Dating Thread: Total Eclipse of the Heart edition

[BigFatCoward]

Between a and b. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

A or C.  Though I suppose it totally could be any and depends more on the specifics of your relationship.  

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Ethics question: is a one-time sexting session with a friend who lives thousands of miles away:

a. Similar to having “lust in one’s heart” where it’s a little like having impure thoughts that will never be acted upon,

b. Cheating, or

c. No big deal?

I’m going with a. 
And I still fantasize about my personal trainer from 2012.

What it is, is dependent to some extent on the boundaries and expectations of the relationship one is in at the time. If these things have not been discussed in that relationship, they absolutely should be IMO. For some folks this will be a, for others it will be b or c, and those can all be valid positions to have, but a problem arises when one person in a relationship thinks it's a or c and the other thinks it's b.

[Knight Of Winter]

I won't say B outright, but it's definitely something that's not pushing one's relationship in a healthy direction, even if it's only a small push. I find good heuristics to be - if in involves something romantic/sexual with the third party, and you have to hide it from your partner, then it's not okay.  

I mean - if such stuff was discussed and agreed to beforehand with your partner - then my answer shifts to C; but I don't think that's what you were asking.

[Madame deVenoge]

I’m personally thinking A, because it was a total one-off. 

Should it happen again, I’d have to re-think the health of my relationship. 

[Toth]

I may be the last one to ask, but... I also feel that it sounds a tad more proactive than only "impure thoughts". I guess a lot of it depends on how... serious stuff was described. If it's just fooling around with a friend, sure, but given that you seem concerned enough to post about it here, I'd wager there is some amount of guilt involved. So... in either case, I would judge it as a big misstep as an outside observer that you should make very sure not to repeat.

 

 

Well, meanwhile I'm being stupid again. In a mixture of fear of my nearing 30th birthday, frustration about how my attempts to be more among people in RL were an utter failure so far and another suffocating burst of loneliness... I'm back on Bumble... What am I doing to myself? I guess I have better pictures now thanks to my con experiences, but... those of course are pictures at a con, which won't get me anywhere, quite probably.

Amusingly I had a bit of a panic attack during the sign-in, suddenly fearing what would happen if a match actually happens, would I once again fail to be a social human being by either taking too long to respond to messages or by messaging too often? But then I signed up and immediately remembered that this is me on an online dating platform, so naturally I won't ever get any likes and... well, that was two days ago and so far my expectations have been completely confirmed. It is strange how that immediately put my mind to rest.

Then again, somehow the site has gotten worse 2 years after my last attempt. Fair enough, the profiles of women are still the same. Three pictures of supermodels, an instagram link and nothing else. But you can now only filter after age and distance, all the other options are now premium. Also I pretty much instantly got told I've ran out of likes and need to buy premium for those as well. Rotten garbage site...

Other observations: Thrice I saw pictures of women showing very prominently an engagement/wedding ring into the camera. What... am I supposed make of that? Also am fairly sure I saw two former students of mine. Both profiles were however as barren as the rest of them, which... makes sense. Those three matches I had in the half a year I was on there the last time also were pretty damn empty and I probably would have never swiped right on them because of that if they hadn't made the like first... In any case, I suppose that's the risk coming with my profession. I just hope I will never get shown to them. Amidst everything I then also perked up at a very good looking (but not... fake looking, if you know what I mean) woman who also had convention pictures and wrote about how she won't shut up about nerd stuff... and that she's just here for casual sex... Uhm... okay... sure... Damn... well, you do you... if you aren't a fake profile catfishing nerds of course.

Sigh... once again, why am I doing this to myself?

[Heartofice]

22 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Ethics question: is a one-time sexting session with a friend who lives thousands of miles away:

a. Similar to having “lust in one’s heart” where it’s a little like having impure thoughts that will never be acted upon,

b. Cheating, or

c. No big deal?

I’m going with a. 
And I still fantasize about my personal trainer from 2012.

I'd go with a light B. Its probably something most couples will get over but it's a pretty bad sign if discovered and there would be a serious lack of trust going forward. You might see it as nothing, but what if that person had been in the room with you, would it have been more than just 'live sexting'. Of course depends on where you are in your relationship, but I think it would mess up trust levels for most people.

12 minutes ago, Toth said:

I may be the last one to ask, but... I also feel that it sounds a tad more proactive than only "impure thoughts". I guess a lot of it depends on how... serious stuff was described. If it's just fooling around with a friend, sure, but given that you seem concerned enough to post about it here, I'd wager there is some amount of guilt involved. So... in either case, I would judge it as a big misstep as an outside observer that you should make very sure not to repeat.

