[Spoilers] Episode 102 Discussion

[Ran]

Book spoilers and episod discussion  here. Apologies for the delay, could have sworn I had set this up.

[Raksha 2014]

Can little Laena Velaryon be any cuter?   I certainly don't blame Viserys for not wanting to marry her, though; she's just a little girl; Viserys has faults, but he doesn't want to take a little girl to bed, not even when she grows to 14.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Raksha 2014

[The Bard of Banefort]

The use of the same theme song is the biggest indicator to me that HBO wants this to be their Star Wars. One “signature” theme for all shows. 

[Raksha 2014]

The opening sequence, sadly, did not impress me much; solely because there was so much blood and no fire.  Kind of icky and not intimidating or exciting.

[RumHam]

Can someone remind me where Vhagar was at this point in the books? I feel like the answer wasn't "who knows?"

I started late and have paused a bunch, so I just got to Daemon's note. Fond memories of many debates about whether Targaryen princes could practice polygamy without the king's blessing. I know @Lord Varys will remember those.

Am I right that the valyrian speaking Dragon Keepers are an invention of the show?

Edit: The City Watch thing bothers me a bit. Why not just "loyal men." Like why would the Greens ever trust the goldcloaks after this?

Also Daemon acknowledges that Mysaria is pregnant, and that he plans to marry her. So doesn't that make her kid a bastard anyway?

Edited August 29, 2022 by RumHam

[C.T. Phipps]

32 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Can little Laena Velaryon be any cuter?   I certainly don't blame Viserys for not wanting to marry her, though; she's just a little girl; Viserys has faults, but he doesn't want to take a little girl to bed, not even when she grows to 14.

Yes, Paddy did a fantastic job handling the scene by making his visceral DISGUST obvious yet something he's trying to hide.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I feel the same way about this episode as I did about the premiere: it was okay. Not amazing, but not bad. That said, I think I would have liked it less if I hadn't read the books. 

Great acting from Milly Alcock. Rhaenyra is written in a very interesting way--she vacillates between meaning well and wanted her father's approval, and being a bit of a brat. The scene between her and Rhaenys was done well, but there was some serious cattiness/mean girl vibes going on. It's clear that it was intended to show Rhaenys passing on her wisdom to Rhaenyra, but instead it came across like a middle-aged woman trying to antagonize a teenage girl.

Alicent is. . . meh. They're trying to make her sympathetic by having her be Otto's pawn (and it's clear that she has by now figured out what he's up to and isn't happy about it), but I prefer the schemer/social climber from the books. In a way, this change is a bit regressive. I did like how she managed to tactfully push Rhaenyra and Viserys towards reconciliation, though. 

Little Laena was so cute, but dear God, that was a bad wig they put her in.

I've seen some people say that having Viserys reject Laena makes his decision to marry Alicent more sensible, but the thing is, Alicent is still only 15--just one year older than Laena would be at the time of consummation (the fact that she has a high-pitched, girlish voice makes it even worse). Viserys was thinking with his dick and it made my skin crawl.

I dunno, I just don't find Daemon all that charming. Faking a marriage/pregnancy just to get big brother's attention is major manchild behavior, and him being much older than in the books makes it more obnoxious.

Mysaria was horribly miscast. Her performance was significantly worse than the rest of the cast's, and it really stuck out. (I've only seen the actress in Crazy Rich Asians and she was fine, but that was a comedy). Her costume also looked too modern. like a wedding dress. 

I liked Corlys' performance, but it felt. . . different than everyone else? More theatrical.

We're really starting to see Viserys' weakness as a ruler, although his determination to avoid war is more admirable than anyone in-universe gives him credit for (and to Rhaenyra's credit, she found a way to diffuse the standoff with Daemon without any bloodshed). He has a frank conversation with his daughter about needing to remarry, yet doesn't bother to tell her that he's chosen Alicent. Also, he said Rhaenys was his favorite cousin. Aemma was your cousin too, my guy!

I like how we're seeing Viserys turn to Lyonel instead of the rest of his council for fair judgement. That said, it's weird that they didn't have anyone argue that getting remarried would cause a new succession crisis.

The dialogue was, much like last week, fine. It was a bit more repetitive this time, like with all the times someone said something about Viserys "needing to do his duty and remarry."

Edited August 29, 2022 by The Bard of Banefort

[Corvinus85]

9 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Can someone remind me where Vhagar was at this point in the books? I feel like the answer wasn't "who knows?"

Am I right that the valyrian speaking Dragon Keepers are an invention of the show?

The Dragon Keepers were in the book, but they were more armored soldiers than monks. And there was never a mention of people speaking Valyrian, but that's a nice touch when it comes to dragon training and keeping.

[Fez]

Had the biggest grin on my facing hearing that opening theme again. Overall, I thought the episode was mostly solid table-setting; reminiscent of the early episodes of the early seasons of GoT. The Dragonstone bridge scene was fantastic though, and elevates the episode from an 8/10 to 9/10 IMO.

[zajaz]

43 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Can little Laena Velaryon be any cuter?   I certainly don't blame Viserys for not wanting to marry her, though; she's just a little girl; Viserys has faults, but he doesn't want to take a little girl to bed, not even when she grows to 14.

A 15 year old girl, however... Now we are talking! Also, I take they retconned Mysaria's pregnancy, right?

