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[Spoilers] Episode 103 Discussion


Ran
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Man, that battle story was butchered.

Dumb scene with Daemon getting arrowed but not firing the archers before leaving, dumb explanation for them "losing" the war, outdoor leadership council in front of everyone for no reason, Daemon storming in with no clear purpose ... and, no, he wasn't just risking himself, he was killing himself for no reason because there was clearly no possible victory against that many people ... the crab people ran out for no reason but to force them to lose, everyone else showing up at the last second, a previously unknown Dragonrider suddenly appearing without backstory, said Dragonrider finally doing the obvious and taking out the archers after what appears to be two or three years and the whole thing being wrapped up in a neat little bow so quickly that it was possibly the most anticlimactic villain defeat l I've ever seen.

It was really, really, really poorly conceived and executed from start to finish in almost every detail.

 

... with the exception of the hilarious scene where the guy was excited he was about ready to get rescued before the dragon landed on him. Out of place, but pretty funny.

Edited by Ser Not Appearing
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38 minutes ago, RumHam said:

They may have even been mates for a while. I think the book only mentions Syrax and Caraxes producing eggs but who knows.

come to think of it , Vhaegar kills 2 of the dragons she may have had as mates during the dance : Caraxes and Maelys . you know , Maelys was Alyssa's dragon and Vhaegar was Baelon's .... 

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5 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I suspect it will be. There's something in The World of Ice and Fire about Aegon III feeling he needed dragons because people were opposing him. Given how much he hated them he must have really been facing some serious threats. 

well we know his regency.

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6 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I suspect it will be. There's something in The World of Ice and Fire about Aegon III feeling he needed dragons because people were opposing him. Given how much he hated them he must have really been facing some serious threats. 

Pretty sure Morning is not going to be poisoned but will die in the final dragon battle as part of the belated attempt to deal with Aemond's son. Either the boy already has a dragon as folks claimed in FaB ... or he will claim one of the surviving riderless dragons - the Cannibal or Silverwing.

But I actually guess he might already have a dragon - and that will be the reason why Aegon III doesn't move against him while he is still young because he is afraid of dragons. And will, of course, also forbid Rhaena to pretend she was a warrior dragonrider, etc.

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Didn't like this episode much. Too many small things felt slightly off.

- Is Viserys supposed to be sick, drunk, depressed, tortured... ?
- The whole hart thing was weird. I did think the Hightowers had brought the animal there on purpose... Since they apparently didn't, I'm not too sure what meaning it's supposed to have. In a world where magic does exist, no answer seems obvious: let's remember that the first episode of GoT used animals prophetically... But in this case, it seems Rhaenyra should not have seen it.
- The boar attack felt weird, because Cole is the one who stops it, but he doesn't immediately help Rhaenyra from under it.
- The entire battle was messy as fuck, poorly presented in many ways. I can acept Daemon's "bravery", but why introduce an interesting antagonist (crab-guy) to kill him off-screen? And those whigs look increasingly ridiculous.

Fortunately, Millie Alcock steals a few scenes, which properly establishes Rhaenyra as a badass.

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7 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

- The whole hart thing was weird. I did think the Hightowers had brought the animal there on purpose... Since they apparently didn't, I'm not too sure what meaning it's supposed to have. In a world where magic does exist, no answer seems obvious: let's remember that the first episode of GoT used animals prophetically... But in this case, it seems Rhaenyra should not have seen it.

Why shouldn't she have seen it? She's the true heir.

Just like the dire wolves and the starks, its a portent she's the rightful queen.

Which is how I suspect the show will present it. They're going full Black.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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Here is my take on the episode:

The Stepstones action was good, it just needed flushed out a little more.  I agree that Laenor appearing on Seasmoke came out of nowhere.  Am I the only one who wanted to see the fight between Daemon and Crabfeeder?  I feel a little jilted by them not including it, it could have been a good fight.  Plus it would have fleshed out Daemon’s ruthlessness some.  Him going there alone was him saying to his brother, “I’m either going to win this without your help or die and make you feel guilty for not helping sooner”.  It was bold move that helps to flush out his character and how he feels about the kingly aspect of Viserys.

