Jump to content

Heresy 244 Big Scaly Beasties with Bad Breath


Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I don't want to move too far ahead of where my thoughts are traveling, because I'd love to read everyone's reactions to what I'm proposing, but this idea of an outside force luring people to do things. Bran lured to the tower. Jaime lured into pushing Bran. Joffrey/Cersei/Littlefinger lured into killing Bran. Added to this, I think the Watch was lured to mutiny. Lord Commander Jon Snow was a force at the Wall and he needed to be removed in order to get the wights through.

Bowen Marsh was crying when he stabbed Jon saying he did it for the Watch, but his tears indicate that this actually goes against his nature. He's been at the Wall and training new recruits for a very long time. Sure he was angry about Jon's decision to let the wildlings through the Wall, but I can't help but think what Melisandre said to Jon regarding who his real enemies were.
 

She said they would smile to his face and sharpen their knives behind their backs. Bowen Marsh never hid his dislike or disagreement with any decision. Even the "ganglinig" steward backed away with his hands up as if in surprise.

 

I'm having a hard time buying into this "luring" or pushing idea.  It seems to go against two major traits of GRRM's storytelling.  The first is that magic is poorly understood and often unreliable.  The second is that characters are responsible for what happens to themselves.  They can be influenced, but they still know what is going on.

The magicians we have seen generally rely on instinct and don't usually fully understand the results or how they got them.  We have seen this with Melisandre for example.  Even accurate foretellers like Maggy the frog and the Ghost of High Heart give pronouncements that are cryptic, to say the least.  So I have a hard time believing in the ability to push people to do stuff and have it turn out right all the time.

Characters are responsible for their own actions.  Jaime and Cersei wanted sex, so they went to a remote tower.  Bran was bored so he felt like climbing it.  They met and bad things happened.  To believe in luring you need to know that Bran will be spotted, and pushed, and survive the fall.  None is certain, or necessarily even likely.

Same with the catspaw.  Whoever sent him did it on his own.  The dagger was probably chosen because it was the least conspicuous in Robert's collection.  The collection is the easiest place to find a weapon that won't be immediately missed.

And Bowen Marsh had plenty of reasons to do what he did.  I disagree with his solution, but Jon's relationship with Stannis and the influx of wildlings were legitimate concerns.  It was Marsh's character traits that caused him to attack Jon, though.

I am perfectly happy with the idea that Bloodraven is sending visions and messages.  We've seen evidence of that with Bran and Jojen.  But I'm unwilling to go further.

Edited by Nevets
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I still think the wildlings are the smiling enemy sharpening their blades behind their backs. Now that they convinced Jon to let them through the Wall, the next step is to usher the wights through.

I'm not convinced that the wights are an "enemy". That requires a consciousness and intelligence they clearly don't have.

Rather the "enemy" is the cold, which raises them. I'm not even convinced anent the walkers. Yes, they are Nazgul, riding those cold winds and so associated with the wights, but that aint the same thing as raising and controlling them

A real life parallel might be herds of bison/buffaloes. The size of a herd is dangerous, trampling all in its past. Native American warriors can pass through it for concealment, and they can direct it to some extent, but that's not the same thing at all as acting as generals and by the same token I don't see Walkers "commanding" armies of wights. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Nevets said:

I'm having a hard time buying into this "luring" or pushing idea.  It seems to go against two major traits of GRRM's storytelling.  The first is that magic is poorly understood and often unreliable.  The second is that characters are responsible for what happens to themselves.  They can be influenced, but they still know what is going on.

The magicians we have seen generally rely on instinct and don't usually fully understand the results or how they got them.  We have seen this with Melisandre for example.  Even accurate foretellers like Maggy the frog and the Ghost of High Heart give pronouncements that are cryptic, to say the least.  So I have a hard time believing in the ability to push people to do stuff and have it turn out right all the time.

Characters are responsible for their own actions.  Jaime and Cersei wanted sex, so they went to a remote tower.  Bran was bored so he felt like climbing it.  They met and bad things happened.  To believe in luring you need to know that Bran will be spotted, and pushed, and survive the fall.  None is certain, or necessarily even likely.

Same with the catspaw.  Whoever sent him did it on his own.  The dagger was probably chosen because it was the least conspicuous in Robert's collection.  The collection is the easiest place to find a weapon that won't be immediately missed.

