Impending Mass Starvation in Westeros

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

17 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I hope she doesn't end up going down the Fire and Blood route, at least not without sufficient build-up and a good reason. I think she wants to maintain an idealised image of her family in her mind because it means her conscience can rest easier when it comes to taking Westeros. But deep down she knows it can't last and she will have to face the truth. In order to have a stable and prosperous realm she must acknowledge the wrongs her family inflicted on others and build bridges, not burn them.

Problem is that she seems to have decided that dragons don't plant trees and to choose violence to deal with Meeren's problems. 

The discovery that the slaver cities are attacking Meereen will certainely not help.

And her advisors will likely only worsen her hardening behavior, with the Taterred Prince, Moqorro and above all Tyrion, who's in cruel and vengeful mode right now.

[Craving Peaches]

30 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

And her advisors will likely only worsen her hardening behavior, with the Taterred Prince, Moqorro and above all Tyrion, who's in cruel and vengeful mode right now.

Yes, this is certainly not a good development, Ser Barristan seems to be her only advisor who isn't revenge obsessed or going to treat Daenerys like a prophesised saviour.

[sifth]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yes, this is certainly not a good development, Ser Barristan seems to be her only advisor who isn't revenge obsessed or going to treat Daenerys like a prophesised saviour.

I hope she gets Jorah back. He seemed to walk the fine line between honor and reason, when it came to giving advice.

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

I hope she gets Jorah back. He seemed to walk the fine line between honor and reason, when it came to giving advice.

Yes, Jorah's advice was mostly sensible and useful, though he was biased against the Starks. I think Daenerys needs advisers who are level-headed and don't hold grudges, especially against people/houses in Westeros, or it will make finding good allies and avoiding unnecessary conflict much harder.

[The Sleeper]

Given Martin's propensity for exaggeration, it is probable that between 120% and 150% will starve to death.

Seriously though, Martin devoted much of one of Jon's chapters to the supply of food, leading to one of the plot points in his arc as well as constant and consistent mentions of the availability of food being either a current issue or a serious concern. Moreover it is already snowing as far as King's Landing and it is bound to get worst, meaning that there won't be new harvests from the majority of the world. In fact, the only consistent sources of new food would be fishing and perhaps agricultural products from southern lands, like Dorne, Volantys and the Summer Islands.

On top of that there will be widespread warfare and a plague. I don't think the allusions to the four horsemen of the apocalypse are a coincidence. These situations will also only exacerbate one another, meaning the scarcity of resources will cause further violence and reduce accessibility, while preventing any effective organised response to the coming greyscale epidemic. So the name of the game will be survival and specifically the bare essentials of it. 

[SeanF]

The people in charge are generally not at all concerned about the smallfolk starving.  As of TWOW, the lords of the Vale are organising a tourney with a sixty course banquet.  

During ACOK, Cersei, Tyrion, and their court were merrily feeding their faces as the poor died of hunger.

[Craving Peaches]

10 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The people in charge are generally not at all concerned about the smallfolk starving.  As of TWOW, the lords of the Vale are organising a tourney with a sixty course banquet.  

During ACOK, Cersei, Tyrion, and their court were merrily feeding their faces as the poor died of hunger.

As the peasants start dying in droves they might regret this attitude as no smallfolk = no taxes. If spring ever comes the demand for peasants will likely outstrip supply and they may have to make generous concessions.

[SeanF]

40 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

As the peasants start dying in droves they might regret this attitude as no smallfolk = no taxes. If spring ever comes the demand for peasants will likely outstrip supply and they may have to make generous concessions.

It is short-sighted.

You can bet they will do what the English upper classes did after the Black Death.  Pass laws to hold down wages and tie the peasants to the land, then break those laws when they realise they can't get enough people to work their own estates, then find themselves on the receiving end of peasant uprisings, before finally acknowledging that they'll just have to bow to market forces.

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

The people in charge are generally not at all concerned about the smallfolk starving.  As of TWOW, the lords of the Vale are organising a tourney with a sixty course banquet.  

 

How on earth do people stuff themselves with that much food? 

Is it just that they're douches, and want bragging rights for a sixty course banquet, or are they just idiots?

[SeanF]

10 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

How on earth do people stuff themselves with that much food? 

Is it just that they're douches, and want bragging rights for a sixty course banquet, or are they just idiots?

