[Spoilers] Episode 102 Discussion

[DMC]

17 minutes ago, Fez said:

Gotta make use of the guy's retainer in-between Warhammer 40K: Old Valyria edition commissions for the King; otherwise it's just wasted money

So you're saying King Viserys is getting hosed by this guy?

My gods....

[zajaz]

It's a good thing this season will be the only one doing such long jumps in time, but even so, time seems to fly by real fast. It's telling that once the Dance begins, we'll see these big events in only 2-3 years time, while we know this season is doing at the very least a 10+ year jump in time.

Some people might feel a little weird out when they watch season 2 and see slow time goes by compared to this one.

Also, isn't there an old writing tip that says that you should start your story as close to the main action as possibe? The success of the series despite doing these jumps, to me, proves what I've always suspected: most writing advices (except 'keep writing') is BS.

Edited August 29, 2022 by zajaz

[Lord of Oldstones]

Unless they change the starting Valyrian bloody streets that i thought to be that disreputable place of Kings landing that Daemon loves & Davos hails from( i always forget the name of this place) into map of westeros again it would be annoying.

Laena is such cute child. I liked her taking interest in Vagar. It also gave impression to me that Dragons are exclusive to Targaryen still and she later caughts the wild Vagar by being at right place at right time later? But for that, have to see if or how they explain about Laenor and Seasmoke. If its Meyles she will need male dragon for making egg.But wasnt there switching gender thing? Dragon procreation make me confused.

That line of Rhaenys being his fave cousin was so hilarious. As Aemma is their other cousin and there's no one else (Saera sons or any other bastards are very very lowborn to be considered a relation).
She is his only living cousin yet "she's always been his favorite" how convinient. I like felt him trolling her.

I couldnt understand what Mysaria was talking as wasnt watching with subtitle.She's far cry from book character. There was no need to sanitize her.

Its was very bratish of Rhaenyra to not acknowlege rest of candidates and they're presumbly of good house like those Caron( I like they name his father as Royce Caron,also father to Lady Baratheon) & Mallister. Rhaenys kind of puts her in place later as she was watching it all. Rhaenys was much more capable to be Queen than any version of Rhaenyra or her father.

Also to me that Cole actor looks a lot like Viserys. Like he could have played Aegon II.

[Daeron the Daring]

11 minutes ago, zajaz said:

while we know this season is doing at the very least a 10+ year jump in time.

Based on how Aegon and Aemond look, they do not look to be 8 and 6, nor 18 and 16.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Daeron the Daring

[zajaz]

45 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

Its was very bratish of Rhaenyra to not acknowlege rest of candidates and they're presumbly of good house like those Caron( I like they name his father as Royce Caron,also father to Lady Baratheon) & Mallister.

I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who saw Rhaenyra coming across as a little bratty in that scene. I get that Otto was an asshole to her and that the wanted to show him she is smarter and less meek than he thinks, but the way the scene played out, it seems like she picked Criston Cole more for his good lucks than for whetever experience he had in real combat. I wonder if she would have picked another knight with more experience than Cole, were said knight a middle-aged and plain looking man. Also, does the she have the power to choose a KG without need for her father or the Small Council to evaluate and ratify said choice?

Edited August 29, 2022 by zajaz

[Fez]

13 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Also, does the she have the power to choose a KG without need for her father or the Small Council to evaluate and ratify said choice?

IIRC, in the previous scene when her father sends her away from the small council he says that the choice is hers. Since he's the king, that's presumably the end of it.

[zajaz]

7 minutes ago, Fez said:

IIRC, in the previous scene when her father sends her away from the small council he says that the choice is hers. Since he's the king, that's presumably the end of it.

Oh, yeah, that's right. Well, in that case, to paraphrase (Show) Jaime: 'Poor Viserys Targaryen. Good man, terrible management'.

Edited August 29, 2022 by zajaz

[slant]

24 minutes ago, zajaz said:

I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who saw Rhaenyra coming across as a little bratty in that scene. I get that Otto was an asshole to her and that the wanted to show him she was smarter and less meek than he thinks, but the way the scene played out, it seems like she picked Criston Cole more for his good lucks than for whetever experience he had in real combat. I wonder if she would have picked another knight with more experience than Cole, were said knight a middle-aged and plain looking man. Also, does the she have the power to choose a KG without need for her father or the Small Council to evaluate and ratify said choice?

