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Heresy 244 Big Scaly Beasties with Bad Breath


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13 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I watched the first episode today. This is a weird show, but weird in a good way! 

I'm quite enjoying it.  I'm done episode 3.  Damien Walter has some interesting episode analysis.  I find him very entertaining to watch and he has two more analysis of 1899 that I'd dearly love to see; but I think they are patreon only content.  I can't afford to be anyone's patreon.  Every penny I have is going towards bills and grocery.  Everything is so expensive now, not to mention cold medication.  The shelves everywhere are empty.   We've been sharing what we have with friends who are sick and can't get any.

 

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3 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm quite enjoying it.  I'm done episode 3.  Damien Walter has some interesting episode analysis.  I find him very entertaining to watch and he has two more analysis of 1899 that I'd dearly love to see; but I think they are patreon only content.  I can't afford to be anyone's patreon.  Every penny I have is going towards bills and grocery.  Everything is so expensive now, not to mention cold medication.  The shelves everywhere are empty.   We've been sharing what we have with friends who are sick and can't get any.

 

I'm watching 1899 too. I read yesterday that you're supposed to change your settings so that you get all the subtitles. The ship's crew speaks many different languages so if you're watching the English dubbed version like I am, we're supposedly missing out on some of the context in the subtitles. 

 

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Rings of Power opening credits made using sound?

 

I actually wondered if this is how they did it. Very cool.

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22 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I'm watching 1899 too. I read yesterday that you're supposed to change your settings so that you get all the subtitles. The ship's crew speaks many different languages so if you're watching the English dubbed version like I am, we're supposedly missing out on some of the context in the subtitles. 

I heard that and yes I was watching with english translation.  I'll have to try it the other way.  

This is hilarious:

 

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2 hours ago, LynnS said:

I heard that and yes I was watching with english translation.  I'll have to try it the other way.  

This is hilarious:

 

I watched the finale episode of 1899 last night and was pleasantly surprised by the ending. I thought it was brilliant.

I learned how to parallel park as a teen driving a super long, 70-something Delta 88 Royale. It was only a 2-door, but about the length of a limousine. You figure out how to parallel park that boat and you'll never have trouble with anything smaller.

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On 12/2/2022 at 10:10 AM, Melifeather said:

I watched the finale episode of 1899 last night and was pleasantly surprised by the ending. I thought it was brilliant

Have you seen Tim Burton's show?  Wednesday (Addams) is all over the internet. :D

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 9/8/2022 at 2:10 AM, Black Crow said:

Separately, we've discussed the nature of White Walkers and come up with a pretty solid theory that they may be Wargs, released by death and instead of being sucked into a second life with their familiars as happens to ordinary skinchangers, they can create new bodies of snow and ice and cold. 

What if Waymar is simply seeing his own shadow and the six children of the forest are the watchers. 
 

Waymar, looking into an obsidian black mirror, sees his own white shadow.

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On 3/26/2023 at 8:25 AM, Nadden said:

Waymar, looking into an obsidian black mirror, sees his own white shadow.

It is what Will (up a tree) sees that is described and it is clearly not a reflection of Waymar in an obsidian mirror.  Will would almost certainly mention if an obsidian mirror as big as a person existed, and the text just doesn't support that idea.

Equally, Sam did not see the Other he slew as a reflection of himself in an obsidian mirror either.

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On 3/26/2023 at 2:25 AM, Nadden said:

What if Waymar is simply seeing his own shadow and the six children of the forest are the watchers. 
 

Waymar, looking into an obsidian black mirror, sees his own white shadow.

Perhaps metaphorically speaking, but I don't think that was quite GRRM's intention exactly in the prologue. I think we're supposed to draw a connection between the group of wildlings that Will thought were dead and then missing by the time he returned with Gared and Royce, with the white walkers that come out of the trees, because they appear right next to the same spot where the wildlings had been laying. Will notes the weapons that were left laying on the ground so the wildlings didn't leave alive.

Shadows are drawn from humans. We understand this, because Stannis became weaker each time Melisandre drew from his life-force. An interesting question about shadows comes to mind. Are shadows inherently evil? This is what I think your idea is really proposing. Are the shadows a manifestation of the evil that dwells inside us? Is evil kept in check by our sense of what's right and what's wrong, by love of family, by our ideas of justice, or by honor? Once that evil shadow is extracted and is sentient, it has no restraints upon it. The ones drawn from Stannis performed evil deeds. One even killed his brother Renly which I think the living Stannis would have found difficult to do. He loved his brother and he voiced his regret when he talked about the peach:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Davos II

Ser Davos Seaworth could feel his phantom fingertips start to itch. Something is wrong here, the onetime smuggler thought. Yet he nodded and said, "I see."