 

 

Well, meanwhile I'm being stupid again. In a mixture of fear of my nearing 30th birthday, frustration about how my attempts to be more among people in RL were an utter failure so far and another suffocating burst of loneliness... I'm back on Bumble... What am I doing to myself? I guess I have better pictures now thanks to my con experiences, but... those of course are pictures at a con, which won't get me anywhere, quite probably.

Amusingly I had a bit of a panic attack during the sign-in, suddenly fearing what would happen if a match actually happens, would I once again fail to be a social human being by either taking too long to respond to messages or by messaging too often? But then I signed up and immediately remembered that this is me on an online dating platform, so naturally I won't ever get any likes and... well, that was two days ago and so far my expectations have been completely confirmed. It is strange how that immediately put my mind to rest.

Then again, somehow the site has gotten worse 2 years after my last attempt. Fair enough, the profiles of women are still the same. Three pictures of supermodels, an instagram link and nothing else. But you can now only filter after age and distance, all the other options are now premium. Also I pretty much instantly got told I've ran out of likes and need to buy premium for those as well. Rotten garbage site...

Other observations: Thrice I saw pictures of women showing very prominently an engagement/wedding ring into the camera. What... am I supposed make of that? Also am fairly sure I saw two former students of mine. Both profiles were however as barren as the rest of them, which... makes sense. Those three matches I had in the half a year I was on there the last time also were pretty damn empty and I probably would have never swiped right on them because of that if they hadn't made the like first... In any case, I suppose that's the risk coming with my profession. I just hope I will never get shown to them. Amidst everything I then also perked up at a very good looking (but not... fake looking, if you know what I mean) woman who also had convention pictures and wrote about how she won't shut up about nerd stuff... and that she's just here for casual sex... Uhm... okay... sure... Damn... well, you do you... if you aren't a fake profile catfishing nerds of course.

Sigh... once again, why am I doing this to myself?

I think you have already realised this but I reckon online dating is a bad deal for a lot of people and isn't good for mental health. For most guys its like a rejection machine where girls reject you 500 times a day. That can add up in the back of your head even if you don't notice it.

Most of my friends for whom internet dating didn't work managed to find someone through taking up hobbies that puts them into contact with other people that they are most similar to. Hiking seemed to be a big winner here. 

I think most of these apps are really dangerous for peoples view of the world and can really mess you up. I'd run away as far as possible unless you the sort of person for whom it works really well, like if you are insta famous or something.

[Larry of the Lawn]

3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

. 

I think most of these apps are really dangerous for peoples view of the world and can really mess you up. I'd run away as far as possible unless you the sort of person for whom it works really well, like if you are insta famous or something.

I'd just like to counter this doom and gloom about internet dating by saying that tens of millions of people the world over have met their significant other on apps.  It's a tool, it works for some people, maybe not for others.  

@Toth, I think its great you're back on there looking if it's something you want to do.  In my anecdotal experience on the apps putting up pictures of yourself doing things you're actually interested in like cons is probably the best way to screen people and find someone who is a good match for you.  That said if internet dating is making you feel bad try something else.  But it is a numbers game and it can take a couple months to get a match or a date, especially depending on how many people in your area are using it.  I've personally found it worth paying for the apps to make them actually functional.  Good luck out there!  

[Heartofice]

Just now, Larry of the Lake said:

I'd just like to counter this doom and gloom about internet dating by saying that tens of millions of people the world over have met their significant other on apps.  It's a tool, it works for some people, maybe not for others.  

Sure but I think you can tell pretty quickly if its not for you, and if its not then I'd suggest stop trying it, because as you say, its a numbers game but for a lot of guys the numbers are very much stacked against you. I'm not sure why someone would attempt to try and stand out in a crowd of thousands / millions if that is not something that works for you. Much better to find an arena where you are able to really be yourself and show your best side.

[Larry of the Lawn]

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Sure but I think you can tell pretty quickly if its not for you, and if its not then I'd suggest stop trying it, because as you say, its a numbers game but for a lot of guys the numbers are very much stacked against you. I'm not sure why someone would attempt to try and stand out in a crowd of thousands / millions if that is not something that works for you. Much better to find an arena where you are able to really be yourself and show your best side.

That's a weird way to frame it- of you're trying to meet someone online it is literally just putting yourself out there as honestly possible and then waiting for someone who's into that to see it.  There's this persistent myth about heterosexual dating that it's just a million dudes competing for one woman- that's not the case at all. 