Hmm... There was Otto to check her choice, which he did. Also, since Otto and Harrold Westerling have selected the potential candidates, presumably all of them have been 'pre-approved'.

What is a little weird is how Rhaenyra's is asked to choose the Kingsguard as a way to take her out of the small council discussion, and we move to the less important of the two discussions. When the issue of what is to be done in the Stepstones is addressed again, it is funny how Corlys proposes the marriage to Laena as a solution to the troubles in the Stepstones? Sure it is disguised as a solution for how weak Viserys appears or is perceived... but the show does cut away at a very interesting point, leaving the audience hanging about what actually takes place between Corlys, Viserys and the rest of the Small Council. Otto should have been there, instead of overseeing Rhaenyra's dedcision. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

42 minutes ago, zajaz said:

I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who saw Rhaenyra coming across as a little bratty in that scene. I get that Otto was an asshole to her and that the wanted to show him she is smarter and less meek than he thinks, but the way the scene played out, it seems like she picked Criston Cole more for his good lucks than for whetever experience he had in real combat.

She's supposed to be somewhat bratty, though.

[zajaz]

20 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

She's supposed to be somewhat bratty, though.

Not according to some, that's all I'm going to say.

Also, re-watching the episode, Matt Smith is doing an amazing job as Daemon, but for some reason I always imagined Daemon having a deeper voice, like Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's. If I close my eyes, Matt Smith's voice kinda reminds me of Iwan Rheon's Ramsay.

Oh, and the ending scene with Craghas Drahar is beautifully shot, but... gods, what a stupid nickname. I know the writers are trying to make people take the moniker of 'crabfeeder' seriously (and succeeding, in some cases), but to me it feels like they are trying too hard. Then again, I suppose this is on GRRM; some of the nickname he picks for his characters are kinda hilarious (and not in the way he probably intended).

Edited August 29, 2022 by zajaz

[The Bard of Banefort]

I don’t know, guys, to me it seemed pretty obvious that Viserys was attracted to Alicent, and that was why he chose her to be his next wife. I wasn’t because of a lack of options. 

One thing this show is making me realize is how the multiple storylines was part of GOT’s appeal. Even though we’ll be getting cameos from other houses, I do miss seeing what’s going on in the rest of Westeros.

[DMC]

With all the complaints I've seen about Viserys neglecting to tell Rhaenyra about the Alicent engagement before the Small Council meeting, wanted to further explain why I thought that was probably the episode's best characterization.  Early in the ep, we see Viserys ask/order Alicent about not sharing their meetings with Rhaenyra.  Clearly, Viserys is worried about Rhaenyra finding out about Alicent even being considered as Viserys' next wife.

Then we get the discussion between Viserys and Rhaenyra, where Viserys guilts Rhaenyra into saying repeatedly she understands it's his duty -- but is also under the apparent assumption they are referring to Laena.  That is indeed the opportune moment for Viserys to tell Rhaenyra he's actually chose Alicent, and the fact he doesn't is exactly the point.

At least in my experience, this is very typical of most family dynamics.  You can call it stupid or cowardly or both or something else, but Viserys being unable to tell Rhaenyra personally and resolving the issue is, to me, very common family dysfunction/lack of communication - obviously exacerbated by the royalty/succession context.  By having Rhaenyra find out at the small council meeting, Viserys is assured all she can do at that point is storm out and protest later, at which point Viserys will say something like "well we discussed it earlier and you didn't raise any objections."  Both my parents, one sibling, and myself have done similar things to each other over the years.

Moreover, it illustrates Viserys' reticence to confrontation and allowing things to fester, which is clearly his primary flaw in the books that precipitates the civil war.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Called it!

https://jezebel.com/anti-asian-racism-seeps-into-colorblind-casting-on-hou-1849468764
 

https://www.inverse.com/culture/rhaenyra-alicent-queerbaiting-house-of-the-dragon/amp

[RumHam]

I don't have a problem with Mysaria. It's still early she can grow into a mistress of whispers type character when there's cause for her to fill that role. I think it'd also be fine if history had an impression of her that just wasn't who she was at all. Vilify the mysterious foreign woman.