"Renly offered me a peach. At our parley. Mocked me, defied me, threatened me, and offered me a peach. I thought he was drawing a blade and went for mine own. Was that his purpose, to make me show fear? Or was it one of his pointless jests? When he spoke of how sweet the peach was, did his words have some hidden meaning?" The king gave a shake of his head, like a dog shaking a rabbit to snap its neck. "Only Renly could vex me so with a piece of fruit. He brought his doom on himself with his treason, but I did love him, Davos. I know that now. I swear, I will go to my grave thinking of my brother's peach."

 

 

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On 3/28/2023 at 8:19 AM, oldbus said:

It is what Will (up a tree) sees that is described and it is clearly not a reflection of Waymar in an obsidian mirror.  Will would almost certainly mention if an obsidian mirror as big as a person existed, and the text just doesn't support that idea.

He describes it early on——It was the “great rock”. But when he returns and is up the tree; he doesn’t realize what he’s looking at. But he lost his bearings when he was rushed up the tree by Waymar. "Up the tree. Be quick about it. Look for a fire.", he’d commanded. 
 

Will became lost amongst the needles and it was dark in the woods. Picture looking for a large mirror in the dark of the wood. He only sees it when Waymar steps in front of it. And then doesn’t recognize what it is.

”the text” does support the idea. If you carefully read the duel you’ll notice the moves all match up. You can read it or I can break it down for you:)

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12 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Shadows are drawn from humans. We understand this, because Stannis became weaker each time Melisandre drew from his life-force. An interesting question about shadows comes to mind. Are shadows inherently evil? This is what I think your idea is really proposing. Are the shadows a manifestation of the evil that dwells inside us? Is evil kept in check by our sense of what's right and what's wrong, by love of family, by our ideas of justice, or by honor? Once that evil shadow is extracted and is sentient, it has no restraints upon it. The ones drawn from Stannis performed evil deeds. One even killed his brother Renly which I think the living Stannis would have found difficult to do. He loved his brother and he voiced his regret when he talked about the peach:

I really love this!
 

However there’s some strong evidence that the shard in Waymar’s left eye is frozen fire. And the the white shadow mirrors every move Waymar makes. And the “wildlings” that Will saw weren’t dead or sleeping. They were meditating. The eight “wildlings” were six children of the forest and a greenseer (the couple) up against the “great rock”. The rock is the mirror.

Most of the evidence is in the subtext. 
 

Consider this and let me try to answer your questions….

Waymar, in the all black wardrobe of the night watch, is turning in a circle in front of a backdrop of a snow-covered ridge (Yin); and a white shadow emerging from the dark of the wood, is compared to a pale shape (pail shape: circle). (Yang)——Yin/Yang

It’s a meta view of the scene. 

Then to begin the scene we have a shadow in the foreground in front of Royce. ( Foreshadowing) I believe this leads to the idea of scrying.

  1. Scrying is fortunetelling and tries to discover hidden knowledge or future events, especially by means of a black mirror. Black Mirrors are made of obsidian or frozen fire.
     
    The TV show even uses the theta symbol at the end of the prologue scene to hint at this idea. Theta brain waves deal with the dream state or meditation.
     
    I think the main reason why people miss some of the clues is because they have a hard time breaking away from Will’s point of view. 

    For example, did you notice that Will’s dirk fell from his mouth? First time through the reading most people don’t. It’s not explicitly in the text.

    Quote

    He whispered a prayer to the nameless gods of the wood, and slipped his dirk free of its sheath. He put it between his teeth to keep both hands free for climbing. The taste of cold iron in his mouth gave him comfort………..Will opened his mouth to call down a warning, and the words seemed to freeze in his throat. (The dirk falls out and we never read about it.)

    Why? Because Martin is telling us that Will is unaware of what is happening. From his POV he doesn’t realize it himself. But it does have consequences. (That is for another discussion)

     

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15 hours ago, Nadden said:

I really love this!
 

However there’s some strong evidence that the shard in Waymar’s left eye is frozen fire. And the the white shadow mirrors every move Waymar makes. And the “wildlings” that Will saw weren’t dead or sleeping. They were meditating. The eight “wildlings” were six children of the forest and a greenseer (the couple) up against the “great rock”. The rock is the mirror.