And Bowen Marsh had plenty of reasons to do what he did.  I disagree with his solution, but Jon's relationship with Stannis and the influx of wildlings were legitimate concerns.  It was Marsh's character traits that caused him to attack Jon, though.

I am perfectly happy with the idea that Bloodraven is sending visions and messages.  We've seen evidence of that with Bran and Jojen.  But I'm unwilling to go further.

Fair enough. It is just a theory, but it seems to fit with other themes that I am seeing. I don't know if you were a part of the discussion about mummers and plays and people repeating a role? I'll circle back to this...The "luring" part are the unseen forces that drive people to repeat a specific role. What is it then that encourages them to act as they do? (Come back to this question after I give the play example.)

One of the larger overall theories that I have presented is the idea that Westeros is stuck in a time loop and that the same historical events keep repeating. Think of the historical events as plays and the people as mummers - actors - playing a role that other people in the past have played before, but like any good actor they put their own spin on the part.

The first three books in the series were pretty subtle with regards to what has been happening in the background. But then the author signals a change with the very first chapter of AFFC when he gives it a title - "The Prophet" - rather than a POV name. There are 9 titled chapters in Feast and 19 titled chapters in Dance. Haven't you questioned "why"?

It is my belief that the titled chapters are repeated histories that should be scrutinized and viewed as repeat performances of a play. I refer to them as "inversion" chapters, because while the historical play is a repeat, the result is opposite of what has happened before.

I'm going to provide one example of one such play with my explanation. 

AFFC chapter 24, Cat of the Canals

Arya as Cat takes note of several playhouses located on ships as well as the titles of their performances. I suspect the descriptions of the ships and the titles of the plays are code. Right now I think "The Ship" encompasses the entirety of the Riverlands. For a more detailed explanation as to why I believe this, please read this: https://houseofblackandwhite.freeforums.net/post/19558/thread

In an attempt to keep this explanation brief, let's cut to the play example. Arya is to report to the Kindly Man each day three things that she has learned:

Quote

I know the mummers at the Blue Lantern are going to do The Lord of the Woeful Countenance, and the mummers at the Ship are doing Seven Drunken Oarsmen.

Arya has just named two plays at two competing ship theaters. Think of the Ship as the Riverlands and Robert's Rebellion as their biggest "production". The Blue Lantern seems to hint at a Stark connection. Arya noted that the Seven Drunken Oarsmen was "in answer" to the Lord of Woeful Countenance. What do you imagine the plays were about? Could it be that Rickard Stark was the "Lord of Woeful Countenance" and the seven major houses involved in Robert’s Rebellion were the "Seven Drunken Oarsmen"? It's easier to see the allegory for Rickard, but how are the other lords drunken oarsmen? 

Oarsmen power and move a ship through the water and certainly the Rebellion moved around the Riverlands before heading south to Kings Landing. There were seven major battles that if you looked at them on a map and in the order they were fought appear to be spread out in a drunken manner: Gulltown, Summerhall, Ashford, Battle of the Bells, The Trident, Sack of Kings Landing, and lastly the lifting of the seige at Storms End.

Just as "oarsmen" can be men that are financially driven, desire power, or actual geographical movement. "Drunken" can be actions not normally taken, not thinking clearly, uninhibited, and still include the actual battles in the Riverlands and in the Trident itself.

Circling back to my question above. What is driving the characters to repeat history?

 

15 hours ago, Black Crow said:

I'm not convinced that the wights are an "enemy". That requires a consciousness and intelligence they clearly don't have.

Rather the "enemy" is the cold, which raises them. I'm not even convinced anent the walkers. Yes, they are Nazgul, riding those cold winds and so associated with the wights, but that aint the same thing as raising and controlling them

A real life parallel might be herds of bison/buffaloes. The size of a herd is dangerous, trampling all in its past. Native American warriors can pass through it for concealment, and they can direct it to some extent, but that's not the same thing at all as acting as generals and by the same token I don't see Walkers "commanding" armies of wights. 

The wights are a tool - a weapon. Now that the wildlings are through the Wall they want their most destructive weapon.

Edited by Melifeather
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had mentioned AFFC chapter 1, The Prophet and then went on to explain a play in Cat of the Canals. How do I know these are  repeats of history, and how does this first chapter introduce us to this idea? My working theory is that Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy is playing the same role that Maester Aemon Targaryen played when he was alive and that the whole Greyjoy family is repeating things the Targaryens and Blackfyres have done in the past.