The hunting party was good.  I like how they portrayed Viserys as being all alone even when he is surrounded by people.  He is feeling conflicted because of being the King and what is expected with the role, and being Rhaenyra’s father. I like the implication of the white stag.  Everyone thinks that it means Aegon should be named heir, the fact that they didn’t catch it only solidified in Viserys’ mind that he made the right call on keeping Rhaenyra as heir.  It also implied that if the realm would have accepted her and there was no fighting, she could have made a good Queen.  Instead all of her loses, due to the battle with the Greens, drove her to be “Maegor with teats”.  Also Viserys’ drunken admission to Alicent might be the motive that the Greens use to crown Aegon.  I really think that Alicent is going to let that tidbit slip, maybe not intentionally.

Why are they portraying Rhaenyra as a petulant kid who is mad that her dad remarried?  With her seeing the white stag, one thinks that the show is trying to get you to align with the Blacks once theDance starts.  Also, Alicent had no say so in the decision for Viserys to marry her.  Otto was the one steering that horse.  Alicent is trying to mend the broken relationship with her dearest friend.

I liked the episode.  Yes they should have had the lead up to the Dance last 1 1/2- 2 seasons.  But, we have to live with what we are getting, I just hope they do the Dance justice.

That’s all I have for now, until I do my rewatch on Thursday.

Edited by TheValonqarThatWasAzorAhai
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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Especially since all the promo material makes adult Alicent look like a lunatic.

I expect both Laenor and Laena’s deaths to prompt backlash. So far my Internet-Meltdown-O-Meter has been on point.

In fairness to the showrunners though, I don’t get the impression that they’re deliberately trying to shock people like on GOT (or Euphoria lol). They do appear to be trying to make something genuinely artistic.

Incidentally I think it's the actors who are putting the most artistic effort into the characterization. The writers are asleep at the wheel with very unartistic and formal dialogue meant to be expository. 

I agree they are not going for shock and awe. But what are they suppose to do? The characters in the first half of the season won't be the same characters of the second half so much of what the mainstream audience is preparing for will be subverted. 

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1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

Incidentally I think it's the actors who are putting the most artistic effort into the characterization. The writers are asleep at the wheel with very unartistic and formal dialogue meant to be expository. 

I agree they are not going for shock and awe. But what are they suppose to do? The characters in the first half of the season won't be the same characters of the second half so much of what the mainstream audience is preparing for will be subverted. 

I wonder what the regular non-book reading audience is expecting.

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Here’s a weird omission: Aegon’s dragon. There was no mention of whether he was given an egg or if it hatched.

 

It looks like HBO is no longer releasing viewing figures. Maybe LOTR affected their numbers after all. I’m glad they didn’t make us wait any longer to watch the show, but considering that Sunday night football starts very soon, it would seem wiser to have waited until the spring.

Disclaimer: HOTD is clearly very successful. Many people are watching it. It will win plenty of awards. I’m just a random person on the internet who has no influence over any of this and who no one needs to listen to. That is all.

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s a weird omission: Aegon’s dragon. There was no mention of whether he was given an egg or if it hatched.

 

It looks like HBO is no longer releasing viewing figures. Maybe LOTR affected their numbers after all. I’m glad they didn’t make us wait any longer to watch the show, but considering that Sunday night football starts very soon, it would seem wiser to have waited until the spring.

Disclaimer: HOTD is clearly very successful. Many people are watching it. It will win plenty of awards. I’m just a random person on the internet who has no influence over any of this and who no one needs to listen to. That is all.

Nope.

25 million.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a40911484/house-of-the-dragon-episode-3-recap/

Like it or not, House of the Dragon Episode Three begins with a time jump. Over two years have passed since the events of the second episode, apparently. The new Queen, Alicent Hightower, has finally given King Viserys a male heir, named Aegon. We're at the young prince's second birthday, where everyone is eager to celebrate. You know who else has something to celebrate? HBO. If a raven hasn't delivered the message to you yet, House of the Dragon doubled its massive viewership numbers last Sunday from roughly 10 million viewers—to over 25 million.