Most of the evidence is in the subtext. 
 

Consider this and let me try to answer your questions….

Waymar, in the all black wardrobe of the night watch, is turning in a circle in front of a backdrop of a snow-covered ridge (Yin); and a white shadow emerging from the dark of the wood, is compared to a pale shape (pail shape: circle). (Yang)——Yin/Yang

It’s a meta view of the scene. 

Then to begin the scene we have a shadow in the foreground in front of Royce. ( Foreshadowing) I believe this leads to the idea of scrying.

  1. Scrying is fortunetelling and tries to discover hidden knowledge or future events, especially by means of a black mirror. Black Mirrors are made of obsidian or frozen fire.
     
    The TV show even uses the theta symbol at the end of the prologue scene to hint at this idea. Theta brain waves deal with the dream state or meditation.
     
    I think the main reason why people miss some of the clues is because they have a hard time breaking away from Will’s point of view. 

    For example, did you notice that Will’s dirk fell from his mouth? First time through the reading most people don’t. It’s not explicitly in the text.

    Why? Because Martin is telling us that Will is unaware of what is happening. From his POV he doesn’t realize it himself. But it does have consequences. (That is for another discussion)

     

There is a precedent for GRRM writing about creatures using mirrors to slip into other dimensions. The story he wrote is titled The Skin Trade. It also featured werewolves (skin changers) who, if I remember correctly, used the moonlight to transform. Mirrors were more like conduits to reflect the moonlight.

Sweetsunway has been writing extensively (on and off this forum) about ice magic and mirrors. Here's a link to her theory regarding the white walkers: LINK

When Will saw the first white walker he thought of it as a "shadow" before going on with a full description as being "tall" and "gaunt" and "hard" with "flesh pale as milk". The armor reflected the forest. (not Royce) Will could see the reflections of the snow, of shadows from the trees, as well as the deep grey-green color of the trees. 

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

It was cold. Shivering, Will clung more tightly to his perch. His face pressed hard against the trunk of the sentinel. He could feel the sweet, sticky sap on his cheek.

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took.

 

Will (and Royce) next saw the rest of the white walkers walk out from amongst the trees. If we're to understand that Royce is facing a mirror, then the numbers don't match up. Shouldn't there only be a total of three white walkers to mirror Royce, Will, and Gared?

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

The Other halted. Will saw its eyes; blue, deeper and bluer than any human eyes, a blue that burned like ice. They fixed on the longsword trembling on high, watched the moonlight running cold along the metal. For a heartbeat he dared to hope.

They emerged silently from the shadows, twins to the first. Three of them … four … five … Ser Waymar may have felt the cold that came with them, but he never saw them, never heard them. Will had to call out. It was his duty. And his death, if he did. He shivered, and hugged the tree, and kept the silence.

The pale sword came shivering through the air.

 

We've debated many times over the total number of white walkers. Depending upon how it's interpreted there were as few as 6 and as many as 8. I happen to believe the number corresponds with the wildling group Will found earlier and that they had died in order to produce the white walkers then their bodies shuffled away as wights.

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

"The camp is two miles farther on, over that ridge, hard beside a stream," Will said. "I got close as I dared. There's eight of them, men and women both. No children I could see. They put up a lean-to against the rock. The snow's pretty well covered it now, but I could still make it out. No fire burning, but the firepit was still plain as day. No one moving. I watched a long time. No living man ever lay so still."

 

You suggest a "great-rock" as being the mirror. The scene is described as being over a ridge and beside a stream. The wildlings built a lean-to against "the rock" which could be interpreted a single big rock or it could be the rock of the next ridge. But there is an important detail here. The rock and lean-to are covered with snow. It'd be pretty hard for that rock to be a reflective mirror if it was covered up with snow.

Will noted that they left their weapons behind on the ground. If they were meditating, why leave the weapons when they stopped? Will stated that he saw men and women, but no children. Children of the Forest are small in stature so if there were any Children laying on the ground then Will would have thought he saw children.

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3 hours ago, Melifeather said:

There is a precedent for GRRM writing about creatures using mirrors to slip into other dimensions. The story he wrote is titled The Skin Trade. It also featured werewolves (skin changers) who, if I remember correctly, used the moonlight to transform. Mirrors were more like conduits to reflect the moonlight.

