Rings of Power: Three Threads for the Elven Lords (book spoilers)

[TheReal_Rebel]

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

But why overlay the two so frantically if unrelated? 

So we’d be unsure and talk about it.  Is he Sauron or is he a Blue Wizard?  

I’m enjoying the show and even my easing going hackles would be raised if it’s Gandalf.

Particularly, when a lot of us truly want to see the Blue Wizards operating in the South and South East to thrawt Sauron.  Or at least one Wizard.

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Wizards

I don’t even know if we will find out who Sauron is this season.
 

But I’ve always wondered what Sauron would look like in his own normal physical form, bossing Orcs around, relaxing on his throne, plotting his plots.

He’s both physical and a Spirit he’s done hideously evil things and he knows he’s done evil.  Would his physical body reflect that?  Unlikely, if you want to get Elves to listen to you.

[fionwe1987]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

Yeah, along with the dragonflies dying, this is my saving grace - because otherwise it definitely seems like meteor man is Gandalf, which I hate.  Like others I haven't read the Silm or Unfinished Tales in years, but while it's not stated, that has to be the assumption among the elves, right?  That he's a Maia?  Dude shows up and has prodigious forging "powers," so what else are the elves supposed to assume?

He promoted the idea that he was an emissary of the Valar. 

Quote

In Eregion Sauron posed as an emissary of the Valar, sent by them to Middle-earth (‘thus anticipating the Istari’) or ordered by them to remain there to give aid to the Elves. He perceived at once that Galadriel would be his chief adversary and obstacle, and he endeavoured therefore to placate her, bearing her scorn with outward patience and courtesy. [No explanation is offered in this rapid outline of why Galadriel scorned Sauron, unless she saw through his disguise, or of why, if she did perceive his true nature, she permitted him to remain in Erigion].

The rest of this version of Galadriel's story obviously disagrees with what ROP is doing with her (she's nowhere near Erigion, let along being co-ruler with Celeborn), but this part nearly fits the story if Sauron is the meteor man. I can totally see him claim connection with the Harfoots to allay fears, and claim to be an emissary of the Valar.

Galadriel consciously doesn't see a meteor leaving Valinor. She'd see right through his ruse and suspect something, which would also fit what is the case in terms of Galadriel's interactions with Annatar in several versions of her story.

The I read Galadriel's story in UT, the calmer I become about what the show is doing with her. It's still not ideal or anything, but it needn't necessarily be a collosal deviation either. 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

The rest of this version of Galadriel's story obviously disagrees with what ROP is doing with her (she's nowhere near Erigion, let along being co-ruler with Celeborn), but this part nearly fits the story if Sauron is the meteor man. I can totally see him claim connection with the Harfoots to allay fears, and claim to be an emissary of the Valar.

Well, we'll see.  While Galadriel appears to have arrived at Numenor right now, it's entirely possible she returns to Middle Earth/Eregion/Lothlorien by the time "Annatar" shows up.  Based on her characterization and the show's focus therein thus far, I anticipate if they do include the "Annatar" aspect of Sauron that will almost certainly entail Galadriel meeting him and not trusting him to further emphasize her wisdom vis-a-vis, well, everybody else.

[TheReal_Rebel]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, we'll see.  While Galadriel appears to have arrived at Numenor right now, it's entirely possible she returns to Middle Earth/Eregion/Lothlorien by the time "Annatar" shows up.  Based on her characterization and the show's focus therein thus far, I anticipate if they do include the "Annatar" aspect of Sauron that will almost certainly entail Galadriel meeting him and not trusting him to further emphasize her wisdom vis-a-vis, well, everybody else.

I don’t think the name Annatar will be used, as I don’t that name appears in the appendices.  But then again the names might not be a copyright issue.

Of course Galadriel meets Annatar/Sauron.  That’s a pinnacle dramatic event in the Second Age. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

I don’t think the name Annatar will be used, as I don’t that name appears in the appendices.  But then again the names might not be a copyright issue.

I mean, as long as he's not introducing himself as Sauron, it really doesn't matter if he uses the name Annatar or something different...that's kind of the whole point of making up the name Annatar.

[TheReal_Rebel]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I mean, as long as he's not introducing himself as Sauron, it really doesn't matter if he uses the name Annatar or something different...that's kind of the whole point of making up the name Annatar.

My point is that if Meteor Man turns out to be a Blue Wizard, if copyright applies, he might not be identified as a Blue Wizard or Alatar or Pallando by anything other than a Wizard.  
 

But Annatar is very specific. It means “Lord of Gifts” and it is a clue for someone like Galadriel and the audience—whether they’ve read the books or not—that something is fishy.  Who would call themself that?  Someone attempting a con job.  We’ll see how they handle it.

[DMC]

17 minutes ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

But Annatar is very specific it means Lord of Gifts and it is a clue for someone like Galadriel and the audience—whether they’ve read the books or not—that something is fishy.

Sure, it'd be a blatant tipoff to viewers - even non-book readers wouldn't be able to avoid the internet frenzy over it - but it shouldn't be to Galadriel.  Regardless, obviously if he's "Annatar" he wouldn't be one of the Blue Wizards nor another member of the Maia (which I still think is a possibility).  Don't really get your point here.

[fionwe1987]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Well, we'll see.  While Galadriel appears to have arrived at Numenor right now, it's entirely possible she returns to Middle Earth/Eregion/Lothlorien by the time "Annatar" shows up.  Based on her characterization and the show's focus therein thus far, I anticipate if they do include the "Annatar" aspect of Sauron that will almost certainly entail Galadriel meeting him and not trusting him to further emphasize her wisdom vis-a-vis, well, everybody else.