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2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Nope.

25 million.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a40911484/house-of-the-dragon-episode-3-recap/

Like it or not, House of the Dragon Episode Three begins with a time jump. Over two years have passed since the events of the second episode, apparently. The new Queen, Alicent Hightower, has finally given King Viserys a male heir, named Aegon. We're at the young prince's second birthday, where everyone is eager to celebrate. You know who else has something to celebrate? HBO. If a raven hasn't delivered the message to you yet, House of the Dragon doubled its massive viewership numbers last Sunday from roughly 10 million viewers—to over 25 million.

Yes, it’s saying that as of last Sunday, 25 million people had watched the show, which was up from the original 10 million on the night of the premiere.
 

A recap wouldn’t have the most recent episode’s numbers because those are published within hours of the airing, and the networks don’t release the numbers until the following afternoon. If you Google it, HBO hasn’t said anything, at least not yet.

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4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Baela wasn’t allowed to fight in the books either; she only got involved because Aegon showed up on Dragonstone.

That was yet another big mistake on the part of Rhaenyra and Daemon...but especially Daemon.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Aegon III will be an unpopular king, unlike Daeron I or Baelor the Blessed, so it stands that his reign will be troubled and his very kingship will be challenged on more than one occasion.

He will prevail eventually with the help of his brother, his half-sisters, his cousin Alyn Velaryon, and other friends he has. But it might be a close thing.

I think Aegon III was an unpopular king because of his character. Obviously, he suffered and witnessed traumas that very few people in RL and in Planetos will have experienced. I don't begrudge him of that but I think Aegon struggled with legitimate mental health issues all his life and I don't think that the people of Westerosi would be tolerant of it. And to be fair, he probably should've been removed or asked to resign from the Iron Throne. And given that such traumas influenced his personality, he probably wasn't a very nice person.

And given the amount of devastation that all the people endured on his behalf (for better or worse, ally or enemy), that would probably piss a lot of people off.

 

Basically, when I think of Aegon III and the general response to him and his reign, I think of how people would feel about having Stannis as a king and Shireen as a queen after him. Very unfavorable.

Unlike Stannis, I think Aegon was probably loveable and endearing to all those who were very close to him (i.e. brother, half-sisters, wife, children, cousin, etc.) but an extremely miserable and stingy person to everyone else. And unlike Stannis, Aegon wouldn't have a good reason for doing so...meaning Stannis is mostly unlikeable because of his deep, obsessive hatred of injustice, corruption and incompetence which are all good things. Aegon will probably be unlikeable because he doesn't do anything but sit around and be miserably toxic.

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Actually, I thought Aegon III had a relatively straightforward reign once he was finally in charge of his own destiny. He adopted a policy of bread and circuses ("grain and dancing bears") while avoding any particular major fuck ups. The fact he was moody and unpleasant in person doesn't mean anything to 99% of the populace.

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Finally got home and I watched the episode. I can say now that I finally love this show. (Please don't disappoint!!!) The royal hunt was magnificent and it really got me immersed. It also served to enlarge the world more with bringing in the Lannisters, the Redwynes, Otto's brother, and Lord Strong's sons, as well as the myriad of smaller houses there. Recall Robert's hunt from GoT, what a bad joke and that was in the best regarded season of the show. Sure the budget helps, but the dialogue and other writing was just really strong here.

Paddy continues to be my favorite actor, but others have grown on me as well. Without any dialogue, Matt Smith managed to finally make Daemon be the unpredictable, dangerous guy he is. 

Daemon solo's action act was contrived and smacked a bit too much of Jon Snow at the BoB. The archers on the cliffs shouldn't have been firing volleys on command, but actually just aim at him at will. However, it got better once Daemon actually got hit by arrows. Corlys fighting with a bardiche was maybe the highlight for me in that battle. Too bad we didn't see Rhaenys on the dragon. I thought that was her that initially fired up the archers on the cliff, but afterwards it seemed it was only Laenor. 

I think the time jump is fine, as both the dialogue and visual elements give us enough to get us caught up.

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