Larry of the Lawn Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Ideal certainly. 2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: It’d be really nice if the only reason why people wouldn’t join up for a cause is because it’s a bad cause. Why should you be able to force someone to go to war for you? In you OP you called conscription a necessary evil. Why is it necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: It’d be really nice if the only reason why people wouldn’t join up for a cause is because it’s a bad cause. It’d be really nice if the only causes people could be forced to fight and die for were ‘good’ causes, but I suspect that that’s a much less likely fantasy than the one you’re musing on here. Power players are usually so because they like power…the getting, having and using of it…and that rarely combines with ‘good’ causes for long. But more importantly, conscription is a tool to be wielded by the powerful, and even if somehow it’s first actually used in a good cause, that tool remains in their hands long after w/e good cause has gone…and wield it they almost certainly will continue to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Larry of the Lake said: In you OP you called conscription a necessary evil. Why is it necessary? Because the alternatives may be worse—example slavery being proliferated and/ or genocide. Think the American civil war and the allies in WW2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Because the alternatives may be worse—example slavery being proliferated and/ or genocide. Think the American civil war and the allies in WW2 I think you'd need to show that conscription was necessary for those to work. Especially with the American Civil War, where you could literally pay someone to fight in your place. But the obvious flaw with that idea is that conscription isn't just used for whatever noble cause you think is important. What about the people that are drafted to do genocide or proliferate slavery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 55 minutes ago, James Arryn said: It’d be really nice if the only causes people could be forced to fight and die for were ‘good’ causes Yep. 55 minutes ago, James Arryn said: but I suspect that that’s a much less likely fantasy than the one you’re musing on here. Usually conscription isn’t justified. 55 minutes ago, James Arryn said: Power players are usually so because they like power…the getting, having and using of it…and that rarely combines with ‘good’ causes for long. Eh, I think this is oddly naive, the belief the best or preferable outcomes come with a rejection of power. 55 minutes ago, James Arryn said: But more importantly, conscription is a tool to be wielded by the powerful So are taxes and eminent domain. 55 minutes ago, James Arryn said: even if somehow it’s first actually used in a good cause, that tool remains in their hands long after w/e good cause has gone…and wield it they almost certainly will continue to do. Yep, better watchful to be sure it’s used appropriately in times of crisis— Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said: I think you'd need to show that conscription was necessary for those to work. Would you take the lack of necessary volunteers before conscription was enact Or expanded? 3 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said: Especially with the American Civil War, where you could literally pay someone to fight in your place. I don’t see this contradicting a need for conscription. 5 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said: But the obvious flaw with that idea is that conscription isn't just used for whatever noble cause you think is important. Point to a post where I ever stated it did. 5 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said: What about the people that are drafted to do genocide or proliferate slavery? That’s bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Would you take the lack of necessary volunteers before conscription was enact Or expanded? . Not really? I guess this depends on your government and whether or not you trust them to only send you off to Good War, and I certainly don't. I'd say the odds are they are sending you to a shitty one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbigski Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Really it depends on the country. In general I'm against. But if you happen to live in a unicorn sort of representative republic that's subjected to unfair aggression then sure. Defensive wars, sure, still problematic in practice a lot of the time but shades of gray. Offensive wars, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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