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[Spoilers] Episode 102 Discussion


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2 minutes ago, zajaz said:

I feel like I must agree with this. I'm sure the older actresses will do an amazing job, but the more I see clips of Emma D'Arcy and Olivia Cooke, the more I feel like I won't be able to convince myself that those two are the same characters that Milly and Emily are portraying right now. I hope I'm proven wrong.

I was initially unsure about how Carey and Cooke would connect, but Carey's Alicent is clearly full of nervous tics so I'm guessing that's just going to get worse as she gets older.

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1 hour ago, Rockroi said:

A Hand, Not a Fist: I am trying to wrack my brain as to what Otto Hightower's plan was?  I am not saying it was wrong, but his plan seems to have been, bring 2 Kingsguard, 20 men and ... bully or embarrass Daemon Targaryen?  My only thought is that Daemon would hold out but that he would, possibly, know that he could not murder the King's Hand, two Kingsguard and hope to get away with it.  So Daemon would see his predicament, dragon or not, and ... give up?  

Criston Cole mentioned he assembled Otto's best household guards. So speaking of shadows of future characters, would Otto be the "inventor" of the 20 good men tactic? :P Did this show subtly made fun of that stupidity showing how just showing up with 20 good men isn't really going to get you much?

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Just now, The Dragon Demands said:

"Dornish incursion"?

I mean the Dorne are always raiding over the border and getting beaten back. There's a reason the Dornish marches are battlefields.

Like Ironborn and Bear Islanders.

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29 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Some thoughts on the show:

1. It bothers me that it should be a political statement about old men having sex with children but unfortunately that is kind of an issue these days. The Small Council and Westeros culture tries to normalize it but Viserys wins a lot of sympathy points for his visceral disgust that ends up overcoming it. Unfortunately, he doesn't win any points with the fact he still is willing to marry a girl his daughter's age or maybe a year or so older that has hit her age of majority. I think with things like the recent Baptist, Utah, and Matt Gaetz scandals that this is unfortunately topical and shouldn't remotely be topical.

2. I lost a lot of respect for Corys for the exact same thing that Hightower was doing except even worse. Mind you, we know that Viserys is going to heal the rift by marrying Rhaenyra to Laenor and what sort of problems that leads to but I think that should have been discussed as an option from the beginning. Rhaenyra as a married monarch is something that would be less controversial among the Lords of Westeros.

3. Viserys trying to stand up for himself by marrying an actual woman and yet playing into Ser Otto's hands is a really interesting character beat. It shows that he wants to be powerful but he's really a puppet and desperate for Otto's approval. The fact that "I cannot permit you to go" WORKS is something no Targaryen or king should have tolerated.

4. I think I like Alicent's character arc here as she's being forced into the scheming role by her father but is clearly anxiety ridden and terrified of all the repercussions that might hit her. I actually kind of think this is a valid take on her character from the books because we think of the scheming Cersei Alicent a lot but we don't think of her, "kindly nurse Alicent who used to read to Old King Joe"

5. I liked that Otto Hightower was within minutes of being killed by Daemon and all of his men when the dragon blasted them because, of course, Otto wouldn't back down. It's a sign that Otto isn't nearly as intelligent as he thinks he is outside of his comfort zone. He's so used to being the King (rather than the Hand of the King) that he utterly underestimated how far Daemon would go.

It was a nice, "Power is power."

6. I truly believe Ser Otto didn't think Rhaenyra would rule or attempt to assert her authority. In retrospect, it's clear they're going with the idea that Ser Otto believed she'd be another Viserys he could control assuming that she became queen before Viserys married his daughter. The fact she asserts herself as much as she does sets the stages for his betrayal--with the Kingsguard, her speaking up, and of course her rescuing him on dragonback.

7. Daemon really was doing all this to lure his brother out to speak with him on Dragonstone but he sent Otto instead. One wonders what would have happened if they could have just spoken in private and gotten themselves settled. It was a silly temper tantrum but I fully believe Daemon was ready to rid the court of the Hightower disease before Rhaenyra stepped in.