I think the idea of meeting someone through a hobby or common interest is a wonderful thing, but with the caveat that if you're doing an activity to meet someone rather than out of a genuine interest in the activity, you are setting yourself up for frustration.  Seeing someone in their own element just being themself is very attractive.  That's a thing you can use the apps for too.

[Heartofice]

40 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

That's a weird way to frame it- of you're trying to meet someone online it is literally just putting yourself out there as honestly possible and then waiting for someone who's into that to see it.  There's this persistent myth about heterosexual dating that it's just a million dudes competing for one woman- that's not the case at all. 

No but it is the case that women receive FAR more messages than men and get liked more and swiped right etc than men and the experiences are very different. Obviously a bit dependent on what app you are using but most women are trying to filter out the gold from the pile of shit in their DMs, and a lot of guys have a completely empty DM section hoping someone, anyone would reply to them.

Its also very difficult to demonstrate your qualities online at a glance if your qualities are not the sort of thing that work well in a photo and blurb format.

 

[Toth]

1 hour ago, Larry of the Lake said:

@Toth, I think its great you're back on there looking if it's something you want to do.  In my anecdotal experience on the apps putting up pictures of yourself doing things you're actually interested in like cons is probably the best way to screen people and find someone who is a good match for you.  That said if internet dating is making you feel bad try something else.  But it is a numbers game and it can take a couple months to get a match or a date, especially depending on how many people in your area are using it.  I've personally found it worth paying for the apps to make them actually functional.  Good luck out there!  

To be honest, I'm also in the doom and gloom faction. I'm fairly realistic that these apps try to wring you out for every penny by pretty much burying your profile instead of showing it to anyone until you pay up and then Heartofice is in that regard correct that the men outnumber the women vastly, so an ugly nerdy gnome like me has absolutely zero chance to get any attention from anyone. I remind you that the last time I tried that I was on there for half a year, got three matches and one meet-up... with a bored Chinese expat with no interest in a relationship, who then quickly broke off all contact. So me being there again is mostly a desperation act because two years of trying to get out more and focusing on making friends... has gotten me absolutely nowhere because I just suck so badly at everything social.

I must also admit that at least I'm not... really hoping all that much to succeed, because while I've caught myself taken aback by how starved of intimacy I am recently (when in the train with my backpack on my lap I found that if I hug it and imagine I'm hugging a person, I actually can provoke a fuzzy feeling in my chest - something I never felt before and that horrified me for how pathetic I must be to be able to so easily fool my body...), I still have to consider how... impossible a task having a relationship looks like and how it still just doesn't mesh well with still living together with my mother and her plans for me to buy ourselves a house. I am well aware that every woman would run away screaming from a guy like me. With which I mean a guy with my looks, my backstory, my circumstances, my lacking work/life-balance and my interests.

So anyway, I also won't be paying for this shit, because wasting money and still get crickets chirping at me out of these apps would be far worse than just... having an account and occasionally fool around with it with no expectation that anything would ever happen on there.

[Madame deVenoge]

Remember, Henry Ford once said something like “if you think you can’t, you are always right.”

 

[Tywin et al.]

31 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Remember, Henry Ford once said something like “if you think you can’t, you are always right.”

 

Remember, Ford was also a Nazi sympathizer of sorts, so his opinions don't matter at all. Anyone could come up with that fortune cookie shit. 

 

[mormont]

7 hours ago, Toth said:

Well, meanwhile I'm being stupid again. In a mixture of fear of my nearing 30th birthday, frustration about how my attempts to be more among people in RL were an utter failure so far and another suffocating burst of loneliness... I'm back on Bumble... What am I doing to myself? I guess I have better pictures now thanks to my con experiences, but... those of course are pictures at a con, which won't get me anywhere, quite probably.

They'll get you where you want to go. If people judge you negatively for having a con pic, after all, they'll judge you for going to cons and for being the sort of person who goes to cons. And that means it's a waste of time engaging with them, in most cases.

Which is why my dating profile has a pic of me in armour swinging a sword. It's also a kickass pic.

Though you can't actually see my face 'cause the visor's down...

Anyway, the point is, be honest about who you are, it's the best dating strategy by far. But that definitely does not mean running yourself down as you're doing here. You're perfectly OK!

