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[Spoilers] Episode 103 Discussion


Ran
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5 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I guess we'll never know what would've happened if Daemon's twins would've been boys (and thus the most senior male line). Would they have inherited instead of Aegon? I would personally say no.

Nonetheless, Rhaenyra should be whitewashed by historians of ASOIAF, not left in the mud, considering her line became the later kings of Westeros.

If they were boys, Velaryons will never throw their lot into Rhaenyra and her bastards.And Daemon wouldnt have to seek Rhaenyra out for male heirs that eluded him.

Even if we assume things go the way they do. They would be senior in line, would be grown men and naturally by primogeniture the true heirs. Corlys will make sure to place his grandon on throne. There wont be any regency needed either. 

Now some might want Aegon III as King for power grab from a long regency and with argument that Baelon injuring Aegon II & killing Sunfyre would dissatisfy green  argument.

Rhaegon will be their ideal choice with his growing dragon Morning.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

But I'm not going with in-universe stuff here ... but rather the official kings list in the appendix of AGoT.

I dunno, I always viewed the appendices as "in-universe" as well.  Even if they aren't, seems to be an extremely minor quibble.

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

In addition, though, as we all know - Rhaenyra Targaryen's bloodline won the Dance. Her sons continued the royal bloodline, she is the mater genetrix of all post-Dance Targaryen monarchs (and the Baratheon dudes as well, at least de iure). In such a setting where blood is everything it just doesn't make sense that folks would ignore or vilify her.

Not acknowledging her as a ruling queen is not the same as "ignoring or vilifying" her.  You're taking a simply listing and extrapolating that to comparisons of Richard III and whatnot, which is just nonsensical.

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The show also hasn't shown anything near enough of the smallfolk. When Rhaenyra's privilege is pointed out it rings hollow without some reference and it's important to show the smallfolk somewhat content at present with the Dance to come ruin everything. Rhaenyra being the "realm's delight" should have in the least been a show don't tell item.

Now I think on it the original GOT was pretty good at this, besides some main characters slumming around with the smallfolk at times they had little smallfolk intros and outros here and there that portrayed mood.

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7 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

The show also hasn't shown anything near enough of the smallfolk. When Rhaenyra's privilege is pointed out it rings hollow without some reference and it's important to show the smallfolk somewhat content at present with the Dance to come ruin everything. Rhaenyra being the "realm's delight" should have in the least been a show don't tell item.

Now I think on it the original GOT was pretty good at this, besides some main characters slumming around with the smallfolk at times they had little smallfolk intros and outros here and there that portrayed mood.

Ironically, the Dance of the Dragons will include many many uses of the Smallfolk and all of them will show them as utter scum.

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4 hours ago, Mithras said:

What is the casual viewer waiting for in this show?

Presumably, sex scenes, gore, and dirty jokes... or just any jokes

On 9/6/2022 at 12:17 AM, DMC said:

Definitely agree that it'd be nice if the show didn't depict Viserys and Rhaenyra basically always at loggerheads once he names her heir.  The reasoning for such in both episodes make sense, but if they keep this up all season it will really make viewers wonder why the hell he didn't change his mind.

^this bit does not make sense to me. Like, what exactly is the reasoning from both sides?

Rhaenyra has been named heir. Her best friend is her new mom, and there are whispers about her half-brother replacing her. However, Rhaenyra does not have specific plans, is not behaving like the heir, even though fully supported by Viserys. Yes, it can get messy when your only parent is constantly pushing you to marry, but the mutual animosity seems to be stemming from something more... which is not clearly explained. 

Edited by slant
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9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Show remains joyless and humourless.

Found the first scene pretty funny tho. 

 

7 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

it'd be very strange if the Maesters of Oldtown wrote anything positive about the Blacks.

I would not. I'd find it very strange that the Maesters would paint positive remarks on the Greens, just as I'd find they'd praise Ned or Maegor.

It really doesn't make sense that Aegon didn't force a more positive spin on his mother's journey. 

7 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

a lot more favorable than Stannis' take on history.

Eh, Stannis is well him.

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

I feel like they next episode is going to address some of the thoughts people have about Alicent and Rhaenyra. It's a fairly important episode for their development.

