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Real life example of why Rhaenyra wanted a battle tested King's Guard


Ser Not Appearing

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Perhaps this is frivolous but it's the first thing I thought of when I watched the video. It's a great parallel to the idea of Tourney Knights on the King's Guard.

In this story, a bull jumped over the barrier and escaped the demonstration area of a rodeo. It then careened around with access to the stands / spectators. It was quite a risk that someone could be trampled or gored. Many people at that rodeo had trained the skills required to subdue the bull. In fact, the entire idea of rodeo is much like a tourney for showcasing flashy skills. But it took someone who was able to think on his feet in a moment of panic and lasso the bull. Just having the skill in a vacuum is not the same as being able to employ the skill when it's needed for survival.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/watch-bull-runs-into-rodeo-crowd-at-florida-state-fair-after-escaping-from-pen

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3 hours ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

Perhaps this is frivolous but it's the first thing I thought of when I watched the video. It's a great parallel to the idea of Tourney Knights on the King's Guard.

In this story, a bull jumped over the barrier and escaped the demonstration area of a rodeo. It then careened around with access to the stands / spectators. It was quite a risk that someone could be trampled or gored. Many people at that rodeo had trained the skills required to subdue the bull. In fact, the entire idea of rodeo is much like a tourney for showcasing flashy skills. But it took someone who was able to think on his feet in a moment of panic and lasso the bull. Just having the skill in a vacuum is not the same as being able to employ the skill when it's needed for survival.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/watch-bull-runs-into-rodeo-crowd-at-florida-state-fair-after-escaping-from-pen

Good point.

It was very wise of Rhaenyra to want combat veterans. But it was also shortsighted because I don't think a knight from a nobler house (i.e. Mallister) would presume to the outrageous behavior taken by the common-born Cole. 

Quite the conundrum: wise and shortsighted

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7 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Good point.

It was very wise of Rhaenyra to want combat veterans. But it was also shortsighted because I don't think a knight from a nobler house (i.e. Mallister) would presume to the outrageous behavior taken by the common-born Cole. 

Quite the conundrum: wise and shortsighted

 

Practical versus streetwise, perhaps?

It certainly betrayed some political naivety. That's not terrible in a vacuum but the problems that come from such a quality grow in proportion to how much and how often the quality manifests in the character.

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3 hours ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

Perhaps this is frivolous but it's the first thing I thought of when I watched the video. It's a great parallel to the idea of Tourney Knights on the King's Guard.

In this story, a bull jumped over the barrier and escaped the demonstration area of a rodeo. It then careened around with access to the stands / spectators. It was quite a risk that someone could be trampled or gored. Many people at that rodeo had trained the skills required to subdue the bull. In fact, the entire idea of rodeo is much like a tourney for showcasing flashy skills. But it took someone who was able to think on his feet in a moment of panic and lasso the bull. Just having the skill in a vacuum is not the same as being able to employ the skill when it's needed for survival.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/watch-bull-runs-into-rodeo-crowd-at-florida-state-fair-after-escaping-from-pen

Florida’s a lot crazier than Westeros though.

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I think it's drawing an interesting bit of characterization from Otto, actually. Not Rhaenyra.

Otto doesn't seem to understand hard power exists.

He only sees soft power.

When Daemon was just going to straight up murder him and his men with a dragon he had no moves. Because Otto never thinks about war or battle when he's plotting as he's a career politician. Rhaenyra does because she's a Targaryen. It's why he's so out of his depth in the Dance because this is not his area of expertise.

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I think you see with Otto's priorities there that he is blind to the prospect of real war, real danger. For him the Kingsguard game is just a way to show favor to various noble houses. The fact that, in the end, those men must be prepared to die for the king and the royal family is not exactly on his mind.

Rhaenyra certainly channels Visenya and Jaehaerys I there when they appointed their (first) Kingsguard. And that's a good thing.

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

It was very wise of Rhaenyra to want combat veterans. But it was also shortsighted because I don't think a knight from a nobler house (i.e. Mallister) would presume to the outrageous behavior taken by the common-born Cole.

I think Cole had great potential as KG. The problem is that he gets very much drawn into court intrigues and stuff.

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It's been so long since I read the book that I can hardly comment on that characterization but, yes, so far show Otto has been depicted as an even-keeled, wise-seeming and politically adept man ... who may also be a win the battle lose the war influence overall. His vision is too westeros internal and his interests in protecting the realm have a too-strong vein of self interest.

I suspect that description only partly describes what I'm actually trying to say. Ah well, it's not the first time.

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Otto in FIRE AND BLOOD:

Spoiler

1. Otto, of course, is one of the ones who realizes just how utterly fucked up the situation is when Aemond kills Rhaneyra's son as it pretty much guarantees that there's going to be a civil war over his grandson's ascension. He's not prepared for this.

2. Otto completely misreads said grandson and is summarily stripped of his office as Hand of the King by the fact Aegon is a bloodthirsty warrior who wants to engage Rhaenyra's people directly.

3. Otto ends up correctly predicting he'll be the first one with his head cut clean off in the end.

 

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On 9/2/2022 at 3:14 PM, Lord Varys said:

Rhaenyra certainly channels Visenya and Jaehaerys I there when they appointed their (first) Kingsguard. And that's a good thing.

That's a very good thing.

If the maester conspiracy Barbrey Dustin and Marwyn were talking about is true on any level, then it's no wonder why Rhaenys was passed over twice and why

Spoiler

the powers-that-be in King's Landing and Oldtown were so fiercely anti-Rhaenyra and anti-Daemon. Rhaenyra, Daemon and Rhaenys are all unapologetic dragonlords much in the vein as Visenya, Jaehaerys I, Aegon I, and -- dare I say -- Maegor.

 

On 9/2/2022 at 6:45 PM, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

Bioleninism in a nutshell. Like what the current US regime is doing.

Bioleninism?!

Where'd you get that one from?

Not saying you're wrong. I just need it explained further to me.

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17 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

That's a very good thing.

If the maester conspiracy Barbrey Dustin and Marwyn were talking about is true on any level, then it's no wonder why Rhaenys was passed over twice and why

  Reveal hidden contents

the powers-that-be in King's Landing and Oldtown were so fiercely anti-Rhaenyra and anti-Daemon. Rhaenyra, Daemon and Rhaenys are all unapologetic dragonlords much in the vein as Visenya, Jaehaerys I, Aegon I, and -- dare I say -- Maegor.

 

Bioleninism?!

Where'd you get that one from?

Not saying you're wrong. I just need it explained further to me.

Bioleninism is the process of promoting party loyalists with no regard to competency. So you get uber loyal but incompetent party commissars instead of competent people in positions of power. The result is further degradation of every institution, services, economy, education, until you get disasters like Lysenkoism, Chernobyl and many other joyful things we can observe today.

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2 hours ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

Bioleninism is the process of promoting party loyalists with no regard to competency. So you get uber loyal but incompetent party commissars instead of competent people in positions of power. The result is further degradation of every institution, services, economy, education, until you get disasters like Lysenkoism, Chernobyl and many other joyful things we can observe today.

Interesting.

I've always understood bioleninism to be about how all social strife and political unrest is caused by inequality in physical looks (i.e. the beautiful people rule over people who are ugly and unfortunate). The people at the lower rungs of society are people who seen as genetically inferior because genetically superior people are taller, prettier, etc. Bioleninism - as I understood it - is when the "ugly" and "inferior" people rise up to seize control of the government and, after taking control of the government, start failing because there was some credence to how the previous rulers were more suited to rule.

But it's nice to see the two definitions dovetail into something that makes complete and total sense.

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