Sweetsunway has been writing extensively (on and off this forum) about ice magic and mirrors. Here's a link to her theory regarding the white walkers: LINK

This is great I’m excited to check it out. Thanks for taking the time:)

 

3 hours ago, Melifeather said:

When Will saw the first white walker he thought of it as a "shadow" before going on with a full description as being "tall" and "gaunt" and "hard" with "flesh pale as milk". The armor reflected the forest. (not Royce) Will could see the reflections of the snow, of shadows from the trees, as well as the deep grey-green color of the trees. 

I believe the reference to a “white shadow” is a nice little hint from Martin about the scrying Will witnessed earlier. A “shadow” in the foreground, in front of Waymar, foreshadowing. But it can also mean that his every move in the duel is foreshadowed. And or this fight could parallel the fight in the next chapter that doesn’t make it onto the pages between the stag and the mother direwolf. Regardless, there seems to be some intent at foreshadowing:)

And Waymar, at night, bathed in moonlight would appear “pale as milk” and “gaunt”. —“Hard”, well it is a stone mirror.— Also, picture the Other’s blade. It almost vanishes when seen edge-on. That would make sense because edge-on it’s not reflective. His armor is ringmail and would appear wavy like patterns of moonlight on water. Take a look at this
 

But if Waymar’s armor is mirror-like, science says, “if you observe the reflections from two opposing mirrors, you will realize that the image well become greener with each reflection. This is because mirrors usually reflect light from the green spectrum more than other colors. So when a mirror is reflecting color, that color contains reflections, from the green spectrum more than other color spectrums. As such, as other colors fade away gradually the only visible color remaining will green.I do you like the idea of infinity mirrors. However, I don’t see Waymar’s armor being mirror-like. The only mirror-like thing is the black mirror reflecting the things you listed. This would also make the “pale sword” in essence, made of obsidian.

And I think I can show you, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the shard in Waymar’s left eye is obsidian or frozen fire.

Check out “Is It Possible To Make A Black Mirror?” on You Tube. I don’t know how to post it here for you. It’s from The Action Lab. This is the magic of the children of the forest. 
 

The fire pit warmed the great rock and provided the 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Nadden said:

But if Waymar’s armor is mirror-like, science says, “if you observe the reflections from two opposing mirrors, you will realize that the image well become greener with each reflection. This is because mirrors usually reflect light from the green spectrum more than other colors. So when a mirror is reflecting color, that color contains reflections, from the green spectrum more than other color spectrums. As such, as other colors fade away gradually the only visible color remaining will green.I do you like the idea of infinity mirrors. However, I don’t see Waymar’s armor being mirror-like. The only mirror-like thing is the black mirror reflecting the things you listed. This would also make the “pale sword” in essence, made of obsidian.

I think you’ve misread me. The white walker’s armor was reflective. Royce was dressed all in black like all men of the Watch. 

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The conversation about Black Mirrors makes me think of this passage:

Quote

At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind.  When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.

So in Bran’s vision the white weirwood is gazing at its reflection in a still black pool.

Akin to a Black Mirror?

And note the description when the water isn’t still:

Quote

Ripples were running across the surface of the water when they arrived, making the reflection of the weirwood shimmer and dance

And compare that to the White Walker as it faced off against Waymar:

Quote

There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.  

Ser Waymar met him bravely.  “Dance with me then.”

 

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On 3/29/2023 at 11:55 AM, Melifeather said:

I think you’ve misread me. The white walker’s armor was reflective. Royce was dressed all in black like all men of the Watch. 

You’re right, I think I misread you. Are you seeing how it can be a black mirror? Or are saying the “white shadow’s” armor was reflective and thus different from Waymar’s gleaming ringmail with all black?

Quote

Will (and Royce) next saw the rest of the white walkers walk out from amongst the trees. If we're to understand that Royce is facing a mirror, then the numbers don't match up. Shouldn't there only be a total of three white walkers to mirror Royce, Will, and Gared?

Will first saw pale shapes gliding through the wood. The pales shapes are moonlight unknowingly coming from the hilt of Waymar’s own sword. That sword, with gems in its hilt, was the wrong sword for a night ranging. And yes unknowingly Royce is facing a mirror.

The text doesn’t say it but Waymar hears a noise and becomes disoriented. He loses track of where he is and is surprised when he sees his own reflection. 
 

The noise he hears is from the dirk that Will unknowingly drops. That’s why Waymar suddenly becomes wary and starts turning in circles. We know that Waymar  becomes disoriented because he calls up to Will, knowing he’s in the sentinel tree, so he can regain his bearings.

