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Second House of a region


Lucia Targaryen
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What would you say are the second greatest houses of each region, at least before the Wot5K.

North - House Bolton

Vale - House Royce

Dorne - House Yronwood

Iron Islands - House Harlaw 

Reach - House Hightower 

Not sure about the other regions.

House Velaryon would have been before Robert's Rebellion but I'm not sure after that.

House Reyne before Tywin destroyed them so maybe House Marbrand after? 

House Mallister for the Riverlands?

House Caron for the Stormlands? As Lord of the Marches?

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For the North I'd say the second spot is disputed between houses Bolton and Manderly, with the Manderlys having been in the North for a shorter amount of time but having the benefits of being the richest vassal of the Starks, having White Harbor and the largest amount of knights in the North.

Edited by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9
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@Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 I'd say the Boltons control more land but the Manderlys are wealthier.

@Lucia Targaryen For the riverlands, House Frey has the most men. They are look down due to being "only" 6 centuries old and having gained their power through cunning taxes with their bridge. The characters have a clear biais against the Freys but in reality they are very powerful, most of the Great Houses of the riverlands lost power overtime due to their infighting meanwhile the Freys were doing their thing and slowly accumulated wealth and power.

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30 minutes ago, Lucia Targaryen said:

House Mallister for the Riverlands?

Riverlands could be House Blackwood, or one of the houses in charge of the larger towns in the region. It depends on what exactly counts as great. If it's just strength of arms, or prestige related. The Freys can raise a lot of men but I don't know if they would count as the second most powerful house in the Riverlands or not before the WotFK. It's hard to judge because I think we are only given numbers for the Freys, 4000 men total, 1000 knights.

34 minutes ago, Lucia Targaryen said:

House Caron for the Stormlands? As Lord of the Marches?

Perhaps House Swann? House Connington also seemed quite strong before all their lands were confiscated.

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4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Riverlands could be House Blackwood, or one of the houses in charge of the larger towns in the region. It depends on what exactly counts as great. If it's just strength of arms, or prestige related. The Freys can raise a lot of men but I don't know if they would count as the second most powerful house in the Riverlands or not before the WotFK. It's hard to judge because I think we are only given numbers for the Freys, 4000 men total, 1000 knights.

Perhaps House Swann? House Connington also seemed quite strong before all their lands were confiscated.

I agree that it’s House Swann. Even if House Connington was the second most powerful house once, it wouldn’t apply to the question since this is about pre-Wotfk

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The North: House Manderly. Sure, people can argue for House Bolton all they want, but in reality, the Boltons are where they are due to ruthlessness and cunning, not because of any intitutional advantages the House has. House Manderly has less land, but a lot more wealth, a very large army, a navy, control over a major population center in White Harbour. It's not an especially close comparison. The Manderlys probably couldn't rule the North in lieu of the Starks, but they don't seem to particularly want too since their angle is to set Rickon up as the Lord of Winterfell. 

The Riverlands: House Mallister, probably. The Freys are indisputably the most powerful house in the region right now, and the Tullys were never more than a middling power even as the ruling house. I guess the Mallisters are the second most powerful Riverlands house, but it all honestly seems like a wash to me. One thing about the Freys though is that they are ultimately victims of their own success. They are going to have a serious succession crisis upon the death of old Walder. 

The Vale: House Royce. They have the institutional clout, support from other Houses in the region, prestige. There is a reason Littlefinger is trying so hard to isolate them. They are a significant threat to his rule in the Vale.

The Westerlands: House Marbrand, possibly? They seem to have their shit together.

The Iron Islands: House Harlaw. Not only are they the wealthiest Iron Islands house, but they don't have the Greyjoy family curse of immense stupidity.

The Stormlands: House Swann. I'm going with the consensus on this one because I don't know that much about the relative strength of Stormlands houses. Everyone else is pretty much dwarfed by whoever controls Storms End, so I really don't think the question applies much for this region.

The Crownlands: House Rosby. They have considerable wealth. So I'm going with them.

The Reach. House Redwyne. They are wealthier than everyone except the Tyrells, they are safe enough on an easily defensible island, while simultaneuosly owning the largest navy in the Seven Kingdoms, allowing them to project their strength effectively far beyond their shores. 

Dorne: House Yronwood. Their control of the Boneway and their ability to raise a large army makes them a force to reckon with, and so are a house the Martells have to contantly worry about.

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The Reach> Hightower, they controls the biggest city, if fairly wealty, and has enough prestige to marry royalty. They may even be stronger than the Tyrells.

Westerlands> Probably Crackhall. The Marbrand castle was a ruin poorly defended that Robb was able to take by storming, they don't seem that powerful. On the other hand Jaime and his Frey cousin were send to squire for Crackhall, and since we lack information in general about the region I would presume that the Crackhalls are the second at the moment.

