[Spoilers] Episode 104 Discussion

[Ran]

Book spoilers and episode discussion here.

[RumHam]

Did they put the episode up early? I went on at 8:56 and was surprised it was already up. 

[RumHam]

That was Bloody Ben at the start? 

The dagger stuff is so...prequely. 

Otherwise I think it might have been the best episode yet. I like how they've made just about everyone more sympathetic. I did not go into this expecting to have sympathy for Alicent Hightower or Christen Cole.

I assume Daemon lied in an effort to get Viserys to agree to let him marry Rhaenyra? ...Odd tactic! And then you have to wonder why he hesitated to sleep with her. 

 

[Corvinus85]

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

That was Bloody Ben at the start? 

At first I assumed the same, but Bloody Ben is 13 during the Dance, so he would be only a child at this time, if even born. So it ought to be Sam Blackwood. But I did like how they showed the never ending feud between the Blackwoods and the Brackens which certainly was reignited now.

 

[RumHam]

Just now, Corvinus85 said:

At first I assumed the same, but Bloody Ben is 13 during the Dance, so he would be only a child at this time, if even born. So it ought to be Sam Blackwood. But I did like how they showed the never ending feud between the Blackwoods and the Brackens which certainly was reignited now.

 

Oh duh I feel dumb now. I'm always bad at the timeline but Rhaenyra hasn't even had her kids yet!

[butterweedstrover]

I guess there were technically jokes in this episode. A dick joke to be more specific. 

Rhaenyra fans are crumbling. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

Rhaenyra fans are crumbling. 

Ooh, do tell. . . 

[zajaz]

If the roles in the Rhaenyra / Criston scene were reversed (Rhaenyra was an old maid, and Criston a young prince), wouldn't the scene seem kinda... problematic?

Edited September 12, 2022 by zajaz

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The scene between Daemon and Rhaenyra was really… unpleasant.  The actress playing Rhaenyra looks so young compared to Matt Smith.

[Fez]

A well done episode I thought, with better writing than the previous ones. Although it also felt too slow moving in terms of plot advancement. But a fun watch nonetheless.

[RumHam]

5 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

I guess there were technically jokes in this episode. A dick joke to be more specific. 

Rhaenyra fans are crumbling. 

I thought her sick burn on Lord Dondarrian was pretty amusing.

[butterweedstrover]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Ooh, do tell. . . 

She made fun of Sam Blackwood and left him to die. Not a very nice thing to do. 

Also, the episode started with some ageism coming from her end. 

[Lord of Brewtown]

My initial thoughts on this episode are that the pacing just seemed a bit off.   I didn't particularly dislike anything, and in fact really liked the sneaking into the city.   Nothing stood out as bad; but, with so much stuff to cover in so little time; I'm just not sure this episode covered/accomplished enough from a characterization perspective/delivered the bang for your buck that is required when things "slow" down in an episode like this.  

My opinion could change after I have time to think on this after a few days.   Again, I actually liked most of the episode, it just felt like a lot of screen time to accomplish what it accomplished.  

[C.T. Phipps]

7 minutes ago, zajaz said:

If the roles in the Rhaenyra / Criston scene were reversed (Rhaenyra was an old maid, and Criston a young prince), wouldn't the scene seem kinda... problematic?

I mean, romance dramas are full of handsome rich dudes and their beautiful young working class girls.

And in RL, it's usually more like Viserys and Alicent.

[Corvinus85]

OK, the episode was pretty slow, but once again top notch acting and had great character interactions. I wish a little more had happened and while I appreciate that the show took a direction for these events, I feel that the episode could have benefited from the presence of Mushroom and Septon Eustace just for the hell of it.

This was also the darkest episode so far, but I supposed it fit with the theme of people doing things in secret.

Great to see the great hall of Storm's End. We finally get to see Storm's End since GoT skipped it.

In the scene where Viserys has his knife at Daemon's throat when he's on the floor, it looked like Matt Smith had a burn scar below his collar bone. Is that meant to show the scar from the fire arrow he took in the last episode? If so, that's great attention to detail.

Yeah, I would say that this episode did a good job at moving pieces on the board, except the movements were incremental. Almost like taking the baby steps to ready oneself before the plunge.

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

And in RL, it's usually more like Viserys and Alicent.

Speak for yourself. 

[butterweedstrover]

Yeah, it was a good episode. Still dark and self serious but with some good lines of dialogue peppered in. 

[briantw]

Laughed out loud at Cole's face when Rhaenyra walks by him the second time when he had no idea she left her room.

[IFR]

I thought it was quite a good episode. The episode provided some additional depth to many characters, and was a pretty engaging drama.

I find myself liking several characters at this point. Alicient, Rhaenyra, Viserys, Daemon, Otto, and Cole are all well done and engaging to watch.

This kind of development will be especially important later on in the series.

Good episode.

[The Bard of Banefort]

As funny as it was to hear Alicent say "you fucked Daemon," the writing was a lot weaker this episode. I was rolling my eyes when Viserys' speech about his father's death just kept going on. The one guy calling someone a "dumb c*nt" felt like it was trying to channel the Hound/Bronn and falling flat on its face.

The extended conversations in Valyrian between Rhaenyra and Daemon felt really excessive and pointless. We get it, they're Targaryens. There's no reason for them not to talk in the common tongue when no one else is around.

I watched the BTS for a change, and I was surprised to hear them confirm that a) Daemon doesn't care about Rhaenyra and just wanted to get back at Viserys, b) Daemon is abusing Rhaenyra, and c) Rhaenyra had sex with Criston Cole solely because he was the only person around. The director made Daemon sound even more sociopathic by saying that he lost interest once he realized she was into it.

To tie this back to the writing, both Daemon and Rhaenyra's writing felt inconsistent. Rhaenyra immediately pleading with Alicent instead of starting off cold and offended felt out-of-character for her, and after the writers tried so hard to make us look at Daemon and go "awww, he does have a heart!" this felt like a sudden switch back to the source material.

Rhaenyra is a selfish, unpleasant, spoiled brat who complains all the time about her "duties" yet is never shown actually doing them, which would be fine except I know we're gonna soon be bombarded with think pieces about how much of a Yass Kween she is because she enjoyed having sex.

Speaking of which, the sex scene between her and Criston was very good, although I would have preferred that their relationship was built up a little more before that. GOT seems to think you either have to have full nudity or no sex scenes whatsoever--despite TV shows having sex scenes without full nudity for decades now--so it was nice to see them finally figure out how pull that one off.

Watching Viserys plow Alicent was extremely unpleasant. She looked dead. Were we supposed to interpret that as a rape?