 

Ser Otto really put his foot in it, and some hapless other men's lives, at risk, by traipsing off to Dragonstone with King Viserys' writ, rather than the King's actual presence, to try to get the Rogue Prince to toe the line.  Hasn't Otto learned by now that Daemon is a loose cannon who can go off at any time; and that the only person so far who can stop that cannon is Viserys?  (and he wasn't there). Also, did Otto forget that Daemon left King's Landing on the back of a dragon, so that in all probability he probably still had said dragon close by, which would give him a huge advantage over a few armed men?  

It's darned lucky that Rhaenyra showed up.  She has now become the second person in the world who can stop that loose cannon from firing.  At least sometimes.  

I can see why the Velaryons advanced their child as a pawn in the Game at so young an age, but sheesh.  She's practically a baby.  All she did was make Viserys shudder and run (figuratively) into the Hightowers' arms, horrified by the thought of wedding and bedding a cute little girl.   

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1 minute ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Ser Otto really put his foot in it, and some hapless other men's lives, at risk, by traipsing off to Dragonstone with King Viserys' writ, rather than the King's actual presence, to try to get the Rogue Prince to toe the line.  Hasn't Otto learned by now that Daemon is a loose cannon who can go off at any time; and that the only person so far who can stop that cannon is Viserys?  (and he wasn't there). Also, did Otto forget that Daemon left King's Landing on the back of a dragon, so that in all probability he probably still had said dragon close by, which would give him a huge advantage over a few armed men?  

It's darned lucky that Rhaenyra showed up.  She has now become the second person in the world who can stop that loose cannon from firing.  At least sometimes.  

I can see why the Velaryons advanced their child as a pawn in the Game at so young an age, but sheesh.  She's practically a baby.  All she did was make Viserys shudder and run (figuratively) into the Hightowers' arms, horrified by the thought of wedding and bedding a cute little girl.   

I like that they're consistently making it clear that Ser Otto isn't as good a schemer as he thinks he is. He wanted his daughter to seduce Viserys on Night 1# of his wife's death, he goes after Daemon with 20 men versus a dragon, and so on. He's seemingly unaware that a lot of his "genius" at politics is just the fact Viserys likes him and considers him a friend. Outside of his comfort zone and without Viserys, he's pretty damn useless.

Which we know is backed up by Fire and Blood.

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Pretty sure Otto was just counting on Daemon to not be stupid enough to kill him unprovoked.  Which, dragon theatrics aside, we have no reason to believe he was wrong in assuming.  And honestly, it was a pretty safe assumption.  The way they set it up it was clear Daemon was just being a petulant child wanting attention.

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Pretty sure Otto was just counting on Daemon to not be stupid enough to kill him unprovoked.  Which, dragon theatrics aside, we have no reason to believe he was wrong in assuming.  And honestly, it was a pretty safe assumption.  The way they set it up it was clear Daemon was just being a petulant child wanting attention.

 

Daemon is not happy unless he is the center of attention or at least getting a lot of approval, applause, praise.  He's got an ego bigger than Caraxes' gullet.  I pity his next wife, and imagine there will be fireworks with #3.  

 

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14 minutes ago, DMC said:

Pretty sure Otto was just counting on Daemon to not be stupid enough to kill him unprovoked.  Which, dragon theatrics aside, we have no reason to believe he was wrong in assuming.  And honestly, it was a pretty safe assumption.  The way they set it up it was clear Daemon was just being a petulant child wanting attention.

The fact that Daemon brought the egg with him to the confrontation at all makes me think he always intended to surrender it.  He was just posturing and wanted to make Otto submit and lose face before he gave it over.  

If you don't intent to give up the egg, why not leave it secured in Dragonstone? 

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I'm liking the series so far, but not as much as the early seasons of GoT.    I think one of the main missing ingredients is humor, even if just gallows humor, to lighten up the mood a little.    They need a Tyrion, a Lady Olenna, or a Dolorous Edd, or even a Hot Pie.   Obviously part of the problem is the source material is mainly hindered by limited amount of dialogue in the Fire and Blood text and the narrator himself who didn't include any similar character, that I can recall, with the well written humorous dialogue found in A Song of Fire and Ice .   The only character in the book continuously cracking jokes is the court fool, Mushroom, but not sure another dwarf being the focus of the humor would go over as well.

Therefore to inject humor into the show runners would have had to create someone new and come up with dialogue between their new character and the existing characters to lighten the mood at times which is a big ask of the writers.