The House of the Dragon utilized a dagger inscribed with text that can only be read when heated: From my blood come the prince that was promised...and his will be the song of ice and fire. GRRM has said that Aegon the Conqueror forged the blade and that it has been passed down from king to king - ironically much like the oft discussed Muskgrave Ritual that has come up more than a few times in the Heresy threads. 

For the uninitiated, an explanation of the Musgrave ritual should be explained. In short it's a Sherlock Holmes story about one of his first cases - the disappearance of a maid and butler employed by Holmes' university friend, Reginald Musgrave connected to a mysterious ritual.

 The pair vanished after Musgrave had dismissed Brunton for secretly reading a family document, the Musgrave Ritual. The Ritual, which dates from the 17th century, reads:

'Whose was it?' 'His who is gone.' 'Who shall have it?' 'He who will come.' 'What was the month?' 'The sixth from the first.' 'Where was the sun?' 'Over the oak.' 'Where was the shadow?' 'Under the elm.' 'How was it stepped?' 'North by ten and by ten, east by five and by five, south by two and by two, west by one and by one, and so under.' 'What shall we give for it?' 'All that is ours.' 'Why should we give it?' 'For the sake of the trust.'

The riddle revealed that the relics found in the bag were the medieval gold and gemstone crown of St Edward and belonged to King Charles I’s ("His who is gone")  which was kept hidden for his successor – his son, Charles II ("He who will come"), who would not be crowned until 11 years after the execution of Charles I. The ritual had been a guide to retrieving this important symbol, and Reginald confirms that one of his ancestors, Sir Ralph Musgrave, was a king's man. Holmes theorized that the original holder of the ritual had died before teaching his son about its significance. It had thus become nothing more than a quaint custom for more than 200 years.

The dagger then is the riddle that no one really knows the significance of. It's appeared in books a number of times, but we are being led to believe that the search for the prince that was promised was a riddle that has been the driving force behind the Targaryen family for 300 years.

This is a long setup for circling back to the Greyjoys and Aeron Damphair who are mummers acting in plays that used to star the Targaryens and Blackfyres. As readers we suspect that the prince that was promised was connected to the growing threat from the north and the return of the Others. The symbolic nature of The Prophet and the religion of the Greyjoys suggests that this theory might be true. 

Take a critical look at the religion of the Drowned God. The faithful are purposely drowned and resuscitated so that what is dead can rise again stronger and harder. It's a pretty good description of the wights, don't you think? You might even say wights come in waves out of a great northern sea and that the Wall is a dam holding it all back.

Edited by Melifeather
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Nevets said:

I'm having a hard time buying into this "luring" or pushing idea.  It seems to go against two major traits of GRRM's storytelling.  The first is that magic is poorly understood and often unreliable.  The second is that characters are responsible for what happens to themselves.  They can be influenced, but they still know what is going on.

The magicians we have seen generally rely on instinct and don't usually fully understand the results or how they got them.  We have seen this with Melisandre for example.  Even accurate foretellers like Maggy the frog and the Ghost of High Heart give pronouncements that are cryptic, to say the least.  So I have a hard time believing in the ability to push people to do stuff and have it turn out right all the time.

Characters are responsible for their own actions.  Jaime and Cersei wanted sex, so they went to a remote tower.  Bran was bored so he felt like climbing it.  They met and bad things happened.  To believe in luring you need to know that Bran will be spotted, and pushed, and survive the fall.  None is certain, or necessarily even likely.

Same with the catspaw.  Whoever sent him did it on his own.  The dagger was probably chosen because it was the least conspicuous in Robert's collection.  The collection is the easiest place to find a weapon that won't be immediately missed.

And Bowen Marsh had plenty of reasons to do what he did.  I disagree with his solution, but Jon's relationship with Stannis and the influx of wildlings were legitimate concerns.  It was Marsh's character traits that caused him to attack Jon, though.

I am perfectly happy with the idea that Bloodraven is sending visions and messages.  We've seen evidence of that with Bran and Jojen.  But I'm unwilling to go further.

I've always thought future Bran lured past Bran to the tower - so Bran is responsible for what happened even though it wasn't a coincidence.