I expect that most of them just take small samples.  But, they're certainly douches.  Being able to feast, while the country goes hungry, is another way of distinguishing themselves from the smallfolk.

[The Commentator]

Food is scarce during normal winters. The longer the winter, the worse the problem. That is why Bowen Marsh was right to object to bringing the wildlings in. The starvation will be worse in the north. The suffering will be short though. Jon will open the gates for the Others. The people of the north will become wights and Jon will be their king. The king of winter, himself an ice zombie and servant of the Others.

Food and supplies will be difficult because the iron bank is not likely to extend credit. Robert, Robb Stark, Cersei, Euron, Jon Snow, and Petyr really brought Westeros down. The only hope is to find help from overseas from someone who is not interested in only making a profit. Somebody who has dragons. 

[Craving Peaches]

35 minutes ago, Kalikrates said:

Food and supplies will be difficult because the iron bank is not likely to extend credit.

 

37 minutes ago, Kalikrates said:

That is why Bowen Marsh was right to object to bringing the wildlings in.

The Iron Bank has just extended credit to the watch under Lord Commander Jon Snow, allowing him to purchase more food which will help with feeding the wildlings.

37 minutes ago, Kalikrates said:

Jon will open the gates for the Others. The people of the north will become wights and Jon will be their king. The king of winter, himself an ice zombie and servant of the Others.

Any proof for this? Jon has been doing an awful lot fighting against the Others. Why would he randomly switch sides? It seems like your conclusion is based only on your dislike of Jon.

39 minutes ago, Kalikrates said:

The only hope is to find help from overseas from someone who is not interested in only making a profit. Somebody who has dragons. 

'Dragons plant no trees' does not sound like the words of someone concerned with feeding the kingdoms...

41 minutes ago, Kalikrates said:

Robb Stark

How did Robb bring Westeros down? The issues with debt etc. that plague the Iron Throne have nothing to do with him.

[The Mourning Knight]

This will undoubtedly be the backdrop throughout the novel or just the span of winter. However long that lasts…

As to where WE are going to feel the strain… I expect to see a lot more of what we got from the last two Asha chapters. Especially wherever there is an army or a besieged castle. 

I also imagine the food shortage to manifest as an antagonist itself for whoever is sitting on the Iron Throne. Probably a situation reminiscent of conditions in aCoK before Stannis attacked. I bet the powers from the Reach will flex their provisions as a way to assert control. 

But, sure. There are going to be a lot of hungry people in Westeros. 

[Darth Sidious]

Winter is the time when things die. Nature takes a rest in our world. In their world winter brings death, cold, and darkness. The coming deaths are due to human activities and decisions. The War Of The Five Kings, Stannis’ war with Roose, Jon’s escalating conflict with Ramsay, all are counterproductive to the survival of humans. All are driven by revenge and the frailties of the human heart. The people who were in key positions to help the people betrayed their responsibilities. They failed the people. Storing the harvests and uniting Westeros would help many people survive. But the leaders put love and family first over duty.  
 

The only answer is to migrate to Essos and Sothoryos. 

[Craving Peaches]

10 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said:

The only answer is to migrate to Essos and Sothoryos. 

Essos maybe, when the wars are over and slavery is abolished, but Sothoryos? It sounds awful, full of horrible diseases and slavers.

[Darth Sidious]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

Essos maybe, when the wars are over and slavery is abolished, but Sothoryos? It sounds awful, full of horrible diseases and slavers.

Diseases and slavers. The Others practice slavery. They turn people to wights. Sothoryos gives a chance to survive. 

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Darth Sidious said:

Sothoryos gives a chance to survive. 

Does it really? It may be preferable to the Others, but it is still inhabited by slavers and there is a good chance you will catch some horrific disease. Death may be a preferable alternative.

[The Sleeper]

Well, eventually the Long Night will fall, so everything dies, everywhere. 

[sifth]

Are the Others a threat to the entire world. I often wondered how they could get to Essos or the rest of the world for that matter, without boats.

[The Sleeper]

Yes. I don't know why anyone assumed it was a local phenomenon in the first place, but the world of ice and fire makes it quite explicit that it is not.

The Others in and of themselves don't make that much of a difference in the big picture. Winter and the Long Night eventually kills everything.

ETA

The Others could get around on an iceberg drawn by undead whales or something, or they could, you know, have actual boats.