Heresy 244 Big Scaly Beasties with Bad Breath

[Black Crow]

16 hours ago, alienarea said:

Out of the two, I would suspect Cersei. She would have had access to Robert's belongings and Jaime would have recognized Valyrian steel.

More in character for Cersei too

[Melifeather]

Last night's episode of HotD showed dragons disobeying their riders. The books imply that the dragons feel their bonded human's emotions so I suppose they were reacting to that, but the dragons ignored their rider's verbal commands. 

[LynnS]

18 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Last night's episode of HotD showed dragons disobeying their riders. The books imply that the dragons feel their bonded human's emotions so I suppose they were reacting to that, but the dragons ignored their rider's verbal commands. 

Yup.  So the war was triggered by accident.  Calls back Viserys saying that it was a conceit to think that they controlled the dragons.  I wonder how Aemon will play this, after he threatened the boy, at Storm's End, in front of witnesses.  Even if he tells his mother the truth, nobody will believe him.  Come back in a year and a half to find out - she says with mild sarcasm.  That's really my only complaint.  Otherwise, well done!

[Frey family reunion]

36 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Last night's episode of HotD showed dragons disobeying their riders. The books imply that the dragons feel their bonded human's emotions so I suppose they were reacting to that, but the dragons ignored their rider's verbal commands. 

Yea, it's hard to tell if the dragons were reacting to their riders' emotions or the dragons simply got caught up in the chase, and their rider's were too inexperienced to take control of the situation.  Lucerys' dragon might have gone on instinct in lashing back against Vhagar, who was chasing him, perhaps because in a flight vs fight instinct these dragons are more attuned to fight than flight.  While Vhagar reacted quite violently and instinctually when he was attacked.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Come back in a year and a half to find out - she says with mild sarcasm. 

For some reason I thought they'd end last night with Rhaenyra being eaten by Synfyre. I guess season 2 will be the actual Dance of the Dragons.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

I wonder how Aemon will play this

Not only does Aemond look like Bloodraven, but they gave him a blazing blue eye??? I'm assuming its a sapphire or something, but why make it look like there's an inner light?

[Matthew.]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

Calls back Viserys saying that it was a conceit to think that they controlled the dragons. 

This was the exact scene I thought of as well. I don't know if this was just the show attempting to make Aemond more sympathetic - by being less complicit - in what happened, or if some of this is coming from GRRM, and is being used as a platform to explore broader ideas about the dragons.

Another dragonlore related scene was that Rhaenyra's stillborn baby, according to the books, had dragon-like features, just as Rhaego did, and the show made a point of cutting between Rhaenyra's labor and Syrax reacting, as if it "knew" what was going on.

[Melifeather]

2 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Not only does Aemond look like Bloodraven, but they gave him a blazing blue eye??? I'm assuming its a sapphire or something, but why make it look like there's an inner light?

Okay, here are my impressions regarding show Aemond.

HotD is trying to make a connection to the GOT show storyline. They repeatedly bring up the prophecy of the dagger and Aegon the Conqueror's dream of the threat from the north. Then they make Aemond look like Bloodraven who sports a blazing blue eye. I think they want us to conclude that Bloodraven and Bran are responsible for creating the white walkers and wights and that Jon Snow will be the fulfillment of the prophecy engraved on the dagger. 

Young Griff would be Aegon the elder if Jon Snow is indeed Aegon the younger. Rhaenyra's son Aegon the younger inherits the throne after the Dance of the Dragon ends. Aegon the elder's three siblings all die during the Dance eliminating Aegon the younger's competition. I think the show is making sure this parallel is demonstrated. Thinking back on the books, Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys, and Young Griff all need to die so that Jon Snow also has no competition and become the sole living Targaryen to face the threat from the north. It's a tidy solution, but still one that I'm not quite ready to accept.

[LynnS]

4 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Not only does Aemond look like Bloodraven, but they gave him a blazing blue eye??? I'm assuming its a sapphire or something, but why make it look like there's an inner light?

I noticed that too.  Certainly a callback to Thistle in the Prologue of Dance.  She was missing her eyes but they were lit with a blue flame.  Not sure what the writers are going for there.  Firelight reflecting from the sapphire?

