Impending Mass Starvation in Westeros

[Craving Peaches]

3 minutes ago, sifth said:

Which is something I always found weird. Especially when he has no issue having Queen characters as POV's.

It is odd because Daenerys is Queen in her own right, not just a consort, she is a female king but she still gets a POV. Cersei is excusable as she is technically still just a regent, but Daenerys seems to be the exception to the rule. There has been speculation Jon will no longer be a POV when he comes back, which I thought could have something to do with him becoming a king of some sort, though it could also be for other reasons.

[TheLastWolf]

On 9/4/2022 at 5:36 AM, Rondo said:

So were Catelyn, Robb Stark, Sansa, Tywin, and others.  Everyday was almost a feast compared to the peasants.  Mismanagement and complete incompetence from the ruling class is why Westeros is not prepared.  By ruling class, that means Stark, Baratheon, Lannister, and Greyjoy.  

Conveniently Freys and Boltons omitted, but right, they were miserly sods.

And incl the Starks is proof of your rational mind, or the lack thereof.

What about your faery godmother queen Dany, unborn dog in honey while freed slaves whored themselves for bread? 

[TheLastWolf]

10 hours ago, sifth said:

Robb just feels too similar to a Ned clone though. I wish we got inside his head, but from what little we do get of him, he ignores most good advice given to him. This wasn’t true in the first book, but it happens all over the place in the second and third.

 

7 hours ago, sifth said:

Robb's the only character in the series who probably should have been a POV. I feel I would have cared about his death more had he been a main character and I knew his feelings and motivations.

 

7 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I agree, if I recall correctly GRRM said he regretted not having Robb as a POV. But maybe there is a reason no king has a POV, at least now.

Its so complicated already

[Craving Peaches]

4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Its so complicated already

I really want to know what it means. Why can we not see things from the King's point of view? Or is there no meaning at all and it's just the way things worked out?

[TheLastWolf]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I really want to know what it means. Why can we not see things from the King's point of view? Or is there no meaning at all and it's just the way things worked out?

Embrace nihilism

Except Robb I really don't miss POVs of any other 'kings'. Dunno y. Maybe George felt something similar. I bet you want to be in Renly's head .

[Craving Peaches]

31 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

I bet you want to be in Renly's head .

Yes I do. Sadly it is almost certain that Renly is dead, so I will settle for Loras or Margaery POVs. Even if they have to be in the Prologue or Epilogue, it will be worth it for me.

[Springwatch]

On 8/31/2022 at 3:41 PM, Craving Peaches said:

I am also a bit concerned with Daenerys' line 'Dragons plant no trees'. Wrong! This is what she should be doing. The produce grown in the warm climate of Essos can then be shipped over to help the hungry in Westeros. Things like dried dates etc. stuff that lasts a long time is perfect for winter. 

Regardless she will need a food source for her army. There will likely not be a lot for her left in Westeros. She should get as much food as possible from the East and take it with her west.

To be fair to Dany, she's done the planting already: "We are replanting, but it takes seven years before an olive tree begins to bear, and thirty years before it can truly be called productive [...]"

ETA

I doubt the horticultural advice she's been getting, but anyway, she's also planting beans, which crop in the first year, and can be dried and stored.

I think she's also probably the leader that thinks the most about feeding people. Will she switch over to fire and destruction? I don't know, but it's not really been set up yet.

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 9/3/2022 at 8:06 PM, Rondo said:

So were Catelyn, Robb Stark, Sansa, Tywin, and others.  Everyday was almost a feast compared to the peasants.  Mismanagement and complete incompetence from the ruling class is why Westeros is not prepared.  By ruling class, that means Stark, Baratheon, Lannister, and Greyjoy.  

Jon, against the advice of his more experienced officers, brought the Wildlings to the south of the Wall. More people to feed. Very bad idea.  