I'm guessing they'll make Alicent's part huge in what happens with Daemon's second exile and Rhaenyra's marriage . that's what I read from the trailer any way . 

by the way Ran , do you have any info on portrayal of smallfolk and their general feeling about the weak peace king and his three heirs that you can share ? 

my own assumption is that next week we'll finally see smallfolk , most likely watching a comedic play  (the brother.. the daughter .. or  the babe..) . maybe we can finally see people referring to the Realm's Delight. I mean .. if we don't see that , they won't be showing the hedge knights and smallfolk of Riverrun rising for Rhaenyra at the beginning of the war.

Edited by EggBlue
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I’m looking forward to the next three episodes the most. It sounds like the Daemon-Rhaenyra romance starts around episode 7, and I’m not excited for that.

I’ve said this before, but next season will really test the writers’ mettle. ASOIAF has enough subplots to distract from the misery of the war, but FnB doesn’t have that. The sowing of the dragon seeds will probably be fun, but I’m willing to bet that will only be one episode. Most of the political intrigue and interpersonal stuff they’ll have to come up with on their own.

One critique I’m seeing of the show is that it’s repetitive. The past two episodes have had the same conflict between Viserys and Rhaenyra, with Rhaenyra acting a lot less worthy of being the heir in episode 3.

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6 hours ago, frenin said:

I would not. I'd find it very strange that the Maesters would paint positive remarks on the Greens, just as I'd find they'd praise Ned or Maegor.

The first time they wrote an anti-Green book, would be the first time the Hightowers of Oldtown would dump them in a bag of rats in the bay.

The Hightowers remain the rulers of Oldtown at the end of the Dance.

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3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m looking forward to the next three episodes the most. It sounds like the Daemon-Rhaenyra romance starts around episode 7, and I’m not excited for that.

I’ve said this before, but next season will really test the writers’ mettle. ASOIAF has enough subplots to distract from the misery of the war, but FnB doesn’t have that. The sowing of the dragon seeds will probably be fun, but I’m willing to bet that will only be one episode. Most of the political intrigue and interpersonal stuff they’ll have to come up with on their own.

One critique I’m seeing of the show is that it’s repetitive. The past two episodes have had the same conflict between Viserys and Rhaenyra, with Rhaenyra acting a lot less worthy of being the heir in episode 3.

I'm hoping Season 3 allows the show to breathe and organic relationships to emerge between the actors on srceen. The show is trying so hard to go through the timeline that we don't have time to do any casual worldbuilding or humor. Which can be written in next season and the seasons after that.

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Met my dad's boss today. 

He's basically the "We have GRRM at home" version from the joke. He has the same chunky bodyshape, the same voice, the same LAUGH, a very similar face, all he misses out on is the beard and the hat.

It was creepy, and I got goosepbumps everytime he was laughing: The laugh was identical, man.

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What do you think of the dream business?

I'm not sure Viserys another motivational layer to name a son his heir. I mean, it is all there for him, considering that he only got the throne because he was a man, basically, so the notion that he should name a female heir was always very, well, unusual.

And Otto is very much right in the episode - the birth of a royal son should make everything more clear, it is like Viserys returning from Lys later on, a clear male heir is there.

In that sense, I think, it could have been much more potent if Viserys had dreamed about a daughter on the throne rather than a son ... and thus his conflict would be about tradition and how he himself gained the throne vs. the whole prophecy/destiny/magical sphere.

Especially in light of what happens later with Rhaenyra, Criston, Laenor, Harwin, and Daemon ... a mythical or magical backing of this decision to name an heir could have worked better than the reversed thing. Because as things stand now Rhaenyra is basically only kept as heir because of Viserys' guilt trip over Aemma's death. Regardless how the various scandals go down, the show didn't really sell it strongly enough, I think, that Viserys just loves his daughter so much. For that they quarrel too often.

Hell, they could have even played around with Jaehaerys II weirdo decision to marry Aerys to Rhaella because of prophecy ... Viserys could have correctly guessed that the promised prince would be born from Rhaenyra's bloodline.

Also, I must say, I really like Otto's reluctance about turning against Rhaenyra and Alicent's even greater reluctance. It is something very few people seem to get that this conflict slowly developed. The war could have been averted the entire time, it was never a given ... most especially not back when Alicent married Viserys or when she gave birth to Aegon. This is the time when they were all still friends or at least cordial.

And the context is also pretty good there - Rhaenyra starts as somebody who is more or less at daddy's mercy. He can name her heir ... or somebody else. It is all about him and his decisions. Once she comes into her own, has a family of her own, and power of her own ... things are more complicated.

Pushing aside Laenor's wife would already have been a considerable challenge ... and once she and Daemon marry harder still.

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