 

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My guess would be,

North: Manderly, they control the only city of the North as well as quite a fair bit of land, they have quite a few vassals and have some amount of control on some of their neighbours. They have money, land and quite a army that for me makes them the number 2 house, and they also seem to be the only northern house with some political weigth in the South.

Riverlands: The Frey's seem to be the more powerfull of the Tully vassal but I would say the House that rules Harrenhal migth be more powerfull. The problem for the house of Harrenhal is that the Castle drains completely their wealth, but a few previous lords of Harrenhal seem to have quite some wealth, the Strongs and even the Whents pre-rebellion had the coin to go around. They must have quite a bit of lands and likely are number 2 in the Riverlands if they are not struggling.

Vale: The Royce are a definite 2nd, they seem to have the most influence and army. But I would point out that they seem to have a coin problem, after all they seem like they could only afford one son to stay in Runestone and the others went to the wall or to serve other people.

Iron Islands: Harlaw is the richest of the island so I would say that the main Harlaws are the more powerfull of the Greyjoy vassal's, maybe the Goodbrother could contest them since they rule the largest of the island but I still would favour Harlaw.

Westerlands: For me this is the hardest, it would seem that the Reynes were a clear second when they existed but know its hard to tell. The Marbrands seem to have some influence and gold but like somebody said their castle fell quite easly, it could be that it was not properly guarded but still. The Crakehall are another serious contender they seem to have quite a bit of connection but dont seem always present in council's. I would consider 2 other houses to, the Brax's who are seen with both lannister army's, the Serrets who seem to have a prestigious place. Maybe the Lydden or Jast are also powerful but I dont think we know enougth about them. So I would go for Crakehall but it is really hard to say.

Crownlands: The Velaryon's seem to have had a pretty hard fall and so has Duskendale but I would still think that one of them is the second power in the region, maybe the Rosby's but it is not sure.

Stormlands: I would say either Swann or Tarth. Swann seem to be the more powerfull of the marcher lords but Tarth seem's to be completely under the control of one family and from the maps it is a big island, it also has valued good like marble so I would not be surprised that they are a close second.

Reach: Hands down the Hightower, they seem closer in power to a lord Paramount then to other lords. They control the second city, the maester and until not long ago the faith. They are even arguably the main power in the Reach and the Tyrells would the second house of the reach.

Dorne: The Yronwoods are a clear second but it would seem that Fowler and Dayne could give them a run for their money. But I still think that the Yronwoods are a clear number 2.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah, the Reach is really difficult. They have like three "great" houses that are super powerful: Redwyne, Hightower & Dayne.

Perhaps House Dayne isn't super powerful but it seems like it when thinking about their Sword of the Morning title, their possible connection to House Targaryen or primitive Valyrians long  ago as well as their very grand seats of Starfall and High Hermitage.

The Westerlands: I would say maybe House Marbrand, House Crakehall, House Brax or House Swyft.

The Iron Islands: House Harlaw indeed. It seems to me that Balon Greyjoy wed Alannys Harlaw as a political match.

The Stormlands: House Swann

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28 minutes ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Yeah, the Reach is really difficult. They have like three "great" houses that are super powerful: Redwyne, Hightower & Dayne.

 

House Dayne is from Dorne, and the Yronwoods are stronger.

Hightower is easily stronger than the other houses in the reach and might be even stronger than the Tyrells, acording to Randyl Tarly they can field at least three times more than any other house sworn to the Tyrells, they are also very rich, even being compared to the Lannisters.

Quote

“What is Lord Hightower doing?” Sam blurted. “My father always said he was as wealthy as the Lannisters, and could command thrice as many swords as any of Highgarden’s other bannermen.”

 

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On 9/2/2022 at 7:42 PM, Lucia Targaryen said:

What would you say are the second greatest houses of each region, at least before the Wot5K.

North - House Bolton

Vale - House Royce

Dorne - House Yronwood

Iron Islands - House Harlaw 

Reach - House Hightower 

Not sure about the other regions.

House Velaryon would have been before Robert's Rebellion but I'm not sure after that.

House Reyne before Tywin destroyed them so maybe House Marbrand after? 

House Mallister for the Riverlands?

House Caron for the Stormlands? As Lord of the Marches?

Manderlys who own one of the very few cities of Westeros and hold large quantities of land in a much better area than Bolton lands are obviously greater than Boltons, very likely Dustins who own the Barrowlands and the largest town in the North as well.

Definitely not Mallisters for Riverlands either, with Freys being so wealthy and controlling much land. They won't even be placed in the third with Vances(two major branches are both powerful houses in their own right) and Pipers.

Royce, Hightower and  Yronwood all eclipse their overlords.

Carons aren't the overlord of other marcher houses. 

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