Jump to content

Dating Thread: Total Eclipse of the Heart edition


Chataya de Fleury
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just now, JGP said:

Come on, that's a cop out. I'm not being hostile here, genuinely curious.

You've said the regimented life is your past, but... Are you surrounded by other formers, or with the others you kind of coexits with. The, what did you call them. The rationalizers.

JGP -- no worries; you really don't strike me as hostile, much less dangerous. In fact, your curiosity appeals to me. That said, I really don't know how else to compare our different valuations of pride. Some people are motivated by it, I'm not. Likewise, guilt and shame.

Yes; rationalizers. In this context, one could look at something as being black and white; or various shades of gray. For me, the former outlook is much more difficult to hold given the degree of collateral damage. The latter is simpler (and seemingly more humane), but requires rationalization to maintain such a moral code.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

JGP -- no worries; you really don't strike me as hostile, much less dangerous. In fact, your curiosity appeals to me. That said, I really don't know how else to compare our different valuations of pride. Some people are motivated by it, I'm not. Likewise, guilt and shame.

Whew. That's a relief.

 

7 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

Yes; rationalizers. In this context, one could look at something as being black and white; or various shades of gray. For me, the former outlook is much more difficult to hold given the degree of collateral damage. The latter is simpler (and seemingly more humane), but requires rationalization to maintain such a moral code.

What's with the pruning? Are you being legit right now or fucking with me? I wasn't kidding about not being hip on the latest gossip. 

Go on with the bolded there if you're feeling chatty.

Edited by JGP
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JGP said:

Whew. That's a relief.

 

What's with the pruning? Are you being legit right now or fucking with me? I wasn't kidding about not being hip on the latest gossip. 

Go on with the bolder there if you're feeling chatty.

JGP -- Good, I'm happy you feel relief; I thought it was obvious I love talking about myself, hahaha. Never hesitate to engage me in the future.

I think we might be on different wave-lengths; pruning what? I'm trying to be as straightforward as possible re my moral code and how it applies to guilt. It should be self-evident based on the quote, though I'm open to specific questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the invitation. Our lives are very different, it's true. 

I'm just going to throw this out there.

Do you think the posturing is discipline? It's like pruning isn't it? 

Yeah, you're a civilian now. But most of them aren't like you. If I knew what you did I've forgotten. Where you served, in what fashion. For how long. But everyone makes rationalizations. Soldiers too. Romanticize it a bit much maybe, that, at the time, perhaps necessary conviction.   

Iris it in to 'seemingly more humane' bit then.

What are the ambiguities I'm unaware of. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Not sure it's wise to tie the liberal political leanings of this forum to more promiscuous views of relationships. They don't go hand in hand at all.

Sorry my bad. I forgot that the other fixture of this board is to bring US politics into every discussion. I meant liberal in the sense of being of a liberal mind, not rooting for a specific party. I wouldn't insult boarders by claiming they root for the liberals in the sense of favouring the F.D.P. Nobody deserves that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, JGP said:

Thanks for the invitation. Our lives are very different, it's true. 

I'm just going to throw this out there.

Do you think the posturing is discipline? It's like pruning isn't it? 

Yeah, you're a civilian now. But most of them aren't like you. If I knew what you did I've forgotten. Where you served, in what fashion. For how long. But everyone makes rationalizations. Soldiers too. Romanticize it a bit much maybe, that, at the time, perhaps necessary conviction.   

Iris it in to 'seemingly more humane' bit then.

What are the ambiguities I'm unaware of. 

 

JGP -- this is why I love being surrounded by progressives / liberals / and the like. Now I know we're on different wave-lengths, re language and behavior. On posturing, I assume you mean, to "impress" or "mislead." For me, it was a real world "option" during any type of engagement, normally used before being compelled to resort to coercion or something beyond, in order to moderate a situation. Not applicable to this board.

Background was solely combat arms; multiple tours, IRQ / AFG; EM, NCO, CO; patrol bases, forward operating bases; Sunni triangle rural villages, Pakistani border areas, major urban cities; counterinsurgency, never conventional; best years of my life. I could write chapters on this, but it would be meaningless to you, so brevity is better.