I can't believe the dagger was chosen because it was the least conspicuous in Robert's collection.  Lots of people today carry a knife on them wherever they go, knives are everywhere, and in Westerous would be even more prevalent, and in Bran's condition, he could have been killed with a spoon.  Either the employer had access to the dagger and happened to grab it because it was convenient, or more likely, with the intent of framing someone.

I've always thought Bowen Marsh was manipulated by Melisandre, although not in a magical way.

Edited by Brad Stark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Melifeather said:

But then the author signals a change with the very first chapter of AFFC when he gives it a title - "The Prophet" - rather than a POV name. There are 9 titled chapters in Feast and 19 titled chapters in Dance. Haven't you questioned "why"?

Not only is The Prophet about Aeron Damphair and the role he is playing, the title itself is telling us that we can be like Melisandre and the other prophets in the books and discern what will happen in the future by scrutinizing the titled chapters and then comparing these "plays" with what happened in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I know the mummers at the Blue Lantern are going to do The Lord of the Woeful Countenance, and the mummers at the Ship are doing Seven Drunken Oarsmen.

Have these two plays already had repeat performances or are they due to replay in the near future?

Has a daughter of Winterfell gone missing? Why yes. Sansa has gone missing. Was there a Stark Lord of Woeful Countenance? Again, I'd have to say "yes". Ned was described as having a long face and he was upset about many things. His friend and past Hand, Jon Arryn died and Ned suspected foul play. His friend and King, Robert Baratheon was a drunken womanizer who'd rather spend his days hunting than rule a realm, and his wife's family is treacherous. The king's children and heirs aren't even his, and Ned worries about his own family's safety, so all in all, I think Ned was very woeful.

What about the Seven Drunken Oarsmen? The previous oarsmen were Jon Arryn, Rickard Stark, Robert Baratheon, Hoster Tully, and questionable ally, Tywin Lannister. On the other side were the loyalist forces of house Targaryen and the Prince's wife's family of Dorne. House Targaryen is no more. Aerys and Rhaegar were slain. Rickard, Brandon, and Ned Stark all executed. Baratheon has been boozed up and gored. Jon Arryn poisoned. Hoster Tully gone mad, sickened, and then died. Lannister killed on the crapper.

Interestingly Dorne is still kicking for now and riddled with gout. Doran Martell has been cautious - overly cautious according to the symbolism of rotting blood oranges in AFFC chapter 2, The Captain of Guards. Doran is the last oarsman. I'd venture to say that all of the deaths could be attributed to bad decisions which usually happens when you're drunk. 

Edited by Melifeather
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, alienarea said:

Alternatively, GRRM has become a sloppy writer and we misinterpret it as riddles within riddles.

I assure you it is quite deliberate. I'm sure you're familiar with my work on the titled chapters? I haven't worked on them for a few years now, but I did get 9 chapters in Feast done (and now I see there were actually 10 titled chapters in Feast). I've actually returned several times to edit what I have already deciphered, because I'm always discovering more and more meaning and gaining new understanding. This dagger on the show for example has opened up a few more mysteries in the last few weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Has a daughter of Winterfell gone missing?

I should have said both daughters of Winterfell went missing. Arya, of course, went to Braavos and became "no one", because Lyanna is dead and how can you play your part if you are already dead?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

I can't believe the dagger was chosen because it was the least conspicuous in Robert's collection.  Lots of people today carry a knife on them wherever they go, knives are everywhere, and in Westerous would be even more prevalent, and in Bran's condition, he could have been killed with a spoon.  Either the employer had access to the dagger and happened to grab it because it was convenient, or more likely, with the intent of framing someone.

Exactly so and that's pretty explicit by the way it becomes a plot device in the book

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I know GRRM famously says he's a gardener, but I think he's a tapestry weaver who has created a very intricate pattern.

 

Oh the pattern is very intricate, but he's still a gardener and there are a lot of loose threads [and weeds]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm getting the message from the lack of response that you all either don't like, don't believe, or don't know what to say about my inversion/time loop theory. I could provide pages (and pages) of additional proof, but somehow I get the feeling that even that wouldn't matter. I still sense the doubt and I can visualize all the eye rolls. Ah well. 

 

:commie:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I'm getting the message from the lack of response that you all either don't like, don't believe, or don't know what to say about my inversion/time loop theory. I could provide pages (and pages) of additional proof, but somehow I get the feeling that even that wouldn't matter. I still sense the doubt and I can visualize all the eye rolls. Ah well. 