The timing is perfect, the moon’s position and Waymar directly in front of the mirror. Will and Gared are never in front of the mirror at the right moment. Black mirrors just look like black stone without the right lighting.

On 3/29/2023 at 5:57 AM, Melifeather said:

We've debated many times over the total number of white walkers. Depending upon how it's interpreted there were as few as 6 and as many as 8. I happen to believe the number corresponds with the wildling group Will found earlier and that they had died in order to produce the white walkers then their bodies shuffled away as wights.

I believe what Will originally sees are the watchers. And the watchers are the children of the forest. When Will saw earlier they were meditating. They weren’t sleeping or dead. There are six children that we know of (Ash, Black Knife, Coals, Leaf, Scales, Snowylocks) And I believe one other person that is a seer in front of the mirror. The seer and his reflection were likely the couple up against the rock. So my count is seven. (This parallels the tower of joy scene)

 

On 3/29/2023 at 5:57 AM, Melifeather said:

You suggest a "great-rock" as being the mirror. The scene is described as being over a ridge and beside a stream. The wildlings built a lean-to against "the rock" which could be interpreted a single big rock or it could be the rock of the next ridge. But there is an important detail here. The rock and lean-to are covered with snow. It'd be pretty hard for that rock to be a reflective mirror if it was covered up with snow.

And yes, I too see the “great rock” as a single big rock but not part of another ridge. But the detail you mention……  best maybe to point out the parallel scene in the next chapter. 
 

Quote

Half-buried in bloodstained snow, a huge dark shape slumped in death. Ice had formed in its shaggy grey fur, and the faint smell of corruption clung to it like a woman's perfume. (AGOT Bran I)

It’s a snow drift up against a dark haired frozen mother direwolf with a branch-like stag antler in it. The snowdrift would parallel the snow-covered lean-to made with a dead stag skin and a dead branch against a dark obsidian stone. And the fact that it’s a frozen bloody dark shape lines up with frozen fire. The pups might parallel the rain of needles.

 

On 3/29/2023 at 5:57 AM, Melifeather said:

Will noted that they left their weapons behind on the ground. If they were meditating, why leave the weapons when they stopped? Will stated that he saw men and women, but no children. Children of the Forest are small in stature so if there were any Children laying on the ground then Will would have thought he saw children.

The only weapon mentioned again is the valuable axe. I’ve wondered if the children weren’t baiting the trap here. (knowing Waymar would spot himself in the mirror). Were the children using it to carve the mirror? Was this Craster’s axe that lost its bite? Not sure. 
 

If the axe also paralleled something in the Bran 1 mother direwolf scene perhaps it’s the axe that chopped down the ironwood tree in the Gared beheading scene. The trees who’s wood built the ironwood bridge in the mother direwolf scene. Not sure.

And yes the children are small but relative to what. They were likely the same size and laying down. And they don’t look like children. But they did wear delicate armor like the watchers. And they spoke the true tongue.

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On 3/29/2023 at 12:38 PM, Frey family reunion said:

The conversation about Black Mirrors makes me think of this passage:

Black water and obsidian stone are common mediums for scrying. Galadriel and Frodo use water in the Lord of the Rings. I’ve long thought, “ Dance with me then” was an anagram for ‘enchanted white men’. 
 

Also what do you think about Waymar’s initial pose? Do you think it looks like Luke Skywalker's pose on the original Star Wars poster with the lightsaber high over head? That’s how I picture it.
 

Interestingly, there’s a  yoga sequence called the Dancing Warrior. And Waymar’s final pose, where Will thinks he looks like a boy, is a child’s pose with a variation of thread the needle.

I love the quotes that you’ve found. I need to reread those. Thanks for your thoughts I have more thoughts I plan on posting here. But I want to reread those chapters where you’ve quoted from:)

 

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9 hours ago, Nadden said:

Are you seeing how it can be a black mirror? Or are saying the “white shadow’s” armor was reflective and thus different from Waymar’s gleaming ringmail with all black?

The white walkers/shadows were described as wearing reflective armor. Royce's ring mail is described as "gleaming black".

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs. He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather. Ser Waymar had been a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch for less than half a year, but no one could say he had not prepared for his vocation. At least insofar as his wardrobe was concerned.