Well yes. Whether he's meteor man or not, Sauron will be meeting Galadriel, and she will be suspicious. That much seems a given, based on the show so far. 

[TheReal_Rebel]

49 minutes ago, DMC said:

Sure, it'd be a blatant tipoff to viewers - even non-book readers wouldn't be able to avoid the internet frenzy over it - but it shouldn't be to Galadriel.  Regardless, obviously if he's "Annatar" he wouldn't be one of the Blue Wizards nor another member of the Maia (which I still think is a possibility).  Don't really get your point here.

I was merely talking about copyright, how if it applies, how it could change character names and how it might effect our understanding of who they are.

I didn’t say anything about Annatar being a Blue Wizard.
 

 

[DMC]

33 minutes ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

I was merely talking about copyright, how if it applies, how it could change character names and how it might effect our understanding of who they are.

I didn’t say anything about Annatar being a Blue Wizard.

Well, no, you were talking about Annatar - albeit not as a Blue Wizard, which I never suggested either - when you said...

1 hour ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

But Annatar is very specific. It means “Lord of Gifts” and it is a clue for someone like Galadriel and the audience—whether they’ve read the books or not—that something is fishy.

...Which obviously has everything to do with how the name "Annatar" would be interpreted by viewers.  But whatever, it's not a big deal.

[Ran]

Apropos of nothing, saw this blast from the past floating around: unused DVD commentary for LotR by Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. 

[TheReal_Rebel]

In RoP, why does Celebrimbor need to get the foundry started by Spring?

Speaking of Lord Annatar, has he all ready approached Celebrimbor?  Seems like it.

I enjoy Tolkien, but man is the creator of his own grief through lack of self-awareness, not exterior forces of evil.

 

 

[DMC]

43 minutes ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

In RoP, why does Celebrimbor need to get the foundry started by Spring?

Yeah after Galadriel's swim this was definitely the second most stupid thing about the first two episodes for me.  Maybe it will be explained later, but it's like..dude, you're immortal, wtf is the rush?

[slant]

It seemed like someone told the executives make an epic fantasy series that represents a diverse variety of people to rival the popularity of Game of Thrones so the showrunners went all out

- Climbing a 'wall' sequence
- Attack by (sea) dragon
- A scene that appears like mystical human sacrifice 
- A red comet streaking across the skies which seems to be some kind of meteor? 

It's hilarious that the Dwarf women have no beards? Where have they all been so far then lol?

 

On 9/6/2022 at 6:17 AM, Iskaral Pust said:

The scale doesn’t work.  Not even close.  Medieval agricultural food surplus wasn’t that large, so huge populations of serf farmers would be required to support Dwarf cities.  And road-based trade would have been very slow and hugely inefficient— just look at how hard it was to transport food supplies for armies; just feeding the draught animals used a large fraction of the food mass.  Laketown was the closest to a plausible food supply system, but still not that close for the population size indicated.

I fear this may result in another Lemongate

[The Marquis de Leech]

43 minutes ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

In RoP, why does Celebrimbor need to get the foundry started by Spring?

Speaking of Lord Annatar, has he all ready approached Celebrimbor?  Seems like it.

Nah, I think this is Celebrimbor going off on one of his crazy plans, not something Annatat has pushed him into. I think the Spring thing is just him being an impatient mad scientist.

[TheReal_Rebel]

22 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Nah, I think this is Celebrimbor going off on one of his crazy plans, not something Annatat has pushed him into. I think the Spring thing is just him being an impatient mad scientist.

I’d prefer this, actually, as it’s in keeping with the lore.

Also, the making of something seems High King Gil-Galad is pushing Celebrimbor for.  It’s a project of which he approves.

[Veltigar]

Meteor Man is clearly evil. Not sure whether that means Sauron or something else, but the eye symbolism, dead fireflies and the fact that the show heavily implies that one of his magic freak-outs broke that harfoot's ankle is more than enough indication for me. Give it a few episodes until the obviously evil sword from the humanb/elf sexy times storyline intersects with the harfoot storyline and he'll regain his composure.

[mormont]

The problem with criticising the wall-climbing scene is that the metal 'armour' they're wearing at the time is clearly fantasy armour. It doesn't remotely resemble realistic metal armour. There's no reason to suppose, then, that it would cause the same sort of issues. Certainly the armour they're wearing doesn't seem to weigh much. 

(It would be difficult but feasible, speaking as someone with experience wearing real metal armour, to climb ice walls in it: and if you really had to do it, it would be easier to do it wearing the armour than carrying it.

[slant]

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

Meteor Man is clearly evil. Not sure whether that means Sauron or something else, but the eye symbolism, dead fireflies and the fact that the show heavily implies that one of his magic freak-outs broke that harfoot's ankle is more than enough indication for me. Give it a few episodes until the obviously evil sword from the humanb/elf sexy times storyline intersects with the harfoot storyline and he'll regain his composure.

Omg, I thought meteor man was Gandalf! 

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

The problem with criticising the wall-climbing scene is that the metal 'armour' they're wearing at the time is clearly fantasy armour. It doesn't remotely resemble realistic metal armour. There's no reason to suppose, then, that it would cause the same sort of issues. Certainly the armour they're wearing doesn't seem to weigh much. 

(It would be difficult but feasible, speaking as someone with experience wearing real metal armour, to climb ice walls in it: and if you really had to do it, it would be easier to do it wearing the armour than carrying it.

I always assumed Elves were physically stronger than men, so this stuff didn't really bother me, but a quick google suggests this isn't true and now I hate everything in LOTR.