Rings of Power: Three Threads for the Elven Lords (book spoilers)

[Le Cygne]

Regarding the Jackson change of Faramir being tempted by the ring, hated it, it felt like GoT making Jaime say he didn't care about the people of Kings Landing. It was a character defining moment for both, that they blew off.

However... overall thought the adaptation was good, including Faramir, although not that you had to watch some key Faramir and Eowyn scenes in the extended version (which I watch anyway but not everyone does, so...)

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

I am hoping that we are "over the hump" so far as getting plot-silliness out the way. They wanted to show Galadriel reject Valinor, and find herself stuck in Middle-earth. They wanted to get her to Numenor (she's a focal point character, after all). OK. They've done that, in a hamfisted way. Time to move forward with the story.

I'm hoping this too.  A fool's hope, perhaps.

[The Marquis de Leech]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:22 AM, SeanF said:

While the really big sales of LOTR lay in the future, I did read that Tolkien's first royalty, in 1956, was £3,500, which is worth £82,000 today, if linked to prices, £217,000 if linked to earnings.  Combined with royalties from The Hobbit, which sold well from the outset, he must have been earning quite a lot.  £100,000 in 1969 is worth £1.8 m today, if you link it to inflation, £3.3 m if you link it earnings.

I'm guessing that Agatha Christie, Denis Wheatley, John Le Carre, were all earning more, but Tolkien must have been among the top twenty biggest earners among British authors in the 1960s.

Christie - far wealthier by this time than Tolkien ever was - likes to include characters complaining about income taxation in her post-war novels. Taxation levels were clearly an issue close to the heart (or at least the pockets) of the big British authors of the era. 

[Ran]

The era was a crazy one, as the Beatles attested on Revolver with the George Harrison-penned "Taxman":

Quote

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five percent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman

This refers to the 1964-1965 when the top marginal tax rate was set to 95%. 

[Gaston de Foix]

4 hours ago, Tongue Stuck to Wall said:

At first I thought it was something lame like Elrond has been ostracized because he's Half-elven, but I guess they were setting him up as Gil-Galad's admin assistant who has to earn his spurs before he can be elevated to elf-lord status (which is also lame).

Celebrimbor's speech about the silmarils was kind of funny given Elrond's heritage.  Too bad the scene didn't take place in the early evening or dawn; Elrond could have shrugged a shoulder at Earendil out the window - "Yes, my family has some passing familiarity with these jewels of which you speak."

 

Celebrimbor himself is Feanor's grandson.  So there's a lot of family history there.  I'm curious why they ignored both those family legacies.  IP issues?

5 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Is Arondir the father of Bronwyn's son? It sure feels they set it up that way, both with the casting, the kid's hair that covers his ears, and the talk about him not knowing who his father is. Though maybe not, because Arondir seems to ignore the kid, caring only for Bronwyn.

Maybe Theo's father was another elf? 

[Gaston de Foix]

5 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I don't think the Stranger is Sauron because the Orcs have already been starting to do stuff and gather their strength. I saw some people think it might be him because the fire around him doesn't burn Nori and the eye symbolism of the crater. But at this point I would be annoyed if it's a Maia sent by the Valar, like the Istari were. (Though of course it's likely a Maia) I may accept it if the Stranger is a Maia who went against the will of the Valar to go help the peoples of ME against Sauron, and that is why we got the whole amnesia plot.

It's pretty clearly a young Gandalf IMHO.  Amazon has tried do this in a paint-by-the-numbers way, and introducing favorite characters from the movies at younger ages is a crowd-pleasing choice which they hope will attract casual fans of LOTR.  

[The Bard of Banefort]

I’ll say this for Galadriel: the angry warrior arc works for me because there needs to be some kind of journey for the character to go on. We know she’s not going to die or be seriously injured, but we don’t know how she’s going to transition from someone filled with rage and vengeance to the serene sorceress we meet in Fellowship. Same with Elrond—we’ll get to see him become less optimistic, less trusting, more harsh. I think it was the right call. 

[The hairy bear]

43 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Amazon has tried do this in a paint-by-the-numbers way, and introducing favorite characters from the movies at younger ages is a crowd-pleasing choice which they hope will attract casual fans of LOTR.  

If it was a marketing ploy to attract viewers from the movies, wouldn't it make more sense not to make Gandalf's identity a mystery? Trailers with young Gandalf arriving by ship to the Grey Havens would have appealed the casual viewer much more than a random stranger falling in a meteor.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

It's pretty clearly a young Gandalf IMHO.  Amazon has tried do this in a paint-by-the-numbers way, and introducing favorite characters from the movies at younger ages is a crowd-pleasing choice which they hope will attract casual fans of LOTR.  

Duh.

Nerds the world over have spent the last few years going gaga over baby Yoda, why wouldn't you do Baby Gandalf? 

8 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

If it was a marketing ploy to attract viewers from the movies, wouldn't it make more sense not to make Gandalf's identity a mystery?

I didn't realize it had been revealed.

10 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Trailers with young Gandalf arriving by ship to the Grey Havens would have appealed the casual viewer much more than a random stranger falling in a meteor.

This is cinema and that was one hell of an entrance. Don't change a thing. 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

The era was a crazy one, as the Beatles attested on Revolver with the George Harrison-penned "Taxman":

This refers to the 1964-1965 when the top marginal tax rate was set to 95%. 

I don’t think even the Soviet Union had a maximum income tax rate that high at the time (equally bizarrely, the Soviets were selling municipal housing to tenants a generation before the Thatcher government did).