Yes, we all rationalize in various contexts at different points in life, including me. Enlisting at 17, I was indoctrinated -- unwillingly and painfully, until it clicked, and I realized just how functional the corresponding moral code was, which I've faithfully practiced ever since. For example, I mishandled classified information (like the God Emperor, hahaha), and underwent an investigation that should have ended my career followed by some incarceration. Worse, the investigation should have retarded the careers of my subordinates.

I could have escaped punishment by lying and cheating, rationalizing that it would save the careers of me and my subordinates. Instead, I chose full disclosure, assuming risk for all of us. In consequence, I alone was allowed to be found guilty; then, given a top 10% rating, which guaranteed the next promotion, and a bronze star. More importantly, my people continued their careers unblemished. Hence, functional in my case (and my case only). It would be beter for most to maintain a "shades of gray" moral code, which I can empathize with.

I'll end my point of view here, before you derail this thread any further ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, IFR said:

As kiko noted, people here are much more cavalier about cheating and dishonesty.

That's not a fair characterisation at all. Nobody here can reasonably be described as 'cavalier' about it, nor do they think it's 'inconsequential'. They just don't accept that immediate full disclosure is always the only moral thing to do. And because you don't agree with them., you're disparaging them with comments like this. 

If you insist that the very idea that there could ever be nuance to this question is 'cavalier', that's quite an absolutist position. That doesn't recognise the reality of the situation. I've seen and experienced both sides of this issue. Cheating isn't the worst thing you can do, by far,  but it is a bad thing: and when it happens, it happens for a reason. That reason can be that the cheater is just a selfish person. But it can be a lot of other things too. It certainly does require discussion between the partners in my opinion but it's their relationship. Larry does not have the right to unilaterally decide whether and when that conversation should take place. He's not in that relationship.

Does that put Larry in a place where he's keeping something from a friend? Yeah. I'd find it hard to maintain the friendship in those circumstances, to be honest. But I'd sooner end the friendship (which is mine) than the relationship (which is not). 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, mormont said:

That's not a fair characterisation at all. Nobody here can reasonably be described as 'cavalier' about it, nor do they think it's 'inconsequential'. They just don't accept that immediate full disclosure is always the only moral thing to do. And because you don't agree with them., you're disparaging them with comments like this. 

If you insist that the very idea that there could ever be nuance to this question is 'cavalier', that's quite an absolutist position. That doesn't recognise the reality of the situation. I've seen and experienced both sides of this issue. Cheating isn't the worst thing you can do, by far,  but it is a bad thing: and when it happens, it happens for a reason. That reason can be that the cheater is just a selfish person. But it can be a lot of other things too. It certainly does require discussion between the partners in my opinion but it's their relationship. Larry does not have the right to unilaterally decide whether and when that conversation should take place. He's not in that relationship.

Does that put Larry in a place where he's keeping something from a friend? Yeah. I'd find it hard to maintain the friendship in those circumstances, to be honest. But I'd sooner end the friendship (which is mine) than the relationship (which is not). 

 

I agree with this 100%.
I also agree with @Mlle. Zabzie that if he is asked directly by Ron, he can’t lie about it.

Another thought went through my head this morning - @Larry of the Lake - does Betty even remember this incident? Could it be possible that she and you were both so under the influence that she was blacked out?
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Time for me to chime in. First of all I have to admit that I like Larry. I enjoy his posts and I really think he has a good heart. There is way more to this topic than anyone can know. A guy I worked with long ago was a skirt chaser, and he told me of meeting a woman in a bar who took him home for sex. While doing it he heard a noise in the closet and found her husband there, in a wheelchair. Apparently watching his wife have sex was the only sexual pleasure he had left so between them they had arranged this.

