the prospects of dating or what have you, but for quality of life in general, which is far more important. 

Going to cosplay and enjoying yourself can lead to other events or social gatherings you can participate in, and meeting women kind of becomes organic rather than having to go to a dating site and 'sell' yourself (I've been on those in ancient times when I was single and I can imagine how trash they are now).

Anyway, this is just random thoughts from a random internet stranger, but I do feel there is some value in Maith's suggestion (as well as everyone elses that you not be so hard on yourself)

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Therapy is one of my favorite things.  

I think a lot of what people call flirting isn’t really.  It’s showing true and genuine interest in another human and listening well.  That’s just a nice thing.  

 

 

[Wade1865]

If there isn't a self-help book on the Art of Flirting, someone should write it.

When I was a young teenager, and a girl showed "true and genuine interest" in me, I always tried to respond with, "are you flirting with me; omg, you're flirting!" And at other times I'd approach a girl at school with, "do you wanna play Dungeons & Dragons with us?" I'd always say it loud enough so everyone in vicinity could hear, for maximum effects.

And another time I'd carry a dozen fresh flowers professionally wrapped in green tissue paper around all day going from class to class with them hidden in my backpack before finally finding the courage to give them to the girl before the school day ended, though by then they were all mangled and wrinkled; and her bemused, as I immediately rushed away without a word to her then or any time thereafter, hahaha.

Those first days of flirting with others was so clumsy and awkward, yet so ... innocent and engrossing. As difficult and embarassing as those incidents were, I regret none of them.

[Toth]

On 1/25/2023 at 5:46 PM, Maithanet said:

I don't think I'd agree with that definition, but regardless, expressing interest in someone (whether it is just in what they have to say or interest in spending time with them in the future) does not require flirting.  If you have online conversations with someone who you know is local, it is not overstepping boundaries to ask if they would like to have conversations in person, particularly in some safe venue for your mutual interests. 

Mmh. I guess it depends on what you consider flirting... but then, any kind of expression of interest can I think be seen as unwelcome when the person receiving it doesn't consider the one doing the flirting attractive enough. Therefore to me it makes sense that flirting is 'testing the waters' so to speak, to check whether it is reciprocated or get confirmation whether you are a bother.

Not that I have any experience, but it sounded believable enough to me.

On 1/25/2023 at 5:46 PM, Maithanet said:

I hope you know this is coming from a good place, but are you in or have you considered therapy?  Because it seems like you are really struggling with issues of self-loathing and that is giving you anxiety about even very normal interactions.

Yes, yes, it's on my list until after I get a civil servant status. I'm afraid until then I can't afford to have anything in my records.

20 hours ago, kiko said:

So you definitely should ask that lady to help you with that cosplay thingy. Since you are new to the scene you need some support. You don't want to let down the others, do you?

Her own workshop is about foam armor, which is not in any way needed for the stuff I have in mind, so I'm gonna give that train of thought a pass, thanks. I should also reinforce that I was just using this as a reference point for my anxieties. It's not like I have any serious interest in a person I have just had a few exchanges with and for all I know is likely taken anyway. It's just that I felt scummy when noticing I considered trying out this place more because a woman asked as opposed to a guy. That really shouldn't be my concern when I just wanted to network.

[Secretary of Eumenes]

Flirting seems a folly

State your intentions plainly and I will do the same

Less blood shed 

in the end

[Maithanet]

1 hour ago, Toth said:

Her own workshop is about foam armor, which is not in any way needed for the stuff I have in mind, so I'm gonna give that train of thought a pass, thanks. I should also reinforce that I was just using this as a reference point for my anxieties. It's not like I have any serious interest in a person I have just had a few exchanges with and for all I know is likely taken anyway. It's just that I felt scummy when noticing I considered trying out this place more because a woman asked as opposed to a guy. That really shouldn't be my concern when I just wanted to network.

Why should this feel scummy?  Would you rather order a coffee from someone you find attractive over someone very plain?  Because 95+% of people will pick the attractive person, even if it's just getting coffee and you aren't flirting at all.