Demolish Moat Cailin and break up the North

[TheLastWolf]

10 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Who's Gendry?  In world, that is.

A gallant Knight, a would be hero to the masses (gut says) if he isnt one already to us readers.

11 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I don't like Edric Storm for it - among other things, he's too minor a character - but Gendry makes no sense at all.

It will make sense trust me, my rare intuition has never failed me.

[Nevets]

5 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

A gallant Knight, a would be hero to the masses (gut says) if he isnt one already to us readers.

It will make sense trust me, my rare intuition has never failed me.

If so, he'd better get a move on.  If he has any leadership skills, fighting skills, tactical knowledge, political savvy, or anything else that would make him qualified for king, or even local lordship, he's been very effective at hiding it.  He's a nice guy, and I like him, but leadership material he's not.

[TheLastWolf]

4 minutes ago, Nevets said:

If so, he'd better get a move on.  If he has any leadership skills, fighting skills, tactical knowledge, political savvy, or anything else that would make him qualified for king, or even local lordship, he's been very effective at hiding it.  He's a nice guy, and I like him, but leadership material he's not.

Except the political shit he obviously has the rest to have survived with the BwB and the few scenes we've seen too reinforces that plus gallantry. And Ned wasn't any savvy, forgetting his unlucky end, you can do worse than Gendry's unsavvyness.

[TheLastWolf]

 

So we dont derail

Oops forgot archived, never mind we aren't gonna say anything new.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

The North is not a desirable place.  Besides, moat cailin is not an effective defense against dragons.  The Starks are not that smart and yet even Torrhen knew he had no chance against the Targaryens.  He could garrison moat cailin with all the crannogmen and northmen.  It would not have mattered to the dragons.  The dragons would drop flames and burn the foliage and the crannogmen. 

[Stenkarazine]

Yes but I think we are talking about a scenario where dragons have, again, disappeared (ie. after Danearys gets regicided by Snow). 

Whoever eventually sits on the Iron Throne, the North must be brought to heel. So holding Moat Cailin as a collateral seems mandatory.

Another option would be to split it in two separate kingdoms, each with its own paramount lord: for instance the Karstarks would be ruling over the northern half from Karhold and the Manderlys on the southern half from White Arbor.

Or just carve it up equally between the Ironborn and the King beyond the Wall. 

 

 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Trying to hold up Moat Cailin against the Northmen themselves is just a silly idea. 

Not only the castle is far more vulnerable from north than from south, as shown already in the books, but it would be a lost cause to try holding it with the crannogmen being against you.

[Stenkarazine]

Indeed. It would require arduous, extensive work: rebuild and develop the fortifications so that they can now be useful against the north, drain the swamps, and exterminate all Crannogmen. 

If this requires too much effort, then an easier solution is to confiscate the Twins for the Crown. 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

4 hours ago, Stenkarazine said:

Indeed. It would require arduous, extensive work: rebuild and develop the fortifications so that they can now be useful against the north, drain the swamps, and exterminate all Crannogmen. 

If this requires too much effort, then an easier solution is to confiscate the Twins for the Crown. 

Draining an entire region that's made of swamps, bogs, quicksands and Waters filled with snakes, lizard-lions, bugs and poisons is hardly something that's possible. 

Nor is trying to exterminate the Crannogmen who know their region and its defensive advantages like their pocket, and are masters of guérilla warfare.

[Stenkarazine]

15 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Draining an entire region that's made of swamps, bogs, quicksands and Waters filled with snakes, lizard-lions, bugs and poisons is hardly something that's possible. 

Nor is trying to exterminate the Crannogmen who know their region and its defensive advantages like their pocket, and are masters of guérilla warfare.

Damn. Then the Seven Kingdoms really can do nothing to prevent the North from declaring their independence and/or invading the South whenever they see fit.

Goading the Ironborn and the Free Folk into periodically invading the North might be the ticket then. 

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Stenkarazine said:

and/or invading the South whenever they see fit.

I'm sure they could do something about that. Have marches in the Riverlands. It would be like the Scottish/English border.