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Matthew. said:

This was the exact scene I thought of as well. I don't know if this was just the show attempting to make Aemond more sympathetic - by being less complicit - in what happened, or if some of this is coming from GRRM, and is being used as a platform to explore broader ideas about the dragons.

Another dragonlore related scene was that Rhaenyra's stillborn baby, according to the books, had dragon-like features, just as Rhaego did, and the show made a point of cutting between Rhaenyra's labor and Syrax reacting, as if it "knew" what was going on.

I think they are underscoring the telepathic bond but the dragon is the stronger of the pair.

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Okay, here are my impressions regarding show Aemond.

HotD is trying to make a connection to the GOT show storyline. They repeatedly bring up the prophecy of the dagger and Aegon the Conqueror's dream of the threat from the north. Then they make Aemond look like Bloodraven who sports a blazing blue eye. I think they want us to conclude that Bloodraven and Bran are responsible for creating the white walkers and wights and that Jon Snow will be the fulfillment of the prophecy engraved on the dagger. 

Young Griff would be Aegon the elder if Jon Snow is indeed Aegon the younger. Rhaenyra's son Aegon the younger inherits the throne after the Dance of the Dragon ends. Aegon the elder's three siblings all die during the Dance eliminating Aegon the younger's competition. I think the show is making sure this parallel is demonstrated. Thinking back on the books, Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys, and Young Griff all need to die so that Jon Snow also has no competition and become the sole living Targaryen to face the threat from the north. It's a tidy solution, but still one that I'm not quite ready to accept.

That sounds logical.  Was it Cregan Stark who wouldn't allow dragons inside the walls of Winterfell?

[LynnS]

Another thing that comes to mind is the killing of children; in the battle for succession and in the fighting pits in KL.  I think it was Ned who said in the show, that one of the reasons they went to war ,was to stop the killing of children.

 

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Another thing that comes to mind is the killing of children; in the battle for succession and in the fighting pits in KL.  I think it was Ned who said in the show, that one of the reasons they went to war ,was to stop the killing of children.

 

Which I always thought referred to child sacrifice in attempts to hatch dragon eggs. It cannot be about the baby whose head was dashed against a wall during the Sack so which child(ren)?

I don't recall if HotD showed how the Targaryens got eggs to hatch. We've been told that eggs get placed in cradles when a new Targaryen is born, but when does the egg get transferred to a brazier? 

[Frey family reunion]

5 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Not only does Aemond look like Bloodraven, but they gave him a blazing blue eye??? I'm assuming its a sapphire or something, but why make it look like there's an inner light?

I think he was supposed to have a sapphire put in his eye socket according to F&B.

[Melifeather]

George's latest update on Winds:

Quote

 

“It’s a big, big book,” he said. “I’ve said that before, it’s a challenging book. It’s probably going to be a larger book than any of the previous volumes in the series. A Dance with Dragons and A Storm of Swords are the two largest books of the series, they were about 1,500 manuscript pages, I think this one is going to be longer than that by the time I finish it.”

"And I think I’m about 3/4 of the way done maybe, but that’s not 100% done so I have to continue to work on it."

 

 

[Mace Cooterian]

27 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

George's latest update on Winds:

 

3/4's of the way through and it's been 11 years since Dance....so roughly 2025 for a release date.

[LynnS]

History of Westeros translated the song that Daemon sings to Vermithor:

Fire breather

Winged leader

But two heads

To a third sing

From my voice:

The fires have spoken

And the price has been paid

With blood magic

With words of flame

With clear eyes

To bind the three

To you I sing

As one we gather

And with three heads

We shall fly as we were destined

Beautifully, freely

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by LynnS

[Ran]

Petersen actually posted it, with some added notes. 

[Melifeather]

7 hours ago, LynnS said:

History of Westeros translated the song that Daemon sings to Vermithor:

Fire breather

Winged leader

But two heads

To a third sing

From my voice:

The fires have spoken

And the price has been paid

With blood magic

With words of flame

With clear eyes

To bind the three

To you I sing

As one we gather

And with three heads

We shall fly as we were destined

Beautifully, freely

 

That song suggests that the third head of the dragon is a sacrifice. These are the three heads: dragon, rider, and the sacrifice.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Melifeather said:

That song suggests that the third head of the dragon is a sacrifice. These are the three heads: dragon, rider, and the sacrifice.

What was the sacrifice?  Was it an unborn child?