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Omg I hate what they have done with mysaria, I’m hoping somehow it would change. It’s really bad, I felt like she was more a Varys/tyanna type in the books.

everything else was fine. I felt like I was watching a weird medieval Jurassic park scene with Otto on the bridge. 

Rhaenyra was absolutely amazing, crab scenes looked cool. I have no idea what to think of the villain coming, looks cringe. I also like the portrayal of daemon and rhaenyra

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33 minutes ago, Crona said:

Omg I hate what they have done with mysaria, I’m hoping somehow it would change. It’s really bad, I felt like she was more a Varys/tyanna type in the books.

Totally agree. It’s been a while since I read the book but I was excited to see Lady Misery in action. This is not what I signed up for. I was thinking I was misremembering stuff.

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Lots of small thinks that I didn't like on that one. I enjoyed it much less than the first one.

Good things:

  • Laena was the highlight of the episode. That actress was gold.
  • I like how Alicent keeps scratching her nails. It's a nice character-building trait that adds depth and can lead to interesting placed. I imagine that at the end of the story she'll resemble Lady Hornwood. :wacko:
  • The way how the have built up the alliance between Corlys and Daemon has been nice. And I loved how Daemon said that he was the only one allowed to speak ill of his brother.

Things I didn't like:

  • The opening credits are unimaginative, uninformative, and dispensable. If they had to use the same music, I would have appreciated at least a different variation or another orchestral arrangement. This will clearly be one aspect where GoT is miles ahead of HotD. I expected much, much better.
  • The main conflict of the episode was ill-devised and ill-executed. I don't find credible that Daemon has been allowed to disobey the direct orders of his king instructing him to go to Runestone, use the City Watch as if they were his personal force, and seize the ancestral seat of the Targaryens. How can Viserys keep his nonchalant attitude after that. I don't think taking an egg is really worse than what he had already done.
  • There were a lot of missed opportunities in Alicent's 'seduction' of Viserys. I would have liked to have Alicent use personal info that Rhaenyra had confided about her father, or see Otto give some instructions on how to best bend the king's will.
  • The final scene could have been written by D&D, as in there were a lot of absurdities just for the sake of generating a SHOCK moment. Viserys deciding to anounce Rhaenyra's friend without telling her beforehand? Alicent being present in a Small Council session without anyone wondering why? Needlessly insulting the Velaryons by sharing the news with them at the same time as everybody else?
  • I agree with the opinion that the character of Mysaria is the weakest link in the show so far. It's not really working very well as Daemon's lover, and I fear that it'll work even worse master of whispers. And really, that accent is painful.
  • Not sure if Rhaenyra alone should be allowed to chose the Kingsguard new member without consulting anyone. And even if she had been fixed on choosing Cole, I don't think she would be fool enough to insult the rest of the candidates (loudly asking if there isn't anyone with actual fighting experience, and refusing to even consider four candidates that had traveled all the way to King's Landing for the opportunity.
  • I like the detail of having the dragonkeepers full of burns. I don't like to see them dressed as beggars, specially when they are not occupied on their daily work but on a semi-official trip to Dragonstone. And I don't really see the point of having them speak Valyrian. It gives me the impression that someone thinks that you can't make a worthy fantasy show without including a given quota of made-up languages.

Random thoughts:

  • In the Red Keep they must have a miniaturist on payroll with no much work to do. How else would they bother to use those chess figures in the selection of the kingsguard. How useless were them, when the knights were all dressed in their colors and accompanied by standard-bearers?
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I'm here for the dragons - very excited that Vhagar (Visenya is my favourite Targ) was mentioned.  I am really looking forward to cute little Laena finding her and becoming her rider.  They have to do Vhagar right - she is the largest dragon we will ever see.  Can't wait!   

I'm also looking forward to poor tragic Sunfyre - who will be glorious initially.

Humanwise, I'm loving Viserys (a sane Targaryen!), Rhaenyra and Daemon.  The writers and actors have a lot of scope to develop these characters, and I love what they are doing so far.

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I like her performance, for whatever it's worth. The accent doesn't bother me, it remains consistent, near as I can tell. The only issue, I'd say, is that later on a thing happens with Mysaria that may be some subtly-considered characterization... or could just be "Inscrutable character doing the inexplicable", depending on how generous you are to the writers.

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