 

:commie:

From my own view I tend to not embrace theories too strongly as I enjoy letting the story (books) take me where it wants to lead me.  I’d be afraid that something like time loop inversions might take some of the unknown excitement away from me.  As another example, take Bran the “time lord & traveler” theory that keeps popping up.  In this instance, I take the stand that I hope this isn’t true.  That would be a big downer for me as I like to reserve my “time travel” fetishes for sci-fi books/movies and I don’t consider ASoIaF sci-fi.  Having said that I now get the visualization of eye rolls as well.

Getting back to you time loops…. you’ve done a lot of research on this and come up with many examples of how this might/would/does work.  If does pan out that this is indeed what is happening, then my next question would be where this would lead the story on the last page of ADOS.  Perhaps that bittersweet ending that GRRM has stated from the beginning.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Mace Cooterian said:

From my own view I tend to not embrace theories too strongly as I enjoy letting the story (books) take me where it wants to lead me.  I’d be afraid that something like time loop inversions might take some of the unknown excitement away from me.  As another example, take Bran the “time lord & traveler” theory that keeps popping up.  In this instance, I take the stand that I hope this isn’t true.  That would be a big downer for me as I like to reserve my “time travel” fetishes for sci-fi books/movies and I don’t consider ASoIaF sci-fi.  Having said that I now get the visualization of eye rolls as well.

Getting back to you time loops…. you’ve done a lot of research on this and come up with many examples of how this might/would/does work.  If does pan out that this is indeed what is happening, then my next question would be where this would lead the story on the last page of ADOS.  Perhaps that bittersweet ending that GRRM has stated from the beginning.

 

You're right that this is a fantasy story and not science fiction, but time travel is not unheard of in the fantasy genre. Take the Outlander series (14 books so far) for example by Diana Gabaldon - she's also a personal friend to George who he famously confessed to that he had painted himself into a corner. She told him to get himself a new bucket of paint and paint himself out of it.

There are actually oodles of fantasy novels that have time travel. But I must point out that my inversion theory doesn't necessitate time travel. What it actually is though is that it highlights the ability of weirwoods and the blue shade of the evening to facilitate visions of the future. You might not be able to change the past or present, but if you know what's happened before and that history repeats itself, you can potentially change the future.

The whispering through the weirwood heart trees suggests that Bran may have found a way to influence certain people to action. A great example is Theon who I believe is also the Ghost of Winterfell. You can read my position here: https://houseofblackandwhite.freeforums.net/post/19685/thread

Edited by Melifeather
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

You're right that this is a fantasy story and not science fiction, but time travel is not unheard of in the fantasy genre. Take the Outlander series (14 books so far) for example by Diana Gabaldon - she's also a personal friend to George who he famously confessed to that he had painted himself into a corner. She told him to get himself a new bucket of paint and paint himself out of it.

There are actually oodles of fantasy novels that have time travel. But I must point out that my inversion theory doesn't necessitate time travel. What it actually is though is that it highlights the ability of weirwoods and the blue shade of the evening to facilitate visions of the future. You might not be able to change the past or present, but if you know what's happened before and that history repeats itself, you can potentially change the future.

The whispering through the weirwood heart trees suggests that Bran may have found a way to influence certain people to action. A great example is Theon who I believe is also the Ghost of Winterfell. You can read my position here: https://houseofblackandwhite.freeforums.net/post/19685/thread

Honestly, I'm too confused with my approaches to digest ASoIaF that I only follow your (or anyone else's) theory now and then.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2022 at 10:19 PM, Melifeather said:

IMO Young Griff is Rhaegar and Elia's son. Varys arranged for a baby swap before Rhaegar left for the Trident as a precautionary measure. The child dashed against the wall was but a poor Pisswater Prince. I suspect Septa Lenore is his grandmother, Rhaella. I still believe Jon Snow is Ned's Stark's son fathered on Ashara. *exhale* I sure do hope we get to find out when GRRM finally finishes his story. When he mentioned that he's finished the arc for one of his characters...it makes it sound like he's actually writing Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring.

Tbh I would prefer Young Griff to be son of Rhaegar and Elia, and Jon to be son of Ned and Ashara as well but I am just brainstorming at the moment due to lack of new book. 

@LynnS yes, we are told Ashara's child was a stillborn by Barristan Selmy, appearently a court rumor?, and he thinks the child could look like Daenerys. Though her child could always end up being a boy who lived, Jon or Young Griff - or even Allyria. I know Barristan thinks the child would look like Daenerys due to eye color but, is there a hint to him thinking she could also have light hair color when Ashara had dark hair?