We have no idea of what, if any, arrangement Ron and Betty have between them. People really are strange in what makes them happy. If Betty asks you not to tell, don't. Mistakes are what you learn from. They are not, usually, an excuse for self flagellation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Time for me to chime in. First of all I have to admit that I like Larry. I enjoy his posts and I really think he has a good heart. There is way more to this topic than anyone can know. A guy I worked with long ago was a skirt chaser, and he told me of meeting a woman in a bar who took him home for sex. While doing it he heard a noise in the closet and found her husband there, in a wheelchair. Apparently watching his wife have sex was the only sexual pleasure he had left so between them they had arranged this.

We have no idea of what, if any, arrangement Ron and Betty have between them. People really are strange in what makes them happy. If Betty asks you not to tell, don't. Mistakes are what you learn from. They are not, usually, an excuse for self flagellation.

Well that is not ok at all because they should have asked the guy first if he is ok with being watched. No arrangement that skips getting consent from one of the people involved is ok.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Well that is not ok at all because they should have asked the guy first if he is ok with being watched. No arrangement that skips getting consent from one of the people involved is ok.

Many people, especially if they're new to what they're doing, don't know how to talk about their sexual kinks or needs. I still laugh to this day, almost exactly a decade afterwards, when a hot dark haired Italian girl in her early 20's asked me to tie her up face down to her bed, put a leather mask over her head and fuck her as hard as I could from behind. Idk if I was the first person she asked, but she did so nervously. 

Sure, it's easy to say everything should be put on the table up front, but my guess is the majority of people still have somethings that fascinates or entices them that they otherwise don't want to share or are at least not ready to. I think the above pretty easily falls into the category. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Many people, especially if they're new to what they're doing, don't know how to talk about their sexual kinks or needs. I still laugh to this day, almost exactly a decade afterwards, when a hot dark haired Italian girl in her early 20's asked me to tie her up face down to her bed, put a leather mask over her head and fuck her as hard as I could from behind. Idk if I was the first person she asked, but she did so nervously. 

Sure, it's easy to say everything should be put on the table up front, but my guess is the majority of people still have somethings that fascinates or entices them that they otherwise don't want to share or are at least not ready to. I think the above pretty easily falls into the category. 

Your example is fundamentally different than having someone watch you - or being taped - without one's consent.  Indeed, the difference is self-evident - you obviously consented.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Your example is fundamentally different than having someone watch you - or being taped - without one's consent.  Indeed, the difference is self-evident - you obviously consented.

But the ask happened after we were already rounding third. I've been in that situation a handful of times and can understand why someone might not want to ask up front, whatever your moral judgement of that is. In a similar situation, I had a one night stand with a friend who wanted to be tied up and suspended over her bed. I would have probably given her a thumbs up if she mentioned it beforehand, but she had a ballerina's body and thought to ask after she was in her birthday suit. What was I to do? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

But the ask happened after we were already rounding third.

Well, you can still say no.  I get that that's kind of coercive of at that point, but my problem is it seems you're trying to excuse being watched/taped without consent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, you can still say no.  I get that that's kind of coercive of at that point, but my problem is it seems you're trying to excuse being watched/taped without consent.

To be clear, taping a sexual encounter is entirely different. Doing so without consent is never okay.

I'm a little more understanding though of a voyeur who is too embarrassed to ask up front if their partner is consenting. But I've also had sex in front of a bunch of random strangers and a handful of friends so my opinion probably is outside of the norm. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to my buddy, he couldn't continue, while the guy in the closet burst into tears, while confessing this was the only way for him to get any sexual pleasure. No video was involved. Maybe consent should have been asked but this was the 70s. Lots of stuff that is acceptable now was still illegal then. Even in Canada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

...I had a one night stand with a friend who wanted to be tied up and suspended...

53 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

...in front of a bunch of random strangers and a handful of friends...

Tywin et al. -- wait a second. Tied up? Suspended? In front of others? Was it kinda like [warning, graphic] ... this, hahaha.

/intended only in good fun

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

She saved my snap 

  Hide contents

not the one with me, but the fricking rain

I can fill a gallery with hers, but she's got a few dozen of my feet max

Am I the only person who has no idea what TheLastWolf is talking about?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...