[Springwatch]

16 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon, against the advice of his more experienced officers, brought the Wildlings to the south of the Wall. More people to feed. Very bad idea.  

I was reading these chapters lately and they're just not written in a realistic style. (GRRM is having fun with his starvation scenario.) Jon hides the fact that he can get a loan from the Iron Bank, and tells his officers and allies that the wildlings will pay for imported food with their confiscated valuables. The Wull/Flint/whoever points out that the wildling wealth isn't much and would only buy a few sacks of corn. And then ... the conversation just moves on. Odd.

We never hear how the Iron Bank expects Jon to repay the loan, which comes due in the spring, just after the environmental disaster. Odd again.

[Loose Bolt]

3 hours ago, Springwatch said:

We never hear how the Iron Bank expects Jon to repay the loan, which comes due in the spring, just after the environmental disaster. Odd again.

Iron Bank would not be very happy if all of their potential customers are zombies who will not pay their debts. Besides victorious WWs will not pay those either. So giving money to NW is very good investment for IB.

[Craving Peaches]

15 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon, against the advice of his more experienced officers, brought the Wildlings to the south of the Wall. More people to feed. Very bad idea.

Well the other option is leaving them all to die and so strengthening the actual threat. If Jon leaves them there that's tens of thousands more wights for the Others' army. So I think Jon made the better decision. The loan from the Iron Bank will help with food.

[SeanF]

18 hours ago, Springwatch said:

To be fair to Dany, she's done the planting already: "We are replanting, but it takes seven years before an olive tree begins to bear, and thirty years before it can truly be called productive [...]"

ETA

I doubt the horticultural advice she's been getting, but anyway, she's also planting beans, which crop in the first year, and can be dried and stored.

I think she's also probably the leader that thinks the most about feeding people. Will she switch over to fire and destruction? I don't know, but it's not really been set up yet.

Meereen is full of food.  It’s problems are disease, deliberately spread by the slavers, low wages, in part due to the influx of freedmen from Astapor and Yunkai,  and terrorism.

[SeanF]

17 hours ago, Springwatch said:

I was reading these chapters lately and they're just not written in a realistic style. (GRRM is having fun with his starvation scenario.) Jon hides the fact that he can get a loan from the Iron Bank, and tells his officers and allies that the wildlings will pay for imported food with their confiscated valuables. The Wull/Flint/whoever points out that the wildling wealth isn't much and would only buy a few sacks of corn. And then ... the conversation just moves on. Odd.

We never hear how the Iron Bank expects Jon to repay the loan, which comes due in the spring, just after the environmental disaster. Odd again.

IIRC, timber in The Gift is security for the loan.  Timber matters a lot to a maritime power like Braavos.

[SeanF]

On 9/4/2022 at 9:31 PM, sifth said:

I hate Robb, in the books, but I don’t ever recall him eating any lavish feasts during his brief time as a king.

I’m sure Robb made sure he had enough to eat, and prioritised the army.  But, you’re right, he did not live lavishly.

The Lannisters are pretty in your face about  enjoying their comforts, while others starve.

[Springwatch]

23 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Iron Bank would not be very happy if all of their potential customers are zombies who will not pay their debts. Besides victorious WWs will not pay those either. So giving money to NW is very good investment for IB.

It is, but they would call it a grant. I don't suppose the IB wants the reputation of being forgiving over debt. It does make the IB a lot more interesting though - they have the big picture before almost anyone else.

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

IIRC, timber in The Gift is security for the loan.  Timber matters a lot to a maritime power like Braavos.

A reasonable solution; I don't recall it though. Not even if there is a lot of forest good for timber in the Gift - it might be mostly moorland/bog/farmland, I don't know. But there are a lot of trees north of the Wall, and in the North generally, so timber should be plentiful and cheap. Certainly the Watch hasn't been profiting from timber, otherwise it would have a bit of cash of its own. So, I still don't know. I suspect GRRM is just freewheeling on fantasy, for some reason.