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Heresy 244 Big Scaly Beasties with Bad Breath


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On 10/5/2022 at 3:48 PM, Melifeather said:

Is Charles supposed to be Rhaenyra then?

Unfortunately no, they claim Harry's wife is Rhaenyra - sigh 

I think GRRM cares about his fantasy world having some reality, he made sure his dragons only had two legs and mot four legs so there could be some things that prevent dragons to fly due to their massive size. 

I am having a rereading and I don't know if I ever realised Will&Gared mentions "dead" Wilding group they saw had a Greenseer among them 

 

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On 10/7/2022 at 11:13 AM, Melifeather said:

HotD made point about Aemond bonding with Vhagar after the death of his aunt Laena Valyrion (daughter of Rhaenys) - presumably denying one of her own offspring, Baela and Rhaena from bonding. Vhagar was a huge dragon that originally belonged to Visenya, sister-wife to Aegon the Conqueror. Aemond was the fourth rider to bond with the old dragon, but would the vacancy be so easy to fill just as long as the rider had Targaryen blood?

Again with the Aemond symbolism in the newest episode...HotD made him look like a young Brynden (Bloodraven) Rivers. If Aemond gets his hand on that dagger I think it could be a deliberate tip that Brynden went to the Children specifically to help stop the threat from the north. 

 

6 hours ago, asongofheresy said:

Unfortunately no, they claim Harry's wife is Rhaenyra - sigh 

I think GRRM cares about his fantasy world having some reality, he made sure his dragons only had two legs and mot four legs so there could be some things that prevent dragons to fly due to their massive size. 

I am having a rereading and I don't know if I ever realised Will&Gared mentions "dead" Wilding group they saw had a Greenseer among them 

 

I have suggested (in the past) that the woman in the tree with the "afar" eyes was actually a priestess working magic to draw white walkers out of the wildings. White walkers are frequently referred to as shadows. Melisandre "drew" shadows from Stannis's life-force. He survived the process though weakened. Melisandre used intercourse to work the magic, but maybe that's not the only way? Maybe there is another process? One that captures the spirits from humans before they die? Because the wildlings that Will thought died in their sleep disappeared. They probably joined the wight horde, but their spirits transformed into white walkers. The only thing different is that the cold preserves the shadow until obsidian breaks the spell. 
 

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4 hours ago, Black Crow said:

She was a "far eyes", a lookout halfway up a tree - dead

 

11 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Again with the Aemond symbolism in the newest episode...HotD made him look like a young Brynden (Bloodraven) Rivers. If Aemond gets his hand on that dagger I think it could be a deliberate tip that Brynden went to the Children specifically to help stop the threat from the north. 

 

I have suggested (in the past) that the woman in the tree with the "afar" eyes was actually a priestess working magic to draw white walkers out of the wildings. White walkers are frequently referred to as shadows. Melisandre "drew" shadows from Stannis's life-force. He survived the process though weakened. Melisandre used intercourse to work the magic, but maybe that's not the only way? Maybe there is another process? One that captures the spirits from humans before they die? Because the wildlings that Will thought died in their sleep disappeared. They probably joined the wight horde, but their spirits transformed into white walkers. The only thing different is that the cold preserves the shadow until obsidian breaks the spell. 
 

That would be the translation I have made me think of Greenseers I guess, but a priestess/Woods witch makes sense as well. 

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OH!  Here's an interesting catch by Joe Magician:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qZwcfryZC8

Blades and swords that seem to sing and scream.

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

The pale sword came shivering through the air.

Ser Waymar met it with steel. When the blades met, there was no ring of metal on metal; only a high, thin sound at the edge of hearing, like an animal screaming in pain. Royce checked a second blow, and a third, then fell back a step. Another flurry of blows, and he fell back again.

Behind him, to right, to left, all around him, the watchers stood patient, faceless, silent, the shifting patterns of their delicate armor making them all but invisible in the wood. Yet they made no move to interfere.

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

When the blades touched, the steel shattered.

A scream echoed through the forest night, and the longsword shivered into a hundred brittle pieces, the shards scattering like a rain of needles. Royce went to his knees, shrieking, and covered his eyes. Blood welled between his fingers.

The watchers moved forward together, as if some signal had been given. Swords rose and fell, all in a deathly silence. It was cold butchery. The pale blades sliced through ringmail as if it were silk. Will closed his eyes. Far beneath him, he heard their voices and laughter sharp as icicles.

 

 

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I don't understand their reasoning (video above). They propose that Larys as a greenseer is motivated to go against Rhaenyra to prevent a second rise of Valyria, but then says that the Children brought the Targaryens to Westeros in order to fight against the coming return of White Walkers. Isn't this a contradiction? You want dragons yet you poison dragon eggs and prevent the rise of dragons? Am I missing something?

