Demolish Moat Cailin and break up the North

[Vaegon the dragonless]

On 9/10/2022 at 8:49 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

1. Moat Cailin is not an effective barrier against dragons. 
2. The North is not valuable and the only people who harass them are the Ironborn and the Wildlings. 

You still need a army to occupie the land, and they're is two ways in the north, the sea wich becomes difficult in winter and automn because of Storms. And passing Moat Cailin, if you want to hold the North you have to hold Moat Cailin, and you need the crannogmen to be on your side or they will make it hell on earth. 

The North is not very valuable true, but it as quite a bit of farmland, qure ut is not has good as down south but its size and sheer population make's it quite a prize. Adding to that alot of Wood, Fur animals and most likely a certains amount of minerals. The North is not the most valuable place but it is not exactly worthless.

[Darth Sidious]

Most folks are not interested in conquering the north. It would not bring much in the way of tax revenues. It’s a dismal land. Though it would be good to break the north apart into several smaller kingdoms to keep the Starks weak. What is even better is to keep the Starks down. Don’t let them get back on their feet to cause any more trouble. You do that by marrying one of the girls to a boy from a minor house. The lords are so weak now that resistance will be minimal. 

[BalerionTheCat]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:22 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Demolish the Iron Throne and break up the Seven Kingdoms! The Targaryens are nothing but troublemakers.

I believe the story is going that way. The Iron Throne is nothing but trouble. And most harm comes from those fighting for it. Whatever the house.

[Bowen 747]

On 9/7/2022 at 12:56 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The ruler on the Iron Throne should consider demolishing Moat Cailin. I would also break up the North and give more of it to the River lords.  The Starks rebelled twice in a period of less than 20 years. They are clearly troublemakers.  

Those pesky Starks    if the decision came up for discussion years ago.  Viserys would have done so if he had come into power.  

 

[Craving Peaches]

11 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

Viserys would have done so if he had come into power.  

How could he achieve this? Without dragons he can't circumvent Moat Cailin in the first place, so how can he demolish it? I am assuming the North won't just bow to his command and demolish one of their most strategic castles. There would most likely be conflict given Viserys' personality. If he beats the Northern army they can retreat behind the still intact Moat Cailin meaning he would have to try and land troops to take it from the north, the Northerners would bleed him every step of the way and depending on the season he would loose men to starvation, frostbite etc.

[StarkTullies]

On 9/7/2022 at 12:56 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The ruler on the Iron Throne should consider demolishing Moat Cailin. I would also break up the North and give more of it to the River lords.  The Starks rebelled twice in a period of less than 20 years. They are clearly troublemakers.  

First, "the ruler on the Iron Throne" rebelled the first time the Starks rebelled too, so they are half as "guilty" as the Starks.  Of course the Lannisters didn't rebel at the beginning; instead they waited to chose the winning side and then sacked Kings Landing and murdered royal babies.  The "ruler on the Iron Throne" (not Tommen, but the Lannisters in general) are bigger "troublemakers" than the Starks ever were.

Second, if the Starks deserve to lose the land they ruled for thousands of years because of those two rebellions, it makes no sense to give it to the Riverland lords.  Both times the Starks rebelled, the Riverlands rebelled with them.

Third, the Lannisters gave the North's rule to someone else already: the Boltons.

Last, the Starks were 100% justified in both rebellions.  Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't going to change their mind by anything I have to say about that though, so I won't.

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

On 9/7/2022 at 12:56 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The ruler on the Iron Throne should consider demolishing Moat Cailin. I would also break up the North and give more of it to the River lords.  The Starks rebelled twice in a period of less than 20 years. They are clearly troublemakers.  

The Lannisters were planning for Tyrion to marry Sansa and give themselves the north.  Should Daenerys or Aegon come to power, yes, that should be one of their considerations, depending on whether the Starks supported or opposed them.  It's not an issue for Daenerys because she has the dragons.  Moat Cailin is not even an inconvenience if you have dragons.  It will hinder a conventional army though. It is a definite must-do for Aegon. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

16 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

 

Last, the Starks were 100% justified in both rebellions.  Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't going to change their mind by anything I have to say about that though, so I won't.

We do disagree. We will continue to disagree on most topics concerning the Targaryens and the Starks. : )

 

[TheLastWolf]

14 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

We do disagree. We will continue to disagree on most topics concerning the Targaryens and the Starks. : )

Closest to a confession we're gonna get

[astarkchoice]

On 9/10/2022 at 7:49 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

1. Moat Cailin is not an effective barrier against dragons. 
2. The North is not valuable and the only people who harass them are the Ironborn and the Wildlings. 