As against that, income tax thresholds were much higher, relative to earnings, than they are today;  capital gains were taxed lightly (good accountants could always convert income to capital gains);  and business expenses were treated a lot more generously than today.  

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Well, they could have given it to JJ Abrams or Zach Snyder.

Legend of the Guardians is better than any of the Hobbit films. 

[Gaston de Foix]

44 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

If it was a marketing ploy to attract viewers from the movies, wouldn't it make more sense not to make Gandalf's identity a mystery? Trailers with young Gandalf arriving by ship to the Grey Havens would have appealed the casual viewer much more than a random stranger falling in a meteor.

A good point.  But that's why I was wondering whether are copyright issues.  Wasn't there something about the Istarl in the Silmarillion? There definitely was in Unfinished Tales.  That may be why they invented a new origin story for Gandalf.  

Also, FWIW, I agree with you that they should have done all five Istari, rather than just Gandalf.  They could given us our first sight of Alatar and Pallando! 

[Farerb]

Samba TV announced that 1.8M U.S. households watched the premiere of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power during its first four days available on Prime Video, compared to 4.8M for the premiere of House of the Dragon.

[Ran]

4 minutes ago, farerb said:

Samba TV announced that 1.8M U.S. households watched the premiere of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power during its first four days available on Prime Video, compared to 4.8M for the premiere of House of the Dragon.

In just the first 6 hours of release Samba TV estimated 2.6 million households for HotD.

I don't know if there's the possibility that Samba is better able to track traditional TV viewing vs. streaming, in which case HBO obviously has an advantage.

[SpaceChampion]

 

[fionwe1987]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:53 AM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Film Denethor irritates me to this day.  I was looking forward to seeing that character expecting something interesting… we got the tomato muncher and the flaming 5K.  And for the record it wasn’t the actor… it was the writting and direction of that character.

I loathe film Denethor. Not only because he's such an inferior character compared to the book version, but because writing him the way they did really made RotK a significantly worse movie. 

On 9/5/2022 at 2:25 PM, Calibandar said:

 

• The Stranger scenes are fascinating. I dont think its Sauron at all. The use of fireflies to me seemed a clear callback to Gandalf speaking to moths. Still they are deliberately making it unclear who he is but surely at this point an Istar or something else is far more likely than Sauron. Nothing about the character says Sauron to me. They are suggesting he literally fell from the sky and is from a different constellation..... that has nothing to do with Sauron.

The fireflies die though. That doesn't seem Gandalf-like at all.

9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I don't think the Stranger is Sauron because the Orcs have already been starting to do stuff and gather their strength. I saw some people think it might be him because the fire around him doesn't burn Nori and the eye symbolism of the crater. But at this point I would be annoyed if it's a Maia sent by the Valar, like the Istari were. (Though of course it's likely a Maia) I may accept it if the Stranger is a Maia who went against the will of the Valar to go help the peoples of ME against Sauron, and that is why we got the whole amnesia plot.

What if it is Sauron pretending to be a Maia sent by the Valar? That's kind of what Annatar did, right? Sauron would have some incentive to appear in a dramatic way that confuses his origins. 

That still sounds ridiculous to me, but less so than the Valar deciding to send Gandalf early and on a meteor of all things. 

A random Maia could work. Maybe this proto-Istar screws things up royally so the Valar decide to use ships instead of meteors. 

9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I disliked in episode 1 how apparently Elrond is not considered an Elf-lord. Excuse me? Do the Appendices not mention his lineage?

Gil Galad makes it clear he thinks Elrond is on the path to power. Maybe it's just an age thing? 

9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Khazad-dûm has been my favorite place so far and the character interactions were a highlight. It's a shame none of that was given to Celebrimbor though. And I did like what I've seen of Celebrimbor so far, how much the legacy of Fëanor weighs on him.

Celibrimbor's dwarf bestie was Narvi. If they give us the formation of that friendship, that could work out, I think. 

9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Each race does feel unique and developed, so I have some hope for the Dúnedain.

Yes how Numenor is depicted and integrated into the show will be crucial. They have the most interesting storyline for the Second Age. Screw them up early and to me, that'll be a sign the show doesn't have much room to improve. Do a half decent job with them and there would be room to grow. 

[Rhom]

So one thing I wasn't clear on... did Meteor Man break proto Hobbit dad's ankle?  He was scrying with a stick and then the ankle snaps.  So was he trying to warn that something bad was happening?  Or did he break his ankle?   

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

So one thing I wasn't clear on... did Meteor Man break proto Hobbit dad's ankle?  He was scrying with a stick and then the ankle snaps.  So was he trying to warn that something bad was happening?  Or did he break his ankle?   

He was using the stick to write the constellation that he needs for the Stargate coordinates. 

The dad slipped and the weight of the pole was too much for his ankle.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, fionwe1987 said:

What if it is Sauron pretending to be a Maia sent by the Valar? That's kind of what Annatar did, right? Sauron would have some incentive to appear in a dramatic way that confuses his origins. 

Yeah, along with the dragonflies dying, this is my saving grace - because otherwise it definitely seems like meteor man is Gandalf, which I hate.  Like others I haven't read the Silm or Unfinished Tales in years, but while it's not stated, that has to be the assumption among the elves, right?  That he's a Maia?  Dude shows up and has prodigious forging "powers," so what else are the elves supposed to assume?

[Rhom]

58 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

He was using the stick to write the constellation that he needs for the Stargate coordinates. 

The dad slipped and the weight of the pole was too much for his ankle.

But why overlay the two so frantically if unrelated?