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Ukraine 19: In HARMS Way


Werthead
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Hahaha, you know what I find hilarious? The fact that the EU has finally, finally, cancelled tourist visas! I said that should happen what, in the first week? And that the Russian tourists should be shipped back to Russia?

And I got a ducking (thank you spell check) shit storm for that, and a certain asshat on this board made sneering superior comments about my humanity. Someone without a scrap of humanity in their body. And I got piled on. Because, duh, Moscow was being bombed and innocents were dying, amirite? Too dangerous for tourists to go home, huh?

My lord, if the US ever invaded Canada you’d all just shake your heads and talk about the poor innocent American tourists spending money in your countries, right? And how they should be allowed to stay in comfort while my country got trampled on, right?

Oh, and y’all thought the shooting would be over in 6 weeks or 8, tops, with Ukrainians victorious. Lol!

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I wonder if the distribution of armament for the newly mobilized troops will be like some of the Red Army tactics in WWII. When they get to the frontline there will be one rifle per every other soldier, and your buddy gets the bullets. Now charge the enemy position and you will get mowed down by our machine guns if you retreat.

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1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Another interesting tidbit that needs confirmation:

 

Good thing that Russia is a tiny country with easily-closed and easily surveilled land borders, and it's completely impossible to drive east for 4,000 miles with a couple of months camping gear and supplies.

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20 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

The fact that the EU has finally, finally, cancelled tourist visas! I said that should happen what, in the first week? And that the Russian tourists should be shipped back to Russia?

And I got a ducking (thank you spell check) shit storm for that,

 

If your comment had been to cancel tourist visas there'd have been a very different discussion. You got a shitstorm for saying this:

 

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I’d deport everyone with Russian citizenship  out of Canada unless they could prove they weren’t Putin supporters.



Since that isn't what's happening here- I'm on holiday now but I'd be very surprised to find out that my Russian co-worker, resident in Germany but very much a Russian, had been shipped off to Moscow in my absence- I'm not really sure how right you've been proven. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Good thing that Russia is a tiny country with easily-closed and easily surveilled land borders, and it's completely impossible to drive east for 4,000 miles with a couple of months camping gear and supplies.

True… but… camping through winter In Siberia seems like a chilling prospect.

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I'm ever more glad that my friend from Buratya got out when he did (and, since he's still in danger of having to go home, I'm going to take the opportunity to link to the update of his progress because he still needs help and anything anyone can do, including sharing this on to others, would be much appreciated). As much as it's fun to joke, given what it took for him to leave back in March, if he had to do it now - and anyone trying the same now- would find it much, much harder. 

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43 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Good thing that Russia is a tiny country with easily-closed and easily surveilled land borders, and it's completely impossible to drive east for 4,000 miles with a couple of months camping gear and supplies.

Since Decathlon moved out of Russia in June, the nearest open shop with camping gear may be in Ukraine :idea:

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This is so moronic if actually true rather than propaganda to try to stop the rallies. Why they would want to fill their ranks with people vehemently opposed to war baffles me.

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While the government has promised that only those with military experience would be called up, in practice nothing legally prevents those without it from also being enlisted. In response, the Spring youth democratic movement called for renewed demonstrations against mobilisation in the centres of Moscow, St Petersburg and all Russian cities.

“Vladimir Putin has just announced a partial mobilisation in Russia. This means that thousands of Russian men – our fathers, brothers and husbands – will be thrown into the meat grinder of war,” Spring wrote on their Instagram page.

“Now war will truly come to every home and every family. The authorities used to say that only ‘professionals’ were fighting and that they would win. It turned out that they were not winning – and prisoners began to be recruited to the front. The war is no longer ‘out there’ – it has come to our country, our homes, for our relatives.

The deputies and officials who daily yelled about the need for mobilisation will remain in their warm chairs, alive and well. We believe that they should be mobilised and sent to Ukraine – let them die for their sick fantasies, and not send ordinary guys to their deaths.”

As if anticipating this, pro-Kremlin commentator Ilya Remeslo wrote on his Telegram that “reliable sources” informed him that those taking part in “illegal rallies” would be the first to be mobilised.

“They will check the documents immediately on the spot, identify them, detain them and send them to the internal affairs agencies,” he claimed. “Then, together with military registration and recruitment, the draftee’s category will be determined. Those who do not immediately fit the first category [of 300,000 experienced soldiers] will be registered for subsequent conscription.”

“So, we are waiting for you, dear hamsters,” he added. “It’s time to serve.”

More than a thousand protestors have now been detained in the last few hours. Hopefully the mobilisation is what finally breaks Putin. If not the question is where to next. More "soldiers" might cause the war to drag on and cost more lives overall, but just before winter seems like really bad timing for Russia. And you feel it will be a lack of equipment that will severely cap overall effectiveness. The big danger is whether he decides to use nukes and if so whether the others in the chain comply.