- OT : I don't watch the show about DotD but come across posts about them, one about Visetys 1 being obsessed with having a son for prophecy and sacrifing Aemma about it, it reminded me Rhaegar with Elia/Lyanna but especially Elia who was told she would not survive another birth. What if she was in a  safe place, a House with Red Door when she was pregnant and died giving birth to her third child Daenerys? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Evidence that there are characters that have changed the future by intervening in the present.

Mirri Maz Duur

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

"This was no god's work," Dany said coldly. If I look back I am lost. "You cheated me. You murdered my child within me."

"The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust."

"I spoke for you," she said, anguished. "I saved you."

"Saved me?" The Lhazareen woman spat. "Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god's house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me again what you saved."

Melisandre

Melisandre sees visions of eyeless faces "again" with sockets weeping blood. LC Jon Snow sends out 9 men in groups of 3. One of the groups is led by Dywen and includes Allisor Thorne with one other man. Shortly after sending them out, Melisandre warns Jon that three out of nine will die and have their eyes removed, and it's implied that it will be Dywen's group.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into one another, shapes strange and terrifying and seductive. She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

... Hear me now, Jon Snow. Nine crows flew into the white wood to find your foes for you. Three of them are dead. They have not died yet, but their death is out there waiting for them, and they ride to meet it. You sent them forth to be your eyes in the darkness, but they will be eyeless when they return to you. I have seen their pale dead faces in my flames. Empty sockets, weeping blood." She pushed her red hair back, and her red eyes shone. "You do not believe me. You will. The cost of that belief will be three lives. A small price to pay for wisdom, some might say … but not one you had to pay. Remember that when you behold the blind and ravaged faces of your dead. And come that day, take my hand." The mist rose from her pale flesh, and for a moment it seemed as if pale, sorcerous flames were playing about her fingers. "Take my hand," she said again, "and let me save your sister."

Of course Melisandre came to the Wall because she saw visions of Azor Ahai come again and thought he was Stannis.

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon X

..."Would you know if the king was dead?" Jon asked the red priestess.

"He is not dead. Stannis is the Lord's chosen, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt."

 

Moqorro

Quote

"My hand. What do you know of my hand?"

"I have seen you in the nightfires, Victarion Greyjoy. You come striding through the flames stern and fierce, your great axe dripping blood, blind to the tentacles that grasp you at wrist and neck and ankle, the black strings that make you dance."

"Dance?" Victarion bristled. "Your nightfires lie. I was not made for dancing, and I am no man's puppet." He yanked off his glove and shoved his bad hand at the priest's face. "Here. Is this what you wanted?" The new linen was already discolored by blood and pus. "He had a rose on his shield, the man who gave this to me. I scratched my hand on a thorn."

Moqorro is actively trying to steer Victarion based on visions he's seen in his flames. It's interesting that he also sees tentacles on Victarion's wrist, neck, and ankle and calls them the black strings that make you dance. It seems heavily implied that Euron is controlling him like a puppet.

 

Bran

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - A Ghost in Winterfell

And in the heart of the wood the weirwood waited with its knowing red eyes. Theon stopped by the edge of the pool and bowed his head before its carved red face. Even here he could hear the drumming, boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM. Like distant thunder, the sound seemed to come from everywhere at once.

The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon."

The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. "Please." He fell to his knees. "A sword, that's all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek." Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. "I was ironborn. A son … a son of Pyke, of the islands."

A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "… Bran," the tree murmured.

They know. The gods know. They saw what I did. And for one strange moment it seemed as if it were Bran's face carved into the pale trunk of the weirwood, staring down at him with eyes red and wise and sad. Bran's ghost, he thought, but that was madness. Why should Bran want to haunt him? He had been fond of the boy, had never done him any harm. It was not Bran we killed. It was not Rickon. They were only miller's sons, from the mill by the Acorn Water. "I had to have two heads, else they would have mocked me … laughed at me … they …"

A voice said, "Who are you talking to?"

Theon spun, terrified that Ramsay had found him, but it was just the washerwomen—Holly, Rowan, and one whose name he did not know. "The ghosts," he blurted. "They whisper to me. They … they know my name."

 

 

Edited by Melifeather
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...