That said, if you don't feel great about yourself, there isn't a dating strategy - online, real life, arranged marriage, mail order bride, whatever - that can fix that. You have to fix that independently, preferably before you date someone, because even if you were getting a dozen messages on Bumble a day, none of them will go well if you don't feel worthy of the attention. I appreciate you've probably already made really strenuous efforts at this and I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

[mcbigski]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:25 AM, Chataya de Fleury said:

Ethics question: is a one-time sexting session with a friend who lives thousands of miles away:

a. Similar to having “lust in one’s heart” where it’s a little like having impure thoughts that will never be acted upon,

b. Cheating, or

c. No big deal?

I’m going with a. 
And I still fantasize about my personal trainer from 2012.

Sounds like it feels at least cheating adjacent to you.  You've got agency.  Keep it as a one time back slide and is stays misdemeanor C.

[Toth]

9 hours ago, mormont said:

They'll get you where you want to go. If people judge you negatively for having a con pic, after all, they'll judge you for going to cons and for being the sort of person who goes to cons. And that means it's a waste of time engaging with them, in most cases.

You are assuming I'll stay visible enough to get judged by the right people, which is not how their algorithm works. You get a short burst of visibility after signing up and with every swipe left in that window your visibility decreases until they put you into the "hopeless" category and don't show your profile at all. So because I'm unattractive to the vast majority of women, my profile will be too obscure for anyone who might not immediately be turned off to even see my profile, buried beneath those who can sell themselves the best or have just bought the visibility.

Of course, since I already was signed up... a couple of times... to abuse that burst because otherwise I would never have been able to get those three matches... I'm also assuming they have woken up to that abuse to their mechanics and kept a file on me so that I don't even get that burst anymore. That's what happened two years ago. I got all those likes only at the very beginning then came months of utter silence.

[Toth]

Okay, I'll be damned. I didn't think it was possible anymore, but somehow I still got a match. Of course she doesn't respond to my greeting, but... why should she? So no surprise on that front. For added hilarity, Bumble obviously didn't match me with a local, but with a girl from the other end of the world. Whom I was just about to swipe left when I noticed her name was almost the same as the love interest of a character I was cosplaying in one of my pictures, so I chuckled and swiped right as a meme. I was quite surprised to see her swipe right as well this morning. I suppose just for the novelty of it as well.

Other than that, nothing new. I suppose it makes me question a bit whether I had been too harsh in swiping... but I guess spelling out again that I swipe left when the profile is empty or when there is only an instagram link, when there are only ultra professional pictures or when the person is clearly too pretty, makes me a judgemental prick again. Especially when I at the same time also have to note that I'm getting particularly badly reminded about the time I've lost when half the women my age on that platform start to look like they could be my mother... So yeah, I barely swipe right, or even when I see a profile that doesn't check any of the above boxes, I still end up just closing the app in indecisiveness. At the same time when I find someone have a series of pictures in different outfits doing selfies in different rooms of their apartment, I ended up finding that strangely endearing. XD

Edit: Aaaaaaand gone!

Edited April 10 by Toth

[Madame deVenoge]

I think I may have been too candid with the Doctor during my recent travails of taxes and severe bonus cut. This had the effect of cutting my total cash pay by 1/3 while also owing a shit ton to the IRS, which I am going to intentionally underestimate as I file an extension, so I can get some more cash together for October.

Note that I never asked him for anything, and would never, but it was very psychologically disturbing for me to have to sell some stock in order to pay Uncle Sam even the underestimate, and also paying my credit card (I got into a bad habit of paying it in full with my bonus, so with no bonus, had to dip into my cash savings cushion) took my bank balance from a Decent Number to OMG I MIGHT ONLY HAVE 6 MONTHS OF SAVINGS. Aaaaaaugh. 

After losing 15 pounds over a few weeks in an excess of puking randomly due to stress and being physically unable to eat, I was able to correct course (nothing REALLY keeps me down for long), but I wonder if he thinks I’m psychologically unstable or something, because of that.

Then again, imagine if you had your pay cut by 1/3, while still being able to pay your mortgage, your kid’s student loans, your vet bills, etc, but things just got a whole fucking  lot tighter. Like, no new clothes, no personal trainer, no gym membership at the expensive gym, cut back the mani/pedis to no nail art and just the basics, no wine club, and a lot more home cooking (such as mine may be) than not. 

[Madame deVenoge]

UPDATE - he has been really good, recently. More attentive. He knew I was going to be up super late, working, one night, and when I do “super late,” that’s like a 3 or 4 am, which he knows.

He had fallen asleep on his recliner, and woke up at 1 am, and called me, mumbling his way to bed <3 but calling me to say goodnight. 

Major brownie points for that.