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The point of using protesters as cannon fodder is not to get good soldiers, it's to punish and discourage protesting.  There's a reason why the anti-war protests are almost entirely women. 

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Another big win for Ukraine morale wise - a number of mariupol defenders were swapped in a prisoner exchange with Russia. Notably medvedchuk was returned, despite Russia saying earlier he would explicitly not be.

In addition to that, a whole bunch of foreign fighters were returned.

 

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Yup, the British POWs who were reportedly going to be executed were returned as well.

Bit of a weird time to be offering the carrot as well as the stick, but that's part of the weird Russian messaging.

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My further reading said that turkey was the main negotiator here and that a number of the mariupol defenders will not be returned to Ukraine but will be guests of turkey until the end of the war. 

So may be less about Russia doing anything nice and more about Russia appeasing turkey in some way. 

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Russian Telegram has gone into meltdown about this. Some troops on the line saying if they're in Ukraine to fight "Nazis," why the hell are the most obvious examples of the Nazis (noting that in reality the Azov Battalion was mostly purged of its far-right elements some years ago, but some dubious characters remained) being allowed to leave? It seems to make a mockery of Russia's justifications for the conflict.

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5 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Russian Telegram has gone into meltdown about this. Some troops on the line saying if they're in Ukraine to fight "Nazis," why the hell are the most obvious examples of the Nazis (noting that in reality the Azov Battalion was mostly purged of its far-right elements some years ago, but some dubious characters remained) being allowed to leave? It seems to make a mockery of Russia's justifications for the conflict.

Perhaps they should… question the Russian dictator’s motives?  Just maybe…

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Russian Telegram has gone into meltdown about this. Some troops on the line saying if they're in Ukraine to fight "Nazis," why the hell are the most obvious examples of the Nazis (noting that in reality the Azov Battalion was mostly purged of its far-right elements some years ago, but some dubious characters remained) being allowed to leave? It seems to make a mockery of Russia's justifications for the conflict.

They are even more upset about them being traded for Medvedchuk. I've seen mocking comments about "dying for Rodina and Medvedchuk".

I'm honestly not sure what value he even has left for Russia, other than perhaps personal one for Putin. Most of his money and property has been seized, and if he was planned to be a Vidkun Quisling there is zero chance of that happening now.

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10 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Hahaha, you know what I find hilarious? The fact that the EU has finally, finally, cancelled tourist visas! I said that should happen what, in the first week? And that the Russian tourists should be shipped back to Russia?

And I got a ducking (thank you spell check) shit storm for that, and a certain asshat on this board made sneering superior comments about my humanity. Someone without a scrap of humanity in their body. And I got piled on. Because, duh, Moscow was being bombed and innocents were dying, amirite? Too dangerous for tourists to go home, huh?

My lord, if the US ever invaded Canada you’d all just shake your heads and talk about the poor innocent American tourists spending money in your countries, right? And how they should be allowed to stay in comfort while my country got trampled on, right?

Oh, and y’all thought the shooting would be over in 6 weeks or 8, tops, with Ukrainians victorious. Lol!

Do you think American draft dodgers who fled to Canada should have been deported back to the US? I imagine a lot of Russians abroad these days are staying out to avoid being conscripted and sent to die for Putin's vanity. I'm very wary of forcing people to go back there. 

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1 hour ago, Darzin said:

Do you think American draft dodgers who fled to Canada should have been deported back to the US? I imagine a lot of Russians abroad these days are staying out to avoid being conscripted and sent to die for Putin's vanity. I'm very wary of forcing people to go back there. 

Try to concentrate on the phrase “tourist visa”. The EU has cancelled tourist visas, not refugee applications.

eta: and I really have to add this. Don’t even fucking dream about comparing Canada and the US during the Vietnam war with Russia and the EU today. Canada and the US had a border that was a sieve. You could just pack up and move across the border with relative ease. There were no visas required to visit and there are still no visas required. American parents drove their sons across the border and set them up at school or in apartments. Others hopped on the Greyhound bus and came across the border without a problem. Americans weren’t Cold War enemies. WW II vets railed against draft dodgers but most people were sympathetic, although there was also a pretty strong feeling that you were supposed to support your country when your country asked you to serve. And in the US people were marching, protesting and rioting, and thousands were getting arrested and thrown into jail. Russians need to get off their asses and pressure their government just like Americans did. 

And in any event, if the US reinstituted the draft and invaded some country, Americans could not do the same as they did in the 60s. The world has changed in 60 years. There is no open, sieve-like border anymore.

Edited by Fragile Bird
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