His cloak was his crowning glory; sable, thick and black and soft as sin. "Bet he killed them all himself, he did," Gared told the barracks over wine, "twisted their little heads off, our mighty warrior." They had all shared the laugh.

 

Will saw the white walkers before Waymar did. He saw movement, then pale shapes gliding through the wood. If we're talking about a black mirror, why would the white shadows need to come from the woods off from the side and then position themselves in front of Waymar?

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

The Others made no sound.

Will saw movement from the corner of his eye. Pale shapes gliding through the wood. He turned his head, glimpsed a white shadow in the darkness. Then it was gone. Branches stirred gently in the wind, scratching at one another with wooden fingers. Will opened his mouth to call down a warning, and the words seemed to freeze in his throat. Perhaps he was wrong. Perhaps it had only been a bird, a reflection on the snow, some trick of the moonlight. What had he seen, after all?

 

Soon, Waymar sees the white walkers. One of them stands right in front of him. We know Waymar saw him, because he warned it to "come no farther" and he positioned himself for battle.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took.

Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss. "Come no farther," the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy's. He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. The wind had stopped. It was very cold.

 

9 hours ago, Nadden said:

The text doesn’t say it but Waymar hears a noise and becomes disoriented. He loses track of where he is and is surprised when he sees his own reflection. 
 

I interpreted Waymar's circling as a defensive movement. He heard the white walkers before he saw them and didn't want to be taken unawares. I think the slow circle was to locate where the threat was coming from.

Will took note of the white walker's weapon:

Quote

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

 

Once Waymar understood the intent of the white walker he gathered his courage:

Quote

Ser Waymar met him bravely. "Dance with me then." He lifted his sword high over his head, defiant. His hands trembled from the weight of it, or perhaps from the cold. Yet in that moment, Will thought, he was a boy no longer, but a man of the Night's Watch.

 

Talk about parallels, this interesting passage came up. It describes when Ser Ilyn beheaded Ned Stark:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Arya V

Ser Ilyn drew a two-handed greatsword from the scabbard on his back. As he lifted the blade above his head, sunlight seemed to ripple and dance down the dark metal, glinting off an edge sharper than any razor. Ice, she thought, he has Ice! Her tears streamed down her face, blinding her.

 

Here's an interesting detail that I've missed in the past. The remaining white walkers didn't step out from the woods until Waymar raised his sword to fight:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

Ser Waymar met him bravely. "Dance with me then." He lifted his sword high over his head, defiant. His hands trembled from the weight of it, or perhaps from the cold. Yet in that moment, Will thought, he was a boy no longer, but a man of the Night's Watch.

The Other halted. Will saw its eyes; blue, deeper and bluer than any human eyes, a blue that burned like ice. They fixed on the longsword trembling on high, watched the moonlight running cold along the metal. For a heartbeat he dared to hope.

They emerged silently from the shadows, twins to the first. Three of them … four … five … Ser Waymar may have felt the cold that came with them, but he never saw them, never heard them. Will had to call out. It was his duty. And his death, if he did. He shivered, and hugged the tree, and kept the silence.

 

Waymar faced one of the white walkers while the rest watched. The white walker made the first move.

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The pale sword came shivering through the air.

Ser Waymar met it with steel. When the blades met, there was no ring of metal on metal; only a high, thin sound at the edge of hearing, like an animal screaming in pain. Royce checked a second blow, and a third, then fell back a step. Another flurry of blows, and he fell back again.

 

 

The other white walkers were to the left and right and all around, then formed a circle around the two. As soon as Waymar's sword shattered, blinding his eyes, the rest joined in the slaughter. I can see where the symbolism of the shattered sword multiplied the number of white walkers with weapons, but Will had already counted them and noted that they were standing off to the sides. They didn't suddenly just materialize after Waymar's sword shattered.

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The watchers moved forward together, as if some signal had been given. Swords rose and fell, all in a deathly silence. It was cold butchery. The pale blades sliced through ringmail as if it were silk. Will closed his eyes. Far beneath him, he heard their voices and laughter sharp as icicles.

 

I'm all about parallels, metaphors, and foreshadowing, but I'm not convinced that Waymar was fighting his own shadow in a black mirror. The imagery is there and the symbolism may very well be intentional, but I think it's more of a narrative construct to create a feeling. The fact of the matter is that there was a party of white walkers that came out of the woods and into the clearing in front of Waymar Royce. The white walkers talked to each other, they mocked Waymar, and they all joined in at the end and laughed. 

Edited by Melifeather
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