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I also think the two guys in the video are forgetting that both Alicent and Rhaenyra has sons named Aegon. Rhaenyra's Aegon was fathered by Daemon. So when King Viserys mentioned Aegon's name on his death bed, he was referring to Rhaenyra's son Aegon.

Edited by Melifeather
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Here is my problem with the dagger and the Prince that Was Promised storyline from HotD...the presumed setup is that the Starks will support Rhaenyra in the Dance of the Dragon because of this very prophecy, that dragons will be important when the threat from the North materializes. I've already pointed out the seeming contradiction of Larys being a greenseer and therefore having a reason to tamp down the power of the dragons. If dragons are so important, then why would one side (Queen Alicent and her Aegon with Larys) be working so hard to get rid of "them" (Rhaenyra and her Aegon plus the Starks)?

Presumably Rhaenyra sent her son Jacaerys to Winterfell to befriend Lord Cregan Stark and inform him of the prophecy and gain the support of the North as allies for the "Blacks". Okay, this is a reasonable conclusion from the outline that GRRM has written. Now fast forward in the books (and the show) to Daenerys existence and her dragons. If dragons are so important to fulfilling the prophecy in order to defeat the return of the Others thereby being the main reason why Daenerys needs to come to Westeros, then why would Jon Snow need to be Rhaegar's son? In my opinion Jon being the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna is superfluous - it just doesn't make sense if the prophecy of the Prince is related to the Others, because he doesn't have any dragons! Simply being a Targaryen isn't enough. It wasn't enough for any of the dragon-less Targaryens - and again I have to point to Larys Strong again who the show implies was a greenseer. Are they saying that greenseers do not want dragons because they do not want to defeat the return of the Others?

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@LynnS that scene was terrible, I can't believe Mushroom's account is taken as truth just because its showing Greens in a bad light, I don't like the obvious bias against one side

I am continue the rereading and this time something interesting from Tyrion I - Jaime and Tyrion discuss Bran's situation after his fall, Jaime says he would mercy kill his son in such a situation because Bran will be more than a crippled boy but rather a grotesque being. Tyrion replies that he wants Bran to wake up because he is interested in what he will reveal. When Jaime questions Tyrion about his loyalties, Tyrion is said to look at him "like a wolf" - the translation I own has phrase at least - and says why you know how much I love our family etc. I never connected Bran being a grotesque being and Tyrion's wolfish stare before, is it a hint about who Bran will skinchange in the future? 

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55 minutes ago, asongofheresy said:

I am continue the rereading and this time something interesting from Tyrion I - Jaime and Tyrion discuss Bran's situation after his fall, Jaime says he would mercy kill his son in such a situation because Bran will be more than a crippled boy but rather a grotesque being. Tyrion replies that he wants Bran to wake up because he is interested in what he will reveal. When Jaime questions Tyrion about his loyalties, Tyrion is said to look at him "like a wolf" - the translation I own has phrase at least - and says why you know how much I love our family etc. I never connected Bran being a grotesque being and Tyrion's wolfish stare before, is it a hint about who Bran will skinchange in the future? 

I think not and that the passage should be read straight, but of course [and thank you for reminding us] it does rather suggest motive for the murder attempt. Cersei? Jaime?

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Is anyone here familiar with the generational theory? 

I was watching the Netflix series The Watcher and the "fourth turning" and "saeculum" came up and I had to look it up. It ironically sounds very much like my repeated (inversion) history theory for ASOIAF. I've ordered the book written by Strauss and Howe who wrote two books on the subject going back to 1991. You can read a little bit about the theory HERE.

Quote

The Strauss–Howe generational theory, devised by William Strauss and Neil Howe, describes a theorized recurring generation cycle in American history and Western history. According to the theory, historical events are associated with recurring generational personas (archetypes). Each generational persona unleashes a new era (called a turning) lasting around 20–25 years, in which a new social, political, and economic climate (mood) exists. They are part of a larger cyclical "saeculum" (a long human life, which usually spans between 80 and 100 years, although some saecula have lasted longer). The theory states that a crisis recurs in American history after every saeculum, which is followed by a recovery (high). During this recovery, institutions and communitarian values are strong. Ultimately, succeeding generational archetypes attack and weaken institutions in the name of autonomy and individualism, which eventually creates a tumultuous political environment that ripens conditions for another crisis.

I was flabbergasted to put it mildly.

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On 10/18/2022 at 3:36 PM, Melifeather said:

Is anyone here familiar with the generational theory? 

I was watching the Netflix series The Watcher and the "fourth turning" and "saeculum" came up and I had to look it up. It ironically sounds very much like my repeated (inversion) history theory for ASOIAF. I've ordered the book written by Strauss and Howe who wrote two books on the subject going back to 1991. You can read a little bit about the theory HERE.

I was flabbergasted to put it mildly.

Basically, the matrix is reset time after time.

"It only ends once. Everything else is just progress."

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