[Ran]

23 minutes ago, DMC said:

Early in the ep, we see Viserys ask/order Alicent about not sharing their meetings with Rhaenyra.  Clearly, Viserys is worried about Rhaenyra finding out about Alicent even being considered as Viserys' next wife.

. The point is made in the episode that he and Rhaenyra have hardly talked in the six months since her mother's death, and I think if she knew that he was actually talking to Alicent instead... it'd make Rhaenyra feel badly that her friend is more approachable by her father than she is. I think that's what he meant when he said Rhaenyra wouldn't understand, that it was easier for him to talk to Alicent than to her during his grief. I'm not sure marrying Alicent was at all in the back of his mind for much of that time. It was only when they started to push Laena at him that it dawned on him that Alicent became a possibility for him.

I definitely have no problem with him just going with his feelings in the moment, and I also think he wildly misjudged how Rhaenyra would take it. He thought she'd be pleased that it was Alicent, her best friend, which... well, yeah, wildly misjudged is putting it mildly.

 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Ran said:

I think if she knew that he was actually talking to Alicent instead... it'd make Rhaenyra feel badly that her friend is more approachable by her father than she is. I think that's what he meant when he said Rhaenyra wouldn't understand, that it was easier for him to talk to Alicent than to her during his grief. I'm not sure marrying Alicent was at all in the back of his mind for much of that time.

I dunno, I prefer to think of Viserys as less naive than this.  Outwardly/consciously, yes, he may tell himself (and indeed does basically tell Alicent) he's just worried about it because he can't communicate with Rhaenyra since Aemma's death.  But at least subconsciously I like assume he knew what the more frequent meetings with Alicent were really about.

[C.T. Phipps]

I did my review of the show with some of my thoughts here:

https://beforewegoblog.com/house-of-the-dragon-1x02-the-rogue-prince/

Overall, it really does suffer from a lack of humor.

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

The best stuff is plot related and what it reveals about character actions which is run of the mill stuff.

For me, far and away the best bit, the bit of dialog that is affecting for the listener, which tells so much about the character, comes from Myseria -- when she tells Daemon she's there, she's with him, because what she wants more than anything is to be in a situation in which she feels safe and not afraid.  She wasn't looking for wealth or marriage but freedom from fear.

The objective of immigrants and slaves from time immemorial.

 

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Overall, it really does suffer from a lack of humor.

Yeah I think this is a universally agreed-upon and glaring weakness.  Smith can carry some of that load - as he did in the pilot - but not when he's off on Dragonstone all episode acting like a five-year-old.  Other than that...they could definitely utilize Considine/Viserys' inherent good-nature, and/or Best's Rhaenys as the Olenna analogue, but they haven't yet.

Thinking about the marriage thing more, I don't have a problem with most of it.  Viserys being disgusted by the Laena offer but choosing Alicent - even though there's not actually that much of a difference - made sense.  Otto's more subtle gambit working and Corlys' aggressive approach failing made sense.  And Viserys neglecting to tell Rhaenyra before the small council meeting (whether consciously or subconsciously) made sense.

One thing I haven't seen discussed though is why doesn't Viserys counter Corlys' offer by proposing the much more obvious Laenor/Rhaenyra match?  Granted, in the context of the episode he's probably worried that will piss Rhaenyra off too.  But with Rhaenyra aged-up and just established as heir shouldn't there be almost just as much pressure for her to marry as there is for Viserys to re-marry?

[C.T. Phipps]

I feel like they should have designated one of the undeveloped characters like Beesbury or Strong to be the resident jokester.

  

7 minutes ago, DMC said:

Thinking about the marriage thing more, I don't have a problem with most of it.  Viserys being disgusted by the Laena offer but choosing Alicent - even though there's not actually that much of a difference - made sense. 

Well, one is a thirteen year old played by a thirteen year old.

One is a fifteen year old, played by a twenty-two year old.

Quote

One thing I haven't seen discussed though is why doesn't Viserys counter Corlys' offer by proposing the much more obvious Laenor/Rhaenyra match?  Granted, in the context of the episode he's probably worried that will piss Rhaenyra off too.  But with Rhaenyra aged-up and just established as heir shouldn't there be almost just as much pressure for her to marry as there is for Viserys to re-marry?

I mean, the obvious answer is one that the episode repeatedly hammers home: "Viserys is a bad king."

Edited August 29, 2022 by C.T. Phipps