But it is difficult for them to send troops up North if the region tries to secede. What I think would work better is what you suggested in the other thread, the Crown should use their naval advantage to blockade Whiteharbour, cut off shipments to the North. And encourage Ironborn and Freefolk to invade, as you said. Make it more preferable for the North to remain a part/become part of the Seven Kingdoms again.

[Stenkarazine]

9 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I'm sure they could do something about that. Have marches in the Riverlands. It would be like the Scottish/English border.

But it is difficult for them to send troops up North if the region tries to secede. What I think would work better is what you suggested in the other thread, the Crown should use their naval advantage to blockade Whiteharbour, cut off shipments to the North. And encourage Ironborn and Freefolk to invade, as you said. Make it more preferable for the North to remain a part/become part of the Seven Kingdoms again.

We are of the same mind. "Septemtrio delenda est", as said Lord Cato of House Porcia.  

 

[Bowen 747]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:40 AM, Stenkarazine said:

Indeed. It would require arduous, extensive work: rebuild and develop the fortifications so that they can now be useful against the north, drain the swamps, and exterminate all Crannogmen. 

If this requires too much effort, then an easier solution is to confiscate the Twins for the Crown. 

The first attack of the North may have to be done by sea.  The Ironborn do it all the time.  Attack Moat Cailin from the north side and take out the Crannogmen. 

[BlackLightning]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:41 AM, Stenkarazine said:

Well, it just makes sense, doesn't it ?

Once Tommen, Stannis and Aegon VI are dead, and then Danearys gets murdered by her bastard lover Snow (if the show GoT is right on this), Edric Storm is the only candidate left. He is the son of the last undisputed king of Westeros, whose reign was quite peaceful compared to what came after. If I were a Westerosi lord, I would see Edric's claim as the best chance to bring back peace to the Realm. 

Sorry

Edric Storm (or rather Baratheon as I expect that he will have been legitimized by then) is a good match but I'm Team Stark.

If Jon Snow is a trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark (which he has to be in order for the narrative to make sense) and thus the true heir to the Iron Throne, then Bran Stark and his siblings (but mostly Bran) would have a very strong claim. Especially if all other really strong claimants (namely Daenerys) are all dead.

 

You wouldn't have to worry about policing and monitoring the northerners with a Stark king who also so happens to be a skinchanger and a greenseer.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

On 10/9/2022 at 4:31 AM, Bowen 747 said:

The first attack of the North may have to be done by sea.  The Ironborn do it all the time.  Attack Moat Cailin from the north side and take out the Crannogmen. 

The Ironborn don't do it all the time, just this time during ACOK. And taking out the Crannogmen is far easier said than done.

[Bowen Marsh]

Moat Cailin presents inconvenience but it will not stop a determined and disciplined army.  It will just result in a lot of casualties for the army that is passing.  This is because most soldiers in Westeros are not armored.  Most are regular people, farmers, herders, and the like.  Even armor can be penetrated.  But if there is a will, there is a way. 

Moat Cailin is easy to destroy with dragon fire.  Dividing the north is not a problem.  I am sure Roose, Barbrey, and the other nobles would happily accept such a proposal.  I would also burn the weirwoods if they prove to be a threat. 

[Craving Peaches]

6 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Dividing the north is not a problem.  I am sure Roose, Barbrey, and the other nobles would happily accept such a proposal.  I would also burn the weirwoods if they prove to be a threat.

Lord Steward, being from the North yourself, I would assume you know better than this.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

I’ve seen some trash takes on this forum but this may be the whackiest one. I would not want a take like this on record. I’d find it hard to take anyone’s opinion seriously if they think this.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:08 PM, Bowen Marsh said:

Moat Cailin presents inconvenience but it will not stop a determined and disciplined army.  It will just result in a lot of casualties for the army that is passing.  This is because most soldiers in Westeros are not armored.  Most are regular people, farmers, herders, and the like.  Even armor can be penetrated.  But if there is a will, there is a way. 

Moat Cailin is easy to destroy with dragon fire.  Dividing the north is not a problem.  I am sure Roose, Barbrey, and the other nobles would happily accept such a proposal.  I would also burn the weirwoods if they prove to be a threat. 

Nearly every single army we've seen is made up of fairly standard arms and armor, including the armies we seen marching through MC. Plenty of chainmail and polearms for the infantry, let alone the cavalry and nobility.