Edited August 29, 2022 by zajaz

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Rhaenyra is just a badass.  She handles Daemon as only she can handle him.  He planned to allow his Dragon to intimidate the people sent.  She wouldn’t let him get away with that.  I like her… a lot. 

Her father absolutely should have talked to her before announcing his decision.  That was just stupid to spring that on her.

 

[RumHam]

So Otto's plan was basically to hope Daemon forgot he had a dragon? I wish instead of "what are you doing here princess" it was just their plan. Or have Otto send some people hoping Daemon will roast them and get banished to the wall.

[zajaz]

Am I the only one who found Rhaenyra a little bratty during Criston Cole's selection? If so, that's good. At least the writers are not whitewashing her (for now).

Edited August 29, 2022 by zajaz

[C.T. Phipps]

4 minutes ago, RumHam said:

So Otto's plan was basically to hope Daemon forgot he had a dragon? I wish instead of "what are you doing here princess" it was just their plan. Or have Otto send some people hoping Daemon will roast them and get banished to the wall.

Otto's thing is that he's not as clever as he thinks he is. He's very good at wheeling and dealing but his authority melts under the slightest actual resistance.

[Winterfell is Burning]

This was alright, but it's not firing at all cylinders yet.

The big flaw I think is that the decision to marry Alicent comes out of nowhere. Yes, they're talking, but there's no real indication Viserys is actually interested.

Can't say I was too impressed by the opening as well.

[C.T. Phipps]

1 minute ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

This was alright, but it's not firing at all cylinders yet.

The big flaw I think is that the decision to marry Alicent comes out of nowhere. Yes, they're talking, but there's no real indication Viserys is actually interested.

Can't say I was too impressed by the opening as well.

I actually like how utterly unromantic it's being made. Viserys ISNT that interested in Alicent but he's sure as shit less viscerally disgusted (I keep needing to use that word) at a sexual relationship with her than Laena.

So she's a compromise candidate.

Edited August 29, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Zorral]

49 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The use of the same theme song is the biggest indicator to me that HBO wants this to be their Star Wars. One “signature” theme for all shows. 

One Ring to rule them all, One ring to find them; One ring to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.

[Caligula_K3]

I didn't think it was bad, but I also didn't think it was particularly good. I've got no problem with slower, more talky episodes that are meant to set up the plot of the season. But this episode was pretty boring. There's only so many scenes you can have of characters talking about the same dynastic politics before it gets stale.

It doesn't help that just about every damn character on this show is dour and serious. This is a show filled with Jon Snows. Daemon at least had a little bit of life, and the Viserys actor is good. But this is meant to be a time of peace and plenty. Is there nobody having any fun? Or at least with a sense of humour? Can we have a Tyrion or Olenna Tyrell or Varys please?

[Joffrey's Wine]

4 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

This was alright, but it's not firing at all cylinders yet.

The big flaw I think is that the decision to marry Alicent comes out of nowhere. Yes, they're talking, but there's no real indication Viserys is actually interested.

Can't say I was too impressed by the opening as well.

The scene where he's looking over the broken stone dragon is one clue on what he's going to do. It isn't real obvious but it's there. At least it was for me.

Of my own note, why not just tell Corlys he'll join their houses in another way instead of letting him go away pissed off. But I guess they have to set up the story somehow so I'll let it slide and see what happens.

[Corvinus85]

A weaker episode than the first one, as the plot was slower, though it managed to achieve some good tension in a few moments and the acting continues to be strong. I think I agree with people who may have trouble feeling hooked by the show, as the main issue continues to be the king ensuring he has a firm succession plan, which for a modern audience is not that compelling. However, as a book reader I understand it and I'm fine with it.

I was unimpressed by the title sequence. Same song, really? And what is this, Stone & Blood? I guess that was meant to be Viserys's stone miniature of the Freehold, but the camera movement was a bit too quick for me to really grasp the symbols that were shown.

Paddy Considine continues to be the best actor, but Milly Alcock was great as well. In terms of the dialogue, the scenes between their characters were the best, whearas other dialogue scenes were more reminiscent of meh-to-decent GoT scenes, such as Rhaenyra with Rhaenys, Daemon and Mysaria, and Daemon and Corlys. Mysaria is too much like GoT Shae.

Daemon's stunt was definitely ridiculous, especially somehow pulling away a portion of the KL's City Watch. I feel like that should have caused the biggest scandal, more so than him just claiming a largely empty castle on a small island.

The setup at the end with the upcoming war was fairly well done. I specifically appreciated the hidden menace brought on by the soundtrack. But why end on a shot of a guy in a mask instead of maybe having the silhouette of Caraxes approaching with Velaryion ships in the background? No one actually really cares about some bloodthirsty pirate character.

The episode did have some great shots, especially the foggy dawn confrontation on Dragonstone's causeway. The CGI of Rhaenyra on dragonback was not that good, but I liked the rest.

I appreciated some other smaller scenes, like Viserys seeking Lord Strong's counsel, the maggot scene, the choosing of the new Kingsguard, drinking in the memory of Ser Ryam Redwyne. 

I feel that the scene of Viserys announcing who he intends to marry should have been done in the great hall, as a declaration to the entire court, with Corlys storming out from there. But such a scene probably would have required an additional setup scene which we didn't get. While Viserys is king, he probably should have discussed this with Otto, like how Robert and Ned discussed the match between Joffrey and Sansa.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Corvinus85