1) only a factor if you own a few. Even then theres the neck with its crannogmen to stop any occupying force preventing its rebuilding.

 

If you are on dragonback theres also the issue of those nasty lil posion  crannog arrows  catching you , or you getting killed on the ground as the dragon will need a rest traversing the vast north and thats before we talk flying in icy  bad weather or your beast being warged!!!

 

2) its as valuable as  any other region ( bar the reach ) the land may not be as productive as the warmer south but theres soo much of it to balance that out.!!!

[Ring3r]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:56 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The ruler on the Iron Throne should consider demolishing Moat Cailin. I would also break up the North and give more of it to the River lords.  The Starks rebelled twice in a period of less than 20 years. They are clearly troublemakers.  

I'm a newbie, although I've been lurking here for half a decade......but....no?  Is this one of those posts intentionally being controversial to get people talking?  I feel like it is.  Which, yeah, cool.  Any conversation is good conversation!

Moat Cailin is basically a lookout post at the border of a swamp controlled by very scary people who will poison you for giggles.  Demolishing it would likely result in anyone trying to move south being shot with poop-dipped arrows.  In a world without antibiotics, that's not how I'd choose to go.  I subscribe to Tyrion's "how I'd like to die."

And then....the Starks didn't just rebel twice in 20 years.  Technically, sure, but the first time, they rebelled because there was an insane man in charge and he burnt their heir to death for fun.  The second time, they rebelled because another insane man who killed the head of their household on a whim and held their daughter hostage.

Tywin was right - the North is too big to hold.

[Stenkarazine]

Alternatively a wise king would rebuild extensively Moat Cailin and use it a royal citadel against any Northern invasion.

Come to think of this, it is surprising that no Targaryen king ever thought of erecting "royal fortresses" across the Realm: Harrenhal obviously comes to mind. Time and again the kings had the opportunity to seize it for themselves but they kept granting it to a new family. I guess it is a by-product of the obvious "medieval stasis" at work in GRRM's universe, but it makes the Targaryens quite dumb.

Ideally, a strong Iron Throne should be in direct control of: Moat Cailin, the Twins, Harrenhal, the Bloody Gate, plus some other royal arsenal in the south along the Mander. 

[Craving Peaches]

8 minutes ago, Stenkarazine said:

Alternatively a wise king would rebuild extensively Moat Cailin and use it a royal citadel against any Northern invasion.

I thought Moat Cailin only worked from the South though?

[Stenkarazine]

7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I thought Moat Cailin only worked from the South though?

Yes, but I guess one could rebuild it in such way that it could also serve against the North. That should be the first item on King Edric's list after he gets the Iron Throne at end of the series. 

[Craving Peaches]

3 minutes ago, Stenkarazine said:

Yes, but I guess one could rebuild it in such way that it could also serve against the North. That should be the first item on King Edric's list after he gets the Iron Throne at end of the series. 

I have found another supporter of King Edric Baratheon, First of His Name! Praise the Seven!

[Stenkarazine]

34 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I have found another supporter of King Edric Baratheon, First of His Name! Praise the Seven!

Well, it just makes sense, doesn't it ?

Once Tommen, Stannis and Aegon VI are dead, and then Danearys gets murdered by her bastard lover Snow (if the show GoT is right on this), Edric Storm is the only candidate left. He is the son of the last undisputed king of Westeros, whose reign was quite peaceful compared to what came after. If I were a Westerosi lord, I would see Edric's claim as the best chance to bring back peace to the Realm. 

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Stenkarazine said:

Well, it just makes sense, doesn't it ?

Once Tommen, Stannis and Aegon VI are dead, and then Danearys gets murdered by her bastard lover Snow (if the show GoT is right on this), Edric Storm is the only candidate left. He is the son of the last undisputed king of Westeros, whose reign was quite peaceful compared to what came after. If I were a Westerosi lord, I would see Edric's claim as the best chance to bring back peace to the Realm. 

I support Edric for those reasons as well as the fact that he seems to be the closest thing Renly had to an heir. He also shows good characteristics for a ruler such as charm. If blood matters he has noble blood on both sides.

I'm in an odd situation because House Baratheon is my favourite but I really don't like Stannis at all.

[Corvo the Crow]

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[TheLastWolf]

Gendry please ahem

[Nevets]

37 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Gendry please ahem

Who's Gendry?  In world, that is.

I don't like Edric Storm for it - among other things, he's too minor a character